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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo isn't ready for next gen.

Is there anyone ready for next-gen? Because I'm not.



“Simple minds have always confused great honesty with great rudeness.” - Sherlock Holmes, Elementary (2013).

"Did you guys expected some actual rational fact-based reasoning? ...you should already know I'm all about BS and fraudulence." - FunFan, VGchartz (2016)

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jmorris724 said:
Jon-Erich said:

1. While their reasoning for not showing Devil's Third in any form is a mystery, they did have Fatal Frame at the Treehouse Live event. Also, the family audience still does exist. Look no further than the Super Mario games and the other franchises with Mario's name on it. Look at the sales for Mario Party 10. They were amazing, and I doubt most the people who are buying Mario Party 10 are a bunch of 30-something year olds who are going to be playing the game with other people their age. That game was probably sold to people in their 30's who got the game for their kids.

2. Nintendo started using less expensive hardware because competing in an arms race got them absolutely nowhere. They also need to make money on their hardware. Thie major problem right now are the third parties. They either need to make hardware that'll be powerful enough to appease the third parties or completely switch to the x86 architecture which even if it's an underpowered system, it would still be easier and less expensive for third parties to port their games to.

3. Nintendo is secretive by nature. That's who they are and that's how they've always been. My hope is that they can find out what third parties need but without having to show them everything. Even though it's a disadvantage sometimes, being secretive has also been one of Nintendo's greatest strengths. 

4. They've probably got the hang of HD development by now. It was in the early days when they had trouble with that. When you look at their Wii U games, they look great. So I think HD development will be less of an issue for them in the future.

5. Going back to the GameCube, they tried to compete directly with the competition and it did nothing for them. The problem is there's no room in the console for three consoles that are alike. At least one of them has to branch out and do something different. Sometimes it works like it did with the Wii and sometimes id doesn't work like it did with Wii U.

 

The big problem with determining wether Nintendo is ready or not with the 9th generation is that we don't know what they're up. We don't know what NX is. We just don't know anything yet.


that's not completely true. they tried to market the wii to as many people as possible and that meant keeping it SD. Wii U is less powerful because the gamepad made it expensive. 

Didn't the Gamepad add around $70-75 to the console? If they really cared about creating a more powerful console, they would have gone for something that was between $450-$500. They didn't do that because they knew who makes up a large portion of their audience and they know parents aren't willing to spend that much on just one thing for their kids.



Check out my art blog: http://jon-erich-art.blogspot.com

RolStoppable said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Uhhh, then am I just imagining third party games boosting playstation and xbox sales? You really think third parties wouldn't help Nintendo?

You aren't imagining the first thing. But when it comes to Nintendo, there is virtually no proof that multiplats have ever pushed their hardware sales in any significant volumes. And the best you could come up with are probably the games that Nintendo will get anyway, regardless of the specs.

That's my point exactly. lol. You've been conditioned to think that since it's been generations that a Nintendo console had healthy third party support. So you mean to tell me if Nintendo released a console on par with the PS4 and X1 powerwise that had all the games that the other console had it wouldn't move systems? Of course it would.



RolStoppable said:
Ruler said:

Yeah but in the end of the day they are the same games, nintendo doesnt get more games out of thiws. Its the same situation like with the vita, ps3 and ps4 ports from japan. And we all know that handhelds are slowsly dying. Not to mention they would have to use flash cards as a medium which would scare away many other third parties.

Nintendo will get a more substantial flow of software on both devices. That's the crucial thing to sustain momentum for hardware sales.

The only handheld that is dying is Sony's and Nintendo has a strategy to reverse the decline. All those hand-me-down smart devices will have access to Nintendo's mobile games which allows Nintendo to have a continued presence in people's minds. From there it isn't a big step for kids to put Nintendo hardware on their wishlist for christmas or birthday. Adults could see the benefits of signing up for Nintendo's account system that extends beyond Nintendo hardware; once they are in, it isn't that difficult anymore to sell hardware to them. The initial hurdle is to get people to download the mobile games, but Nintendo and their IPs are incredibly big names, so they'll move to the top downloads fast and will stay there because the download patterns make popularity feed further popularity.

I have no idea why you think that flash cards would scare away third parties. Mass production is cheap and storage capacity is sufficient. Additionally, the third parties Nintendo will bank on are already used to making games for cards.


next gen games need 25-50 gb with blue rays. They wont certainly getting 8gen games on the NX. Yes handhelds are dying, nintendo needs to carve in their remaining user base to compete or why else they decided to mix now both together.

They went from 120 million gameboys and 50 million SNESs to 50 million 3DSs and 10 million WiiUs. And i dont think this number will increase with the NX, they can be lucky remaining 60 million.

What Nintendo tries to archieve is allready reality for sony with the vita ports, so i dont think the vita is going anywhere its powerfull enough to handle the NX ports. 



RolStoppable said:
MoHasanie said:

I don't have any proof but its not it's not hard to understand that Nintendo consoles, just like MS and Sony ones, do need third party support from Western publishers. Nintendo can't rely on Japan only, and for it to attract customers in the west, they need to make their consoles just as powerful as the PS4 and X1, and they need third party games. After that, they can focus on differentiating their console from the other two, but Nintendo exclusives and Japanese games won't be enough for the NX to do well in the west. 

In the past Nintendo has already committed the mistake that you suggest them to make again. If they design their console for third parties first and then try to differentiate themselves, they'll only end up with an unappealing system; system doesn't sell, third parties abandon ship. The GC was easier to program for than the PS2, more powerful and cheaper, but none of that helped. So what Nintendo really has to do is make a system that sells, because that's the only way that they can hope to get third party support.

But really, the importance of third party support will decrease with Nintendo's new strategy, because their own software will release at a more constant rate. All of that software will be exclusive. Additionally, it won't hurt Nintendo if people buy PS+NX or Xbox+NX due to the absence of certain third party IPs on NX, because they get their sale regardless. The utmost priority for Nintendo is to make a system that sells, and if you look at the sales of multiplatform games on previous Nintendo systems, then it should be absolutely clear that first party software and exclusive third party software is much more important than multiplats. Therefore your suggestion to design the system for multiplats first is... well, it's nonsensical.


As much as I love the hell out of the GameCube, the reason it didn't sell well compared to the PS2 didn't have anything to do with software output, and support.
Even though it was easier to develop for, it had little compact discs that had piss poor space and memory, hence why Tales of Symphonia was split into 2 dics, as wass Resident Evil 4. So develops who wanted to make the big games like Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2, skipped out on the GC, because all that content couldn't fit into 1 disc like it could with the PS2.
Plus, it helps when the PS2 had a one year head start, was the successor to the PS1, had a DVD player to attract the casual market, had online, which was a huge bonus because this was the gen where online gaming started to explode, and was all around THE cool system, and the GameCube...just...wasn't cool. The purple lunchbox design? The small discs? No online?
It's software support and outing was great, but it's concept was garbage. That's why I described how the concept of NX would be another key factor back on my own thread where I predicted the future of Wii U and NX.



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Ruler said:
RolStoppable said:

Nintendo will get a more substantial flow of software on both devices. That's the crucial thing to sustain momentum for hardware sales.

The only handheld that is dying is Sony's and Nintendo has a strategy to reverse the decline. All those hand-me-down smart devices will have access to Nintendo's mobile games which allows Nintendo to have a continued presence in people's minds. From there it isn't a big step for kids to put Nintendo hardware on their wishlist for christmas or birthday. Adults could see the benefits of signing up for Nintendo's account system that extends beyond Nintendo hardware; once they are in, it isn't that difficult anymore to sell hardware to them. The initial hurdle is to get people to download the mobile games, but Nintendo and their IPs are incredibly big names, so they'll move to the top downloads fast and will stay there because the download patterns make popularity feed further popularity.

I have no idea why you think that flash cards would scare away third parties. Mass production is cheap and storage capacity is sufficient. Additionally, the third parties Nintendo will bank on are already used to making games for cards.


next gen games need 25-50 gb with blue rays. They wont certainly getting 8gen games on the NX. Yes handhelds are dying, nintendo needs to carve in their remaining user base to compete or why else they decided to mix now both together.

They went from 120 million gameboys and 50 million SNESs to 50 million 3DSs and 10 million WiiUs. And i dont think this number will increase with the NX, they can be lucky remaining 60 million.

What Nintendo tries to archieve is allready reality for sony with the vita ports, so i dont think the vita is going anywhere its powerfull enough to handle the NX ports. 


Gameboy was 2 separate generations, it did 54 million from April 1989-March 1996 and 64 million from April 1996-March 2003. In that same time frame, they sold 49 million SNES and 33 million N64.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

PAOerfulone said:
RolStoppable said:

In the past Nintendo has already committed the mistake that you suggest them to make again. If they design their console for third parties first and then try to differentiate themselves, they'll only end up with an unappealing system; system doesn't sell, third parties abandon ship. The GC was easier to program for than the PS2, more powerful and cheaper, but none of that helped. So what Nintendo really has to do is make a system that sells, because that's the only way that they can hope to get third party support.

But really, the importance of third party support will decrease with Nintendo's new strategy, because their own software will release at a more constant rate. All of that software will be exclusive. Additionally, it won't hurt Nintendo if people buy PS+NX or Xbox+NX due to the absence of certain third party IPs on NX, because they get their sale regardless. The utmost priority for Nintendo is to make a system that sells, and if you look at the sales of multiplatform games on previous Nintendo systems, then it should be absolutely clear that first party software and exclusive third party software is much more important than multiplats. Therefore your suggestion to design the system for multiplats first is... well, it's nonsensical.


As much as I love the hell out of the GameCube, the reason it didn't sell well compared to the PS2 didn't have anything to do with software output, and support.
Even though it was easier to develop for, it had little compact discs that had piss poor space and memory, hence why Tales of Symphonia was split into 2 dics, as wass Resident Evil 4. So develops who wanted to make the big games like Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2, skipped out on the GC, because all that content couldn't fit into 1 disc like it could with the PS2.
Plus, it helps when the PS2 had a one year head start, was the successor to the PS1, had a DVD player to attract the casual market, had online, which was a huge bonus because this was the gen where online gaming started to explode, and was all around THE cool system, and the GameCube...just...wasn't cool. The purple lunchbox design? The small discs? No online?
It's software support and outing was great, but it's concept was garbage. That's why I described how the concept of NX would be another key factor back on my own thread where I predicted the future of Wii U and NX.


A ton of PS1 games were on multiple discs so the excuse is invalid.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

RolStoppable said:
Mystro-Sama said:

That's my point exactly. lol. You've been conditioned to think that since it's been generations that a Nintendo console had healthy third party support. So you mean to tell me if Nintendo released a console on par with the PS4 and X1 powerwise that had all the games that the other console had it wouldn't move systems? Of course it would.

Yes, that's what would happen.

People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play GTA.
People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play Batman.
People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play CoD.

You get the point. Why would people buy a different brand when they are satisfied with what they are used to? That's why Xbox has such a hard stand against PS in so many countries in the world. If your theory that having the same games leads to success held true, then Xbox shouldn't get steamrolled.

You are free to look up the top sellers for previous Nintendo consoles. We are on VGC, after all. You won't find many multiplats among the bestsellers, even on the consoles that had a lot of multiplats.

Yep, to my knowledge, Just Dance is the only multiplats to sell significant numbers.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

RolStoppable said:
Mystro-Sama said:

That's my point exactly. lol. You've been conditioned to think that since it's been generations that a Nintendo console had healthy third party support. So you mean to tell me if Nintendo released a console on par with the PS4 and X1 powerwise that had all the games that the other console had it wouldn't move systems? Of course it would.

Yes, that's what would happen.

People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play GTA.
People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play Batman.
People wouldn't buy Nintendo in droves to play CoD.

You get the point. Why would people buy a different brand when they are satisfied with what they are used to? That's why Xbox has such a hard stand against PS in so many countries in the world. If your theory that having the same games leads to success held true, then Xbox shouldn't get steamrolled.

You are free to look up the top sellers for previous Nintendo consoles. We are on VGC, after all. You won't find many multiplats among the bestsellers, even on the consoles that had a lot of multiplats.

Exclusives. This is the bread and butter of any console. There thousands of people out there who would gladly buy a Nintendo console alone if they could have their third party games that they love while having the Marios, the Zeldas and the Metroids all on one console. Why do you think the PS4 is selling so well? It's because it has a mix of practically everything.



RolStoppable said:
Ruler said:

next gen games need 25-50 gb with blue rays. They wont certainly getting 8gen games on the NX. Yes handhelds are dying, nintendo needs to carve in their remaining user base to compete or why else they decided to mix now both together.

They went from 120 million gameboys and 50 million SNESs to 50 million 3DSs and 10 million WiiUs. And i dont think this number will increase with the NX, they can be lucky remaining 60 million.

What Nintendo tries to archieve is allready reality for sony with the vita ports, so i dont think the vita is going anywhere its powerfull enough to handle the NX ports. 

In case you haven't noticed yet, I don't expect those next gen games to come to NX. Nintendo wants to grow both their home console and handheld sales, that's why they are going to go with a unified OS and development environment. Regardless of what device a consumer will choose, there will be a much steadier flow of software than currently, so higher consumer satisfaction. That in turn should result in higher sales.

If Nintendo cranks out more new IPs thanks to not having to make two separate versions of their biggest IPs anymore, then I could see them selling 200m+ NX devices. That sounds crazy, but in the seventh gen Nintendo sold more than 250m hardware units. However, it's better to be realistic than optimistic, so I'll say that NX is poised to beat the Wii U+3DS total as long as it is at least half-decently executed.

The Vita doesn't get Uncharted 4 and other PS4 games, so what are you even going on about? Nintendo obviously won't port their NX games to the Vita, and third parties won't have much of a reason either because the Vita simply doesn't sell much anywhere in the world.

But what youre saying is allready reality with japanese playstation games. They get constantley ported on ps3, ps4 and the vita like akiba strip and countless other japanese games are who choose minimalistic artistic style like nintendo does.

The vita is powerfull enough to compete with the NX and i really doubt the NX handheld will be more powerfull than the vita, if you look at the specs you can see that sonys handheld is almost 10 times more powerfull than the new 3DS from the looks of it.

So the vita could easily get the same ports from third parties on the NX. In fact it could benefit from new devoloped games who are designed for more powerfull hardware.