By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Source: NX "Is Definitely Not Aiming To Compete With PS4 On Horsepower"

AEGRO said:
Soundwave said:
I think the bottom line is Nintendo simply does not want to compete with Sony *and* Microsoft. If it was just Sony, that I think they could deal with. Sony is a much smaller company and there's much more room to be profitable even at no.2.

The N64 was a big money maker even at no.2 and that machine would've easily sold double (65-70 million units) if they had used CD-ROM instead versus the Playstation.

But Microsoft just makes the whole "go make a regular console Nintendo!" too untenable to Nintendo. There's not enough room for three consoles that basically all do the same thing and three companies all bidding for the same third party games.

It just leads into a rat race that isn't appealing to Nintendo because Microsoft can simply spend more money and then Nintendo has to match or respond somehow because that are in direct competition.

MS is the one that screwed up everything for Nintendo in the traditional console space, Apple is the one that screwed up everything with casuals for Nintendo. So that's two poisoned wells for them.


Is that why Microsoft with all the cash have won every gen? Oh wait!

 

Why is it that the company with the most struggles when it comes to finances is the one on top, with the most games, with the better games, with all the 3rd party support? Nintendo and Microsoft have more money than Sony, so?

That's not the point, the point is Nintendo doesn't like to compete in crowded markets. 

If doesn't matter if MS is winning or not, they have set the rules in a lot of ways for the industry by throwing cash around like it's going out of style. "Competing directly" means having to match that. 

Nintendo just doesn't like to do that. If MS wasn't around then I think Nintendo would be more inclined to make more of a traditional console as there would be a wide open spot at no.2 (minimum) to be the alternative to Sony and sell even 33-45 million units in a poor cycle. But when you add MS into the mix, it just throws everything off. 

The industry has never supported 3 platforms that try to do the same thing. If it was just two hardware makers, that's a huge, huge difference. In that scenario, Nintendo could sell 40-50 million likely each gen without much fuss, I don't think they would mind at all even being no.2 to Sony. 



Around the Network
Soundwave said:
AEGRO said:


Is that why Microsoft with all the cash have won every gen? Oh wait!

 

Why is it that the company with the most struggles when it comes to finances is the one on top, with the most games, with the better games, with all the 3rd party support? Nintendo and Microsoft have more money than Sony, so?

That's not the point, the point is Nintendo doesn't like to compete in crowded markets. 

If doesn't matter if MS is winning or not, they have set the rules in a lot of ways for the industry by throwing cash around like it's going out of style. "Competing directly" means having to match that. 

Nintendo just doesn't like to do that. If MS wasn't around then I think Nintendo would be more inclined to make more of a traditional console as there would be a wide open spot at no.2 (minimum) to be the alternative to Sony and sell even 33-45 million units in a poor cycle. But when you add MS into the mix, it just throws everything off. 

The industry has never supported 3 platforms that try to do the same thing. If it was just two hardware makers, that's a huge, huge difference. In that scenario, Nintendo could sell 40-50 million likely each gen without much fuss, I don't think they would mind at all even being no.2 to Sony. 

 

I agree with you. A 2way competition would be better for the gaming scenario. Preferably with Sony and Nintendo.



RolStoppable said:

I wouldn't call it foresight when third parties in general tend to bet against Nintendo, and that includes a clean streak of domination in the handheld market where Nintendo had to earn third party support all over again with the 3DS. And of course the audience interested in multiplatform games wasn't going to buy a Wii U, because the release schedule at E3 2012 already made it clear that it had to be expected that about half of the games will not arrive on the system, not to mention that these expectations had to be lowered the closer we got to the launch of the Wii U. Add bad performance for the launch wave of titles and there's no doubt left anymore that this isn't a system to buy if multiplatform games are what you value the most; not only would you be missing out on most of them, but the ones you do get will be shoddy ports.

What do you mean by "they've found success with for the first 4 systems"? What are these four systems?

Regarding the 3DS, that wasn't anti Nintendo, Devs just weren't interested in the dedicated handheld market. Vita got similar treament, worse from the japanese side and slightly better on the western side due to its specs allowing certain console ports and sony financially pushing projects like COD: Declassified. Besides that I presume people look towards the gamecube which actually had a lot of support. 

And you're right, the prospect of third party support was never that great on the Wii U. Part of what I was saying is that its logical to suspect power to be part of that reason. The people who bought third party games on PS3/360 bought into a system with virtue of them being "modern" devices and offering blockbuster experiences. The Wii U specs doesn't fit in line with said audience and the experience they want. I mean Square Enix was happy to announce Dragon Quest X (a wii port) for Wii U but not Tomb Raider. Nintendo produced a system that wasn't part of many devs roadmap and the support it had day one were from the mega publishers EA/Activision/Ubisoft, who don't really have to think to hard about throwing a few mil at a port. For most It didn't fit into their end of gen plans of capitalising off the 160m PS3/360's out in the wild, I'm sure plenty of devs wanted to drop the dated hardware of those platforms but they had a u$erbase to milk.... Whilst at the same time Wii U did not align itself as a future platform to invest in. Its specs were well below the future benchmark 1Tflop+ GPU's and x86 architecture, it was caught between a rock and a hardplace and I believe power is one of the main issues.

The 4 systems are NES/SNES/N64/Gamecube. All very profitable, all modern specs, all moderate third party success. We shouldn't ignore that Nintendo spent around $100 of the WIi U's cost on functionality around the gamepad that could have instead gone into producing a  1Tflop, 4GB RAM system. The difference of their current nature versus the gamecube days, isn't necessarily how much they're spending on hardware, more where that money is going. 



Normchacho said:
zorg1000 said:


Look at the support Nintendo gave Wii in 2010 & 2011.

2010

Endless Ocean: Blue World

Super Mario Galaxy 2

Sin & Punishment: Star Successor

PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure

Metroid: Other M

Wii Party

Kirby's Epic Yarn

FlingSmash

Donkey Kong Country Returns

 

2011

Mario Sports Mix

Wii Play: Motion

Kirby's Return to Dream Land

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Fortune Street


So? There were still 4 Wii games in the top 10 best selling games in 2011. By 2011 the fad was over and nobody cared anymore. That lack of carring carried straight through to the launch of the Wii U.

Where are all of those Wii owners? They didn't stop buying Wiis because the new console was coming out, because they didn't buy that either.


What do u mean so? Are sales supposed to rise or stay stagnant when support drops? Why did Wii sell 11 million in 2011 if nobody cared anymore? Obviously people still cared about it at that point.

As I just pointed out, 2011 had a major decline due to Nintendo support being non-existant outside of the holidays (the first 3 quarters of the year just had a bad Mario sports title and a bad mini game collection). 2012 wasn't any better and Wii U still to this day suffers from long droughts between Nintendo software.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

RolStoppable said:

Lack of interest is really hard to buy as a viable excuse when it comes to a system where everyone could expect a minimum of at least 50m systems being sold. In the end game development is a business, so foregoing working on a platform because you don't feel like it is... well, it sounds really selfish.

Power might be part of the reason, but it's meaningless to have power when the result is still that a lot of games would be absent because the reasons go way beyond power. Ultimately, the reason why various third parties would not develop for the Nintendo console could be once again described as "devs were just not interested". And if power isn't the cure to lack of third party support, then it really isn't important how powerful Nintendo's next system is. What matters is that the system sells and there's simply no evidence that power has ever helped Nintendo to move hardware.

I suspected that you would name those four systems. The problem is that the NES wasn't a me-too system and that the N64 and GC can't be described as successes. So there's only one console left and even that one declined in sales from its predecessor; furthermore, it was also launched in the pre-Sony and Microsoft era, and the market dynamics have clearly changed a lot since then.

You are right that Nintendo could have produced a 1 teraflop system with 4GB RAM if they spent the money on processing power instead of the Gamepad, but what makes you believe that it would have sold? When it comes to power, it would have still been behind the PS4 and X1, so the market at large would have decided to wait for the other two systems before making a decision. When it comes to third parties, some of them would have still not developed for the Nintendo console for whatever reason they could come up with, which in turn would have made the decision for the market easier to buy a PS4 or X1 instead. Lastly, launching the console with a standard dual analog controller would have turned off the Wii audience even more than the Gamepad did. In the sum Nintendo would basically be at exactly the same point as they are now, trailing far behind the competition in sales.

A system of 50m people is useless if they're only going to buy casual games and Nintendo titles, if the system isn't designed for your audience, you don't expect your product to sell much on it regardless of its userbase. I couldn't speak on the many of the devs that lacked interest in Wii U, I still suspect a lot of it is due to power and percpection but regardless I think you speak in black and white terms regarding a systems potential to sell. The question isn't whether Nintendo was going to win 1st or second place or whether 100% of third party games would be there, but could they comfortably grow beyond the success we've seen on the Wii U. 

It wouldn't have to outsell the Xbox One for it be more successful then the gamepad scheme. One which i don't think attracted any notable amount of the Wii audience, one which also generated confusion through marketing with emphasis on the controller, making it appear like an accessory. With a more powerful Wii U, being the least powerful isn't a huge problem as long as you're offering a generational leap. Would plenty of people hold back and wait for the PS4/X1? Sure! The question really is whether more people would more have adopted the Wii U? I think so, of course assuming this brought it better third party support (I'll agree to disagree on that). We may disagree here too but I don't think the power difference has too much to do with the PS4's success over the XB1. In the markets where X1 is strong (USA/UK), the difference between the platforms is negligable  and can be drawn from the fact X1 was $100 more expensive at launch+bad press etc. Similarly, being weakest of the 3 certainly wouldn't help the 1tflop Wii U, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't find success. It'd be the cheapest of the lot whilst still being very capable system considered a leap over 360/PS3.

N64 and Gamecube may not have hit their sale goals but they were successful at being profitable and satisfying consumer demand. Essentially there is potential in the "me-too" approach, its how the Xbox brand grew. I believe the market is more receptive to it now then it was in the PS2 era where jaugernauts like Final Fantasy, GTA , Tekken and kingdom Hearts were treated like sony 1st party titles. The jaugernauts of today will be whored out to any system where they will make profit without too much effort



Around the Network
spemanig said:
zorg1000 said:


Games like that arent their primary focus and make up a small amount of Nintendo's output. Wii was primarily a kid/family/casual console yet it still had things like Metroid Prime 3 & Xenoblade Chronicles, very hardcore and niche titles.

For every Bayonetta 2/Xenoblade Chronicles X, there is a Captain Toad, Pokemon Shuffle, Kirby Rainbow Curse, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Mario Party 10, Pokemon Rumble World, Splatoon, Dr. Mario: Miracle Cure, Yoshi's Woolly World, Super Mario Maker, Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer.

So even if NX is aimed primarily at kids/casuals/families, they will still very likely fund the occasional hardcore niche title.


I don't agree at all. I think it is one of their primary focuses. If what you're saying is true, those games would be considered a waste of recourses. There's no reason at all to make games like that in that case. Nintendo constantly refers to its audience as "gamers" something with a negative stigma to casuals. Nintendo may make a lot of everyone games, but that does not mean they aren't trying to target a core audience, even agressively. They absolutely are.

Im under the much more likely belief that Nintendo are simply run by a bunch of morons who think the fans want this stuff. They don't sound like they're targeting a different audience. They just sound ignorant.

The Wii U didn't fail because it tried to target a casual audience. The Wii U failed because Nintendo though this is what could get back the core audience. Of course it's a high priority for them. They are just stupid because the whole fucking company is run by people who don't play games.

Iwata? Coder. Not a gamer. Miyamoto? Developer. Self admittedly not a gamer. Reggie? Fucking obviously not a gamer. But all of these people have this dangerous ignorance because they THINK they know what we want better than we do.

It's not really up for debate, games like Xenoblade/Bayonetta are not Nintendo's primary concern in terms of games they develop/publish, they make up maybe 10% of Nintendo's output.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:

It's not really up for debate, games like Xenoblade/Bayonetta are not Nintendo's primary concern in terms of games they develop/publish, they make up maybe 10% of Nintendo's output.


Of course it's not up for debate. The entire structure of their current console landscape contradicts you. The way they build their consoles. The way they build their games. I never said they were good at it, but is a primary focus. They may not have an onslaught of first party Bayonetta's, but the machine was definitely built to have them.



If there seperate SKUs and the console NX sells even 30 million, I think Nintendo will be quite happy with that.



Soundwave said:
I think the bottom line is Nintendo simply does not want to compete with Sony *and* Microsoft. If it was just Sony, that I think they could deal with. Sony is a much smaller company and there's much more room to be profitable even at no.2.

The N64 was a big money maker even at no.2 and that machine would've easily sold double (65-70 million units) if they had used CD-ROM instead versus the Playstation.

But Microsoft just makes the whole "go make a regular console Nintendo!" too untenable to Nintendo. There's not enough room for three consoles that basically all do the same thing and three companies all bidding for the same third party games.

It just leads into a rat race that isn't appealing to Nintendo because Microsoft can simply spend more money and then Nintendo has to match or respond somehow because that are in direct competition.

MS is the one that screwed up everything for Nintendo in the traditional console space, Apple is the one that screwed up everything with casuals for Nintendo. So that's two poisoned wells for them.

I kinda agree, though Nintendo screwed up letting Microsoft into the game. They should have competed with Sony better, but didn't. Microsoft filled that void, and too this day its still like that. Maybe Nintendo should re-consider that buyout offer Microsoft made to them.



Nintendo doing it again.



Game of the year 2017 so far:

5. Resident Evil VII
4. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
2. Horizon Zero Dawn
1. Super Mario Odyssey