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Forums - Movies & TV - ! ! ! Batman V Superman - New trailer from Comic-Con

d21lewis said:
Anybody here ever read Kingdom Come? Great story. Like a lot of stories, it reveals that Batman never trusted Superman. Batman is like a good Lex Luthor. Here the pinnacle of what a human can be meanwhile this alien is beloved and inspiring.

They didn't fight in that story but Batman did (appear to *wink, wink*) join up with the villains to take Superman down--along with other heroes. Why? They were too powerful and caused too many casualties.

Best superhero graphics novel ever.

The whole thing is paced, looks and feels like an actual movie.

Plus, it is illustrated by Alex Ross. You can't really get any better than this when it comes to comics visuals. =)



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spurgeonryan said:
But Mr. Weicom, because of his life on Earth, a entire city was leveled! For all we know millions died because of this Zod thing. Not to mention that small town that was leveled and whatever happened with the other Earth changing machines.

The whole world saw the threat and aftermath of what happened with him involved. Unles a camera saw him break the neck and choose humans over himself, very little will understand the truth or even know what happened. Plus history and the news and government classification has a way of mixing up the past.


Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense within the world of the film.  I just think it's a shitty basis for a Superman story.  A story can be logical (although Man of Steel was completely illogical in many other respects) but still suck.



d21lewis said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm still not digging this "protect a world that hates and fears him" thing they got going on.  I mean, I get why people might act like that, but it's simply never been part of the superman experience.


You don't read enough Superman comics or watch the old Justice League cartoon, then....


In what stories is Superman hated by the public, besides alternate reality stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice?



JWeinCom said:
d21lewis said:


You don't read enough Superman comics or watch the old Justice League cartoon, then....


In what stories is Superman hated by the public, besides alternate reality stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice?


Not hated.  Feared.  There was one where he took on a villain called Black Rock by using his heart vision at full power and caused a lot of collateral damage.  People were like " It's like he doesn't even care about us! "

Before Infinite Crisis, he was mind controlled into beating the holy fuck out of Batman by Max Lord.

He turned his army of Superman robots loose on the earth and the JLA had to stop him.

In the JLA cartoon, LLuthor made him fight Captain Marvel ( Shazam) destroying a city and turning public opinion against him.

 

I could go on.  DC (and Marvel)/have been doing this "Fear our heroes" thing since forever.  Superman isn't immune.  There was also a cult that worshipped him and when he died, they worshipped his successors.

All canon (/except the cartoon reference).  That's why it always pisses me off when people say Superman is boring.  The comics are amazing!



d21lewis said:
JWeinCom said:


In what stories is Superman hated by the public, besides alternate reality stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice?


Not hated.  Feared.  There was one where he took on a villain called Black Rock by using his heart vision at full power and caused a lot of collateral damage.  People were like " It's like he doesn't even care about us! "

Before Infinite Crisis, he was mind controlled into beating the holy fuck out of Batman by Max Lord.

He turned his army of Superman robots loose on the earth and the JLA had to stop him.

In the JLA cartoon, LLuthor made him fight Captain Marvel ( Shazam) destroying a city and turning public opinion against him.

 

I could go on.  DC (and Marvel)/have been doing this "Fear our heroes" thing since forever.  Superman isn't immune.  There was also a cult that worshipped him and when he died, they worshipped his successors.

All canon (/except the cartoon reference).  That's why it always pisses me off when people say Superman is boring.  The comics are amazing!

There is a difference between the scenarios you're mentioning, which seem to indicate mind control or manipulation aside from the black rock one, and in the movie where people hate and mistrust superman based on his actual actions.

And putting aside isolated instances, which do you think more accurately describes superman under most circumstances?

a) He is seen as a guardian, symbol of hope, and beloved by the masses. 

or

b) He is mistrusted, feared, and most people want him gone.

I'll admit that I don't read many DC comics, so my view may be flawed, but my understanding is Superman is generally well respected and loved by the public.  And the view of him as a protector, and the pressure on him to be perfect because of those expectations seem a bigger part of his character than isolated instances of bad PR.



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Right. Batman vs Superman. That makes perfect sense. I guess all anyone needs is a tricked out home gym and access to a bad-ass toolbelt and they too can take on the man of steel.
Silly premise in my opinion.
If you accept the canon of each character, the 'fight' seems idiotic.
Not to sure how they're going to work the story, but for the sake of continuity and just plain ole' common sense, it better be that Superman finds Batman sorta like a pest and doesn't actually want to hurt him, or even fight him for that matter, but just gently moves him out of the way in a 'get outta here kid, you're bothering me' kinda thing.



mornelithe said:
flagstaad said:
mornelithe said:

Well, in order to make this even remotely believable as a plot, they have to give Batman some kind of chance (absurd).  Even General Zod DITCHED his (superior than Earth metal) armor, in their final fight.  Unless Batman gets the drop on Superman (no chance), the believability of this story line lasting anything longer than the brief initial moment of aggression is idiotic.

Agreed with you. I think making the movie around that stupid fight is dumb as hell, make it a small skirmish like they did on the avengers or in Justice League: War, yes a lot of people want to see these 2 characters fight, but there is nothing at stake here, they will not kill each other, they will not even injure each other, and at the end they will be friends. They are both the good guys, Batman is smarter than to pick up a fight with someone who is helping people around the world, Superman (at least the one from the comics) is always trying to end things without a fight and will not battle just to see who is stronger.

Building a movie about a gritty comic of the 80's that is not part of the continuity does not make sense at all, and even in that comic the central part of the plot in NOT the stupid fight, there is another reason why they have to battle and even in that one Superman is trying to avoid it. Goyer is great writting many DC characters like Batman and Constantine, but he has no clue on how to handle Superman, he treats him like a 1 dimensional alien without any conection with his family or the world, that is almost stupid and has no real depth, he almost did not had any lines in MOS and it looks like is the same on this movie. Skipping it.

Woo, I have a supporter!  Hell yeah!  Agreed, both Batman and Superman are good people, and it's silly to think that when Superman doesn't crush Batman initially, that Bruce Wayne wouldn't stop to think about his course of action.  Neither Batman or Superman are idiots.

I think your not giving batman enough credit. He's referred to as the worlds greatest detective for a reason. The whole superman detecting voices he knows his mothers voice. Batman obviously speaks in a different tone when hes in batman "mode." The whole fighting part watch dark knight returns part 2. Its a much better story than this film im sure. Superman is asked by president regan to get rid of batman because hes doing a better job of protecting gotham than they (gov) are the us. So they duke it out and they know each other very well its a brawl and alot of tech is used though they are not equals batman (who is 55 at the time) beats up superman pretty good.



EVERY GAMERS WORST NIGHTMARE...THE TANGLING CABLES MONSTER!

            

       Coffee is for closers!

Batman v Superman: meh

Suicide Squad: hell no...



(Z->)90°-(E-N²W)90°t=1

 

 

JWeinCom said:
d21lewis said:


Not hated.  Feared.  There was one where he took on a villain called Black Rock by using his heart vision at full power and caused a lot of collateral damage.  People were like " It's like he doesn't even care about us! "

Before Infinite Crisis, he was mind controlled into beating the holy fuck out of Batman by Max Lord.

He turned his army of Superman robots loose on the earth and the JLA had to stop him.

In the JLA cartoon, LLuthor made him fight Captain Marvel ( Shazam) destroying a city and turning public opinion against him.

 

I could go on.  DC (and Marvel)/have been doing this "Fear our heroes" thing since forever.  Superman isn't immune.  There was also a cult that worshipped him and when he died, they worshipped his successors.

All canon (/except the cartoon reference).  That's why it always pisses me off when people say Superman is boring.  The comics are amazing!

There is a difference between the scenarios you're mentioning, which seem to indicate mind control or manipulation aside from the black rock one, and in the movie where people hate and mistrust superman based on his actual actions.

And putting aside isolated instances, which do you think more accurately describes superman under most circumstances?

a) He is seen as a guardian, symbol of hope, and beloved by the masses. 

or

b) He is mistrusted, feared, and most people want him gone.

I'll admit that I don't read many DC comics, so my view may be flawed, but my understanding is Superman is generally well respected and loved by the public.  And the view of him as a protector, and the pressure on him to be perfect because of those expectations seem a bigger part of his character than isolated instances of bad PR.


New 52 superman 

"The initial run of first issues show a universe in which superheroes have only appeared within the last five years and are viewed with suspicion and hostility,[84] with Superman andBatman being pursued by the police five years ago at the start of their careers.[84][85] In the present day, organizations such as the United Nations and the United States government seek to exploit and control the superheroes "

 Flash paradox he barely resembled himself too. Killed a bunch of people too.

 

Hes dc's golden boy though cant do no wrong. There is plenty of story arcs for just about anything out there. No reason to believe anyone cant act or do a certain thing.



EVERY GAMERS WORST NIGHTMARE...THE TANGLING CABLES MONSTER!

            

       Coffee is for closers!

People should go to YouTube and check out the "World's Finest" episode of the Superman cartoon (hopefully is there) to see a faithful Batman/Superman first encounter. Maybe it will relieve some doubts.