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Forums - Politics - All we need is immigration reform

generic-user-1 said:
sabvre42 said:

Obama is a terrible president.

Obamacare is not all kittens and rainbows like the left proclaims. Yes people are covered that weren't before. But, the implementation is awful.
1.) When you give something to some people (particularly the uneducated) for free, people abuse the system. They literally do not care about costs and will not shop around (circumventing supply and demand). I literally know an illegal family that gets medical assistance and took their baby (yes illegals qualify for MA in the case of pregnancy and their kids are citizens) to the ER for 1 day of not pooping.
2.) Those of us that actually pay for insurance have seen our rates sky rocket, while our coverage goes down.

3.) Unless it's single payer, even the poor need to cost share on a sliding scale system. There is a reason HSAs are so popular... they are cheaper because people are responsible. 

 

 

 

its not the left, its the centre. left leaning people dont want a capitalistic healthcare system that ust helps big corperations.

1. going shopping for healthcare? that musst realy suck if you feels sick...   and people dont abuse the system, your system just doesnt work.

2. that happens when you let the capitalists run the system...

3. or maybe learn from europe? state regulating and social medical systems are working just fine, and they are cheaper too.

and the people feel better with it. 

 

Doctor #1 - Charges $500 for a procedure.
Doctor #2 - Charges $1500 for a procedure but is closer.

People who have no consideration in the transaction (aka free healthcare) will always choose Doctor #1. I then have to pay their taxes.



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sabvre42 said:
generic-user-1 said:
sabvre42 said:

Obama is a terrible president.

Obamacare is not all kittens and rainbows like the left proclaims. Yes people are covered that weren't before. But, the implementation is awful.
1.) When you give something to some people (particularly the uneducated) for free, people abuse the system. They literally do not care about costs and will not shop around (circumventing supply and demand). I literally know an illegal family that gets medical assistance and took their baby (yes illegals qualify for MA in the case of pregnancy and their kids are citizens) to the ER for 1 day of not pooping.
2.) Those of us that actually pay for insurance have seen our rates sky rocket, while our coverage goes down.

3.) Unless it's single payer, even the poor need to cost share on a sliding scale system. There is a reason HSAs are so popular... they are cheaper because people are responsible. 

 

 

 

its not the left, its the centre. left leaning people dont want a capitalistic healthcare system that ust helps big corperations.

1. going shopping for healthcare? that musst realy suck if you feels sick...   and people dont abuse the system, your system just doesnt work.

2. that happens when you let the capitalists run the system...

3. or maybe learn from europe? state regulating and social medical systems are working just fine, and they are cheaper too.

and the people feel better with it. 

 

Doctor #1 - Charges $500 for a procedure.
Doctor #2 - Charges $1500 for a procedure but is closer.

People who have no consideration in the transaction (aka free healthcare) will always choose Doctor #1. I then have to pay their taxes.

like i said, your system doesnt work.  in europe nobody cares to what doctor you want, they all the the same money for the same procedure.  and it works BETTER than in the US.



ReimTime said:


One thing I think he could do is make Nationwide drug testing for welfare applicants mandatory.


Several states have done this and ended up losing money. Theres no point in setting up a system to save money only to have it cost you money.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/02/26/3624447/tanf-drug-testing-states/



generic-user-1 said:
sabvre42 said:

Doctor #1 - Charges $500 for a procedure.

Doctor #2 - Charges $1500 for a procedure but is closer.

People who have no consideration in the transaction (aka free healthcare) will always choose Doctor #1. I then have to pay their taxes.

like i said, your system doesnt work.  in europe nobody cares to what doctor you want, they all the the same money for the same procedure.  and it works BETTER than in the US.


I just want to know - Do you Europeans ever realize (let alone admit) that you reap the benefits of the US healthecare system indirectly? In fact, do you realize that one of the largest exports from the United States is Medical Technology?

Pharmaceutical companies, Medical Technology companies, etc are all huge in the US because the system actually supports it. Capitalism begits competition; and competition begits innovation. 

There are plenty of examples in the United States were state controlled healthcare actually hurts the system. One big example is the quasi-single payer system known as Medicare. Medicare is the government's health insurance system for people over the age of 65. Its one of the largest single expenditures of United States Tax dollars, yet, the government mandated rates are often too low to actually cover the clinic/hospitals costs.

2.9% (1.45% employee and 1.45% employer) of every taxable income dollar earned in the United States (and the "rich" get an extra 1%ish i think) goes to paying for the healthcare of the elderly. The funny thing is -- medicare also has cost sharing.



method114 said:
ReimTime said:


One thing I think he could do is make Nationwide drug testing for welfare applicants mandatory.


Several states have done this and ended up losing money. Theres no point in setting up a system to save money only to have it cost you money.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/02/26/3624447/tanf-drug-testing-states/

Welfare is only one form of income redistribution in the traditional sense. Its also a fraction of the overall government assistance.

Welfare in the traditional sense is literally cash handed to "low income" people. 
Next, and separate, you have Food Stamps which is split into EBT funds and at least in my state actual cash assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have rent assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have daycare assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have Medical Asisstance/ State sponsored medical programs.
Next, and again separate, you have education assistance such as the pell grant and state programs.

Lastly, and imo the most annoying of the programs,you have the EIC (earned income credit). People who literally pay ZERO income tax (they get it all back) get a check from the government for up to $5200. This is in addition to the Child credit, the Childcare credit, the Education credit, etc. We personally know a single mom of 2 kids that works as a CNA (certified nursing assistant). She gets all the government assistance I listed above - makes only $17,000 a year - but still recieved a ~$8000 tax return.



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sabvre42 said:
generic-user-1 said:
sabvre42 said:

Doctor #1 - Charges $500 for a procedure.

Doctor #2 - Charges $1500 for a procedure but is closer.

People who have no consideration in the transaction (aka free healthcare) will always choose Doctor #1. I then have to pay their taxes.

like i said, your system doesnt work.  in europe nobody cares to what doctor you want, they all the the same money for the same procedure.  and it works BETTER than in the US.


I just want to know - Do you Europeans ever realize (let alone admit) that you reap the benefits of the US healthecare system indirectly? In fact, do you realize that one of the largest exports from the United States is Medical Technology?

Pharmaceutical companies, Medical Technology companies, etc are all huge in the US because the system actually supports it. Capitalism begits competition; and competition begits innovation. 

There are plenty of examples in the United States were state controlled healthcare actually hurts the system. One big example is the quasi-single payer system known as Medicare. Medicare is the government's health insurance system for people over the age of 65. Its one of the largest single expenditures of United States Tax dollars, yet, the government mandated rates are often too low to actually cover the clinic/hospitals costs.

2.9% (1.45% employee and 1.45% employer) of every taxable income dollar earned in the United States (and the "rich" get an extra 1%ish i think) goes to paying for the healthcare of the elderly. The funny thing is -- medicare also has cost sharing.


1. europe has a lot of huge pharma companys too.

2. the cost for pills  arent lower in the EU,  the rest of the system is just much cheaper because the state regulates the prices for everything,and there are alot less people wo make a profit.

3. the problem is that just a small part of the system is state controlled, and 2.9% isnt that much to cover all the old folks.

 



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sabvre42 said:
method114 said:


Several states have done this and ended up losing money. Theres no point in setting up a system to save money only to have it cost you money.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/02/26/3624447/tanf-drug-testing-states/

Welfare is only one form of income redistribution in the traditional sense. Its also a fraction of the overall government assistance.

Welfare in the traditional sense is literally cash handed to "low income" people. 
Next, and separate, you have Food Stamps which is split into EBT funds and at least in my state actual cash assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have rent assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have daycare assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have Medical Asisstance/ State sponsored medical programs.
Next, and again separate, you have education assistance such as the pell grant and state programs.

Lastly, and imo the most annoying of the programs,you have the EIC (earned income credit). People who literally pay ZERO income tax (they get it all back) get a check from the government for up to $5200. This is in addition to the Child credit, the Childcare credit, the Education credit, etc. We personally know a single mom of 2 kids that works as a CNA (certified nursing assistant). She gets all the government assistance I listed above - makes only $17,000 a year - but still recieved a ~$8000 tax return.


Yep I understand a lot of people hate these systems but I've seen them work and I've seen them help people get out of the hole they're in. My family was on them at one point and now my dad is making over 120k a year. My sister is making over 60k a year and I'm making over 50k a year once my contract is up I'll easily be able to find  a job making 60k+. We were children of welfare and now we help pay back into the system that helped us when we needed it.  Mitt Romney's family was also on Welfare and now look at how well they're doing. You always hear about the people who are abusing them system but you rarely hear about the people who used it for what it was inteded for. Helping people who are in a rough spot and just need some help until they can work themselves out of it.

It's a shame that people abuse the system but honestly these programs aren't the place we should be looking to get money back. We need to focus on these companies that are using tax loop holes to avoid paying anything. That will bring in more money then will know what to do with.



method114 said:
sabvre42 said:

Welfare is only one form of income redistribution in the traditional sense. Its also a fraction of the overall government assistance.

Welfare in the traditional sense is literally cash handed to "low income" people. 
Next, and separate, you have Food Stamps which is split into EBT funds and at least in my state actual cash assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have rent assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have daycare assistance.
Next, and again separate, you have Medical Asisstance/ State sponsored medical programs.
Next, and again separate, you have education assistance such as the pell grant and state programs.

Lastly, and imo the most annoying of the programs,you have the EIC (earned income credit). People who literally pay ZERO income tax (they get it all back) get a check from the government for up to $5200. This is in addition to the Child credit, the Childcare credit, the Education credit, etc. We personally know a single mom of 2 kids that works as a CNA (certified nursing assistant). She gets all the government assistance I listed above - makes only $17,000 a year - but still recieved a ~$8000 tax return.


Yep I understand a lot of people hate these systems but I've seen them work and I've seen them help people get out of the hole they're in. My family was on them at one point and now my dad is making over 120k a year. My sister is making over 60k a year and I'm making over 50k a year once my contract is up I'll easily be able to find  a job making 60k+. We were children of welfare and now we help pay back into the system that helped us when we needed it.  Mitt Romney's family was also on Welfare and now look at how well they're doing. You always hear about the people who are abusing them system but you rarely hear about the people who used it for what it was inteded for. Helping people who are in a rough spot and just need some help until they can work themselves out of it.

It's a shame that people abuse the system but honestly these programs aren't the place we should be looking to get money back. We need to focus on these companies that are using tax loop holes to avoid paying anything. That will bring in more money then will know what to do with.

 

im pretty sure mr romney did never need welfare checks, his dad was the boss of a car company, governeur of michigan and minister under nixon, if he got welfare checks, he abused the system big time.



ReimTime said:
Well to be perfectly honest, he has to be not black. I think he is pretty damn awesome but there are people who won't give him the time of day because he is black, or hate on him relentlessly for being Democrat.

One thing I think he could do is make Nationwide drug testing for welfare applicants mandatory.

Don't act like he doesn't take advantage of his minority status. He's given so much benefit of the doubt for his actions and from the media, I don't think you can really use his party or color as a con.

Also for the OP, most would consider the health care act a negative and the economic situation has not "recovered". 



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