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Forums - PC Discussion - Are the "PC Master Race" days over?

SvennoJ said:
OdinHades said:

If money isn't an Issue, PC gaming will always be superior. Which is why I nowadays almost exclusively play on PC and on my shiny Steam Deck on the go. At the moment I only fire up my switch for my daily portion of Ring Fit Adventure, lol.

It used to be different. When I was younger and had about zero disposable income, I played on PlayStation and was happy for what I got. Now I have more money than I can spend so there really isn't any reason at all to get a PlayStation or Xbox. Especially since exclusive titles seem to become a thing of the past.

I'm the opposite. When I was younger I pirated a lot of games so PC was the way to go. One time investment, tons of games and plenty time to try everything out and find the best settings.

Nowadays I have plenty disposable income, $70 games don't bother me at all, yet my time is now the limiting factor. It's till easier / faster to turn a console game on than managing a PC game. I love FS2020 and wouldn't want to play that on Series X, but it takes a lot of time to get it started / updated, lot of time wasted on trouble shooting, managing cpu/gpu temps, updating mods etc.

So I simply fire up Series X or PS5 and am playing in under 30 seconds, not worrying about settings or whether drivers are up to date etc.

Plus I still prefer physical games, and for PC it's very hard to find those nowadays.

Fun fact... I can boot my PC and load up steam faster than I can boot my Series X or Playstation 5 and launch a game. My SSD and CPU is just faster so I can expedite loading.

super_etecoon said:

I wouldn’t want to be associated with anything that dubs itself a “master race.” If you’re comfortable with that, have at it.

It's a joke... Started by a comedian... Keep in mind it also has some reference to Nazi Germany. Aka. "Perfect Aryan Race".

Originally it was used to place irony on the fact that PC Gamers had an elitist attitude because they would spend untold thousands on their rigs and couldn't run games like the Witcher with full fidelity and framerate... And thus blamed it on the console port of the game.

Then it was reappropriated to make fun of console gamers who think their platform of choice had the best graphics, controls, online, hardware... (I.E. Power of the Cell) and in turn attacked the PC at every turn. So PC Gamers used the PC Gaming Master race moniker to make a joke at their expense.

And it actually served it's purpose.

I admit to using it fairly often in the past to get someone fired up for an engaging discussion.

SvennoJ said:

But why? It's working perfectly fine for me and I can't erase decades of stress working on PCs for work, which will forever be associated with Windows in my mind. Unless you have a way to erase my memory, consoles will always be the more relaxing experience!

Respectfully, you could seek some therapy maybe? You shouldn't have stress/anxiety for gaming on a certain platform due to work.

SvennoJ said:

Part of gaming for me is collecting and sharing those games now with my kids. It was awesome to get the ps2 out again when they were growing up and play things like Baldur's gate alliance again. Plus with buying (and selling less games) I have my physical collection to browse through, relive the games while deciding on the next one to play. I simply don't get that feeling from my Steam library or ps+ collection. Same with GameCube and PS3, great machines. (360 sadly died, got a replacement but afraid to use it lol)

Many of us, myself included have extensive PC game collections, but also extensive console game collections, you can have both.
(My game collection is larger than this as it doesn't include the games room or the new games (I.E. PS5) I have bought since this image was taken.)


PC also tends to have stronger preservation of it's games... Like you alluded to, once your Xbox 360 died, it's difficult to ensure the proper function of those games in newer console as the backwards compatibility isn't 100%... So you need to resort to buying second hand.


With the PC your games come with you through the decades, I have games from the early 90's that I can drop into my bluray drive and run without a hitch.

SvennoJ said:


PC was my main platform from the 90s to about 2008 when 360 and ps3 took over. More relaxing, no work association and that's still the case. My PC Master Race days are definitely over. By PC is still part of my diet. I played Halo Infinite, FH5 and Psychonauts 2 on my laptop before I bought the Series X. Kinda regretting that now since it was on GP and Psychonauts 2 would have definitely earned a spot in my collection. (Halo Infinite came with the Series X Halo edition so will play that again when co-op arrives)

Actually atm I'm playing ps4 pro the most or rather GT Sport for the ease of jump in online racing. (GT7 has issues)

The PS3 and Xbox 360 were fine consoles.
But they were far from seamless like you are trying to push. Skyrim on Xbox 360 required me to change my console audio settings otherwise it would crash.

With the Playstation 3, install times were extensive, long and boring.
The Xbox One and Playstation 4 had endless updates for it's games and OS and even peripherals, which took forever due to the spinning rust drive.

Yeah. I can see the relaxation in that...

SvennoJ said:


Why limit yourself to PC? :

No one is saying we limit ourselves to the PC?






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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@Pemalite (sorry can't be bothered to figure out that fancy quoting) Actually since my laptop is always on, zero boot time. Yet every time I start Steam it wants to update first (or restart because it updated sometime earlier) probably because I don't use it all that often. And sure some games start faster, it's just a different experience. When I get behind the laptop I'll be checking my mail first, the weather, websites, and other distractions. Start a console, I get my drink, get settled on the couch and play what I was planning to play. PCs can simply do too much lol.

Consoles are my therapy, break away from dealing with Windows and iOS. Combining work and play didn't work for me, and led to many years of physical therapy from spending too much time behind a PC. Avg 9 hours during the day, then another 5 hours in the evening gaming and writing my own programs...

Great collection! Yep, both is best :) As for preservation, I'll leave that to Abandonware and GoG. I doubt any of my 5.25" and 3.5" discs still work and laptops don't even come with CD drives anymore.

Where am I trying to push that ps3 and 360 were seamless. It's when I started gaming more on consoles than on PC. During that time PCs were far from seamless as well. They still aren't but have made giant leaps since then in streamlining gaming. Skyrim on ps3 had me restart the game every 15-20 minutes since it stuttered to a halt even after disabling the crippling auto save. But still preferable than shutting my PC down (please wait while updates are being applied), disconnect all the cables, move it to my projector, start it back up (please wait while finishing updates) then play ETS2 with keyboard on my lap, mouse on the armrest and controller in my hands, while getting annoyed part of the edges of the screen (where games likes to put important info) are projected on the black bezel due to not getting the keystone correction perfect. Consoles have at least always respected a safe display area, PCs in 2007 weren't that friendly.

In the end, it kinda depends on where you game the most. Use it or lose it kinda situation. I game on consoles every day so a once in a while system update is a minuscule inconvenience. Game updates are annoying but you can play the old version while the update is being done. Can't do that with FS2020 for example :/ PC I don't use much so the chance of having to update first is much much higher. Like I said, I start Steam, it has to update, then it queues updates for a bunch of games after it loads.

When I was playing FS2020 daily, the monthly update was a one time thing. When you want a quick flight every other week, you're spending more time updating than flying. Same with Elite Dangerous. Was fine to play daily, check back in to the game now and then and everything has to update. The downside of GAAS. Use it or lose it.

I was looking at a 3070 gaming laptop the other day, thought about buying it, then just bought a bunch of 2nd hand xbox one games to play on Series X. Including Quantum Break which I have on Steam and Gears 5 which I already downloaded twice on PC GP and never actually played but will now play in local co-op :) The only game I really 'need' (a better) PC to play is FS2020 and that's still broken so might as well hold off on replacing my current 1060 laptop.



SvennoJ said:

@Pemalite (sorry can't be bothered to figure out that fancy quoting) Actually since my laptop is always on, zero boot time. Yet every time I start Steam it wants to update first (or restart because it updated sometime earlier) probably because I don't use it all that often. And sure some games start faster, it's just a different experience. When I get behind the laptop I'll be checking my mail first, the weather, websites, and other distractions. Start a console, I get my drink, get settled on the couch and play what I was planning to play. PCs can simply do too much lol.

Your laptop would not be as powerful as my desktop. You don't have the thermal or power envelope to match it.
I am also on Gbit fiber, so I can download a 100GB game in under 10 minutes, it's actually faster than the mechanical storage in the Playstation 4 and Xbox One.

It would be reasonable to assert that technologically, I am likely in a very different league entirely.

And that is fine you have a different use-scenario for your devices, not knocking that at all... Just reinforcing that your scenario isn't applicable to everyone elses and vice-versa.

SvennoJ said:

Consoles are my therapy, break away from dealing with Windows and iOS. Combining work and play didn't work for me, and led to many years of physical therapy from spending too much time behind a PC. Avg 9 hours during the day, then another 5 hours in the evening gaming and writing my own programs...

PC's are my therapy, I don't need to deal with Windows or iOS, it just works, it's just an interface.
Not to mention that console UI's are becoming rather complex these days and have monolithic kernals powering them, they aren't to different from a PC.

SvennoJ said:

Great collection! Yep, both is best :) As for preservation, I'll leave that to Abandonware and GoG. I doubt any of my 5.25" and 3.5" discs still work and laptops don't even come with CD drives anymore.

You can buy external USB optical drives. You can buy USB external 5.25" and 3.5" drives and run these games directly... In-fact, they have existed for 20+ years which you could have brought forward to every laptop.. You can't do that with that HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 or the Nintendo 64 DD... Consoles have historically relied on propriety interfaces and drivers so you can't bring accessories with you.

SvennoJ said:

I was looking at a 3070 gaming laptop the other day, thought about buying it, then just bought a bunch of 2nd hand xbox one games to play on Series X. Including Quantum Break which I have on Steam and Gears 5 which I already downloaded twice on PC GP and never actually played but will now play in local co-op :) The only game I really 'need' (a better) PC to play is FS2020 and that's still broken so might as well hold off on replacing my current 1060 laptop.

Get yourself a desktop... Your brand new Geforce 3070 notebook would have been inferior to my year+ desktop... It's comparatively more or less a mid-range desktop in terms of performance in 2022.

If you want the best graphics, best audio, best controls, most features (mod support, better fov, better online networks, more vibrant and engaging communities) then the PC is where it is at.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

You can buy external USB optical drives. You can buy USB external 5.25" and 3.5" drives and run these games directly... In-fact, they have existed for 20+ years which you could have brought forward to every laptop.. You can't do that with that HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 or the Nintendo 64 DD... Consoles have historically relied on propriety interfaces and drivers so you can't bring accessories with you.

I'm still a bit annoyed that I couldn't use my PS3 blue-tooth remote control with my PS4, PS4 Pro or PS5.

There was no technical reason, PS3 move controllers also work on the newer PS consoles via blue-tooth.



I don't know if I'll ever buy another gaming console.

Playing on a console is just not something that I think about anymore. There is no feeling of need or desire in that direction. Owning a PC seems like more than enough to keep me playing, no matter what style of game interests me at the time. The versatility and functionality are so wonderful, especially with two monitors--I mean, I swear to god, I will NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANOTHER RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF PLACE PUZZLE AGAIN, not when I can find the answer and have it displayed on the other screen within five minutes. Do you hear me, developers? Your stupid puzzles are as nothing to me now!

I've also become a big fan of mods, especially those that bring QoL improvements, and I very much love having my entire library, plus anything else I want to do, on one device.

Perhaps most important to me, though, are the options I have on PC. For example, some games make me feel sick because of all the terrible effects developers feel the need to pile on. Being able to scrape all that off and change the FOV has literally saved games for me.

I guess the crux of the matter is that PC makes me feel more in control of my entire experience and I really do not want to give that up.



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pokoko said:

The versatility and functionality are so wonderful, especially with two monitors--I mean, I swear to god, I will NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANOTHER RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF PLACE PUZZLE AGAIN, not when I can find the answer and have it displayed on the other screen within five minutes. Do you hear me, developers? Your stupid puzzles are as nothing to me now!

To be fair, while console gaming you can do these second-screen-tasks with your phone or a $100 tablet just fine.



I always thought the title was silly. I mean sure your PC is more powerful than my console, but it's not like all that power was free. You paid 1000 dollars for it so of course it's more power, it better be.  You paid more money for more power.  What's so "masterful" about that?

When high-end PCs cost the same amount as home consoles, THEN call yourself the master race.

Last edited by Paperboy_J - on 25 June 2022

Pemalite said:

You can buy external USB optical drives. You can buy USB external 5.25" and 3.5" drives and run these games directly... In-fact, they have existed for 20+ years which you could have brought forward to every laptop.. You can't do that with that HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 or the Nintendo 64 DD... Consoles have historically relied on propriety interfaces and drivers so you can't bring accessories with you.

Get yourself a desktop... Your brand new Geforce 3070 notebook would have been inferior to my year+ desktop... It's comparatively more or less a mid-range desktop in terms of performance in 2022.

If you want the best graphics, best audio, best controls, most features (mod support, better fov, better online networks, more vibrant and engaging communities) then the PC is where it is at.

Thing is, I got older, my eyes are deteriorating, I don't care about the best graphics, best audio and mod support anymore. 1440p is about the best I can make out, I see some benefits of it over 1080p but the difference between 1440p and 4K is lost on me. Audio is important for me in movies, in games I usually have the sound very low unless using headphones and the 3D audio from ps5 is more than good enough. Mod support is nice, but usually is a big hurdle when games still get regular updates and just add more things that need to be updated.

The 1060 is still more than capable to give me a fluid experience in 1080p. I could run Halo Infite at 'only' 48fps, and FS2020 at 20 to 40 fps, plenty for me. I actually notice judder and hickups more the higher the frame rate gets. 30fps is still looks perfectly fine to me, as long as it's a stable 30 fps. Horizon FW in quality mode was stable and stunning. I mostly played it in 1080p SDR on a 92" screen as the HDR implementation triggered migraines a few times :/

So nope, don't care for the best anymore. Convenience is now my nr 1 priority and nothing is more convenient than turning a console on, press X to start / continue the game that's in the drive and play. I usually never even notice the UI / OS.

I moved away from desktops to have less clutter, hence the gaming laptop. The spot where I use it has no room for a desktop and monitor, and thus also not interested in hanging peripherals on my laptop.

@pokoko That's another reason I prefer consoles. Just a little extra barrier to simply looking up the answer or follow a guide :/ Yet alt-tab is what kept FS2020 engaging so I could follow along on google maps and watch videos of the places I was flying over. But on consoles, when I play something like TLG I'm glad it has a shit browser so I'm less tempted to look up what to do next :)

I'm 2 years shy of reaching half a century endured on this planet. Focus shifts as you age, at least it did for me. From chasing the best graphics and playing tons of games I've gone to being satisfied with the fun games deliver, play more of fewer games, and appreciate the ease of use of consoles while holding on to physical as that's how my mind works.

I still have my desktop, it's my backup machine. That has the external backup drives and what not. Running a stable version of Windows NT and has all the drives, just no USB-C.

Anyway, if you do want the best graphics, the highest fps, mod support, you indeed need to go PC. Better online networks is debatable, FH5 online was a mess, FS2020 keeps losing Azure text to voice and cuts out altogether often. As for more vibrant and engaging communities, I don't notice any difference between the online communities for Elite Dangerous, FS2020 or Gran Turismo.



I think the main reason I prefer PC over consoles is so that I don't have to deal with the decisions from the console manufacturers. For example, if I buy a game today on a console, I have zero guarantees that it will work outside of the said console. If Sony releases a PS6 for example and I buy Elden Ring on PS5, the only hope that I have that it will work on the PS6 is the goodwill of Sony (same goes for MS and Nintendo).

Meanwhile if I buy Elden Ring on PC today, there is a very good chance it will work 20 years from now.

Then you have the whole subscription services and other nonsense. If I want to play PS3 games on my PS5, my only option is via cloud + paid subscription. Are you telling me that Sony can't figure out a way to emulate PS3 games on a device that is as powerful as a PS5 while basement developers are able to get PS3 emulation running on potato PCs? Nah, it's because they don't want to put in the R&D effort.

Then you have inherent limitations of consoles by design such as only being compatible with certain controllers and devices. On PC for example, not only can I use any controller setup that I want but if I own a Steam Deck, I can take that on the go or play on a laptop. Not to mention modding and such.

So for me, it never feels quite right buying a game on console. When I buy a game on PC, I get more out of the $60 vs buying the game on console. From modding to gaming on different types of devices to family sharing, etc. But most importantly, not having to worry about whether or not the money and time you spent on the game will get left behind on one device. And thanks to places like Greenmangaming, it's rare you ever have to pay full price on new games.



             

                   PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Paperboy_J said:

I always thought the title was silly. I mean sure your PC is more powerful than my console, but it's not like all that power was free. You paid 1000 dollars for it so of course it's more power, it better be.  You paid more money for more power.  What's so "masterful" about that?

When high-end PCs cost the same amount as home consoles, THEN call yourself the master race.

By that same argument... When the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5 can cost the same amount as the Series S... Then they don't have the power/price advantage.

All that extra power didn't end up being free.


SvennoJ said:

Thing is, I got older, my eyes are deteriorating, I don't care about the best graphics, best audio and mod support anymore. 1440p is about the best I can make out, I see some benefits of it over 1080p but the difference between 1440p and 4K is lost on me. Audio is important for me in movies, in games I usually have the sound very low unless using headphones and the 3D audio from ps5 is more than good enough. Mod support is nice, but usually is a big hurdle when games still get regular updates and just add more things that need to be updated.

The 1060 is still more than capable to give me a fluid experience in 1080p. I could run Halo Infite at 'only' 48fps, and FS2020 at 20 to 40 fps, plenty for me. I actually notice judder and hickups more the higher the frame rate gets. 30fps is still looks perfectly fine to me, as long as it's a stable 30 fps. Horizon FW in quality mode was stable and stunning. I mostly played it in 1080p SDR on a 92" screen as the HDR implementation triggered migraines a few times :/

So nope, don't care for the best anymore. Convenience is now my nr 1 priority and nothing is more convenient than turning a console on, press X to start / continue the game that's in the drive and play. I usually never even notice the UI / OS.

I moved away from desktops to have less clutter, hence the gaming laptop. The spot where I use it has no room for a desktop and monitor, and thus also not interested in hanging peripherals on my laptop.

If you have a freesync or gsync monitor with compatible hardware, you don't need to maintain 60fps.

I was happy playing Halo Infinite with max settings at "only" 120fps because my display can adjust down and match it.

As for Audio... Audio has technically been "good enough" for decades... The PC had hardware accelerated 3D positional Audio 20+ years ago, it's not a new technology.
Unfortunately Creative got litigious and shutdown the amazing Aureal A3D and Microsoft pushed for a software solution natively in Windows... But even that was "good enough" for most individuals... Hence why most people run with integrated audio (Consoles included) these days rather than an expansion card.

But yes, personal preference does take priority, I commend you for recognizing you have different needs/wants and desires than other people and basing your purchase decisions upon that, it's what the free market is all about.

SvennoJ said:

@pokoko That's another reason I prefer consoles. Just a little extra barrier to simply looking up the answer or follow a guide :/ Yet alt-tab is what kept FS2020 engaging so I could follow along on google maps and watch videos of the places I was flying over. But on consoles, when I play something like TLG I'm glad it has a shit browser so I'm less tempted to look up what to do next :)

I forget that single monitors tends to be the norm rather than the exception for mainstream PC's...

SvennoJ said:

Anyway, if you do want the best graphics, the highest fps, mod support, you indeed need to go PC. Better online networks is debatable, FH5 online was a mess, FS2020 keeps losing Azure text to voice and cuts out altogether often. As for more vibrant and engaging communities, I don't notice any difference between the online communities for Elite Dangerous, FS2020 or Gran Turismo.

Better online network is not debatable.
You are only focusing on the games individual servers... There is so much more than that.

The Xbox Series X and Playstation 5 cannot use my full internet speed due to limitations in their ethernet and wifi capabilities... Which is fine, 945Mbps wired is nothing to complain about I guess.
The Series X however only has 802.11ac wifi rather than the PS5's Wifi 6.

But because the PC doesn't rely on a single vendor for it's content delivery network. (I.E. Akami for Xbox), providers can then build their own CDN servers next to a network for higher throughput and lower latency... My provider Internode does this for example... It also allows them to reduce costs as they don't need to buy data at a further distance, it's all cached locally.

But where the PC differentiates even more is that a platform like Steam will use multiple CDN's simultaneously for higher throughput... I.E. Akami, Level3, Edgecast, Stackpath and more all at the same time for maximum throughput... This just doesn't happen on propriety and controlled ecosystems.

The PC's online communities are pretty extensive and vibrant... I fired up an old game called "Freelancer" and installed the mod "Discovery Freelancer" and found an entire online community... On a game that is 20! years old. It's nuts.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 25 June 2022

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--