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Forums - Nintendo - The NX will be Nintendo's Dreamcast

I agree with the OP. I think Nintendo will continue to shun 3rd party AAA developers, and will pay the price.
We already see Nintendo fans upset because of lack of future vision for WiiU, and I doubt that NX will be able to attract anybody outside the existing fanbase. If those current fans start jumping ship, there will be very few people left willing to take a gamble with NX.
I see Nintendo in 2018 as a 3rd party software developer, with a strong focus on mobile (like most Japanese developers today), and a strong complementary toy business.



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padib said:
Burek said:

I agree with the OP. I think Nintendo will continue to shun 3rd party AAA developers, and will pay the price.
We already see Nintendo fans upset because of lack of future vision for WiiU, and I doubt that NX will be able to attract anybody outside the existing fanbase. If those current fans start jumping ship, there will be very few people left willing to take a gamble with NX.
I see Nintendo in 2018 as a 3rd party software developer, with a strong focus on mobile (like most Japanese developers today), and a strong complementary toy business.

What do you do with all the people that bought their handhelds steadily  every generation? What do you do with the potential audience Nintendo lost from Wii to WiiU. Did they just disappear?

Yes, people that bought a Wii disappeared. Most of them never had much interest in gaming anyway, and if they are gaming now it's by swiping or tilting their mobile device. People who bought handhelds steadily are declining even more steadily, with Nintendo basically having such luck to be able to sell small updated devices to the same people every few years. The next handheld will do even worse than 3DS (if 3DS did 50% of DS, next one will do 50% of 3DS numbers at most).

Without 3rd party hit games, Nintendo has no chance in appealing to a broader base. We already see that 10 million is the best case scenario for home consoles (number of Nintendo fans willing to play only those games), and by giving up support barely 3 years into the generation, Nintendo is certainly not making new fans any time soon. To think that those 10 million people will be willing to buy the next console so that they can be sold Mario, Zelda and Smash again is not realistic.

Nintendo has steadily refused to move into the 21st century, and that is the reason they are being left behind in the modern gaming environment.



padib said:

Again though, there really is no logic  to your prediction. What do you do about the combined launch library and Nintendo's proven track record of dominating the market with a baseline of at least the handheld library (if not more now given that you agree with me about software being prepped for the NX)?


oh I see now what the disconnect was. I did not explain WHY it will probably fail (or at least the console portion of it).

1. Killing the WiiU early (which I think the poor showing at E3 is a foreshadowing of) will put a bad taste in consumers mouths. I personally dont trust Nintendo anymore.

2. It will be launching in 2016 or 17, right into the prime of the XB1 and PS4. Against FF VII remake, Against Shemue 3, Against Elder Scrolls 6, against GT7, against all typical annual titles that likely will not be available on the NX, FF XV, Dragon Quest, KH, GTA6, TLOU2, Horizon, and many many more.  Even if Nintendo offers all of its top tier franchises in the 1st year it cant top that.

3. People still love Nintendo, but 3rd parties are king now. I personally dont believe that they can carry a console on their own like they did with the N64 and less successfully with the GC. They seem to have no relasionships these days with 3rd parties. Had the Gamecube had better branding, and launched with Spaceworld 2000 Zelda, Mario 128, Mario Kart and SSB:M it would have made a massive difference in 2001. In 2016 or 17 it would still help, but it wont it wont be enough to propel it for long (because after the initial blitz they dont have the 3rd party support to compete, and even if it does much better than anyone could predict it would take years for 3rd parties to finally drop big titles on it).

 

Its possible they could find lightning in a bottle again like they did with the Wii, I just find the scenario in the OP more likely.

At best it will see GameCube like success, and with Nintendo already showing they are willing to find profit on other platforms (Mobile devices), I think they will look to find profit on other consoles.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

NX will be a handheld. and while it wont be as succesfull as the 3DS it will still sell well. and it will support Amiibo's which are printing money for nintendo.



padib said:

So you think that the population of gamers can be found either playing violent games on the PS/XB or playing mediocre games on smartphones.

I'm afraid we'll have to disagree, and unfortunately history is on my side.


Of course not. There is a third type of gamers, but their number is not large enough to support a console.

And also, I cannot help if all you associate PS/XB with is violence. Perhaps you should sometime check out what they have to offer, you'd be pleasantly surprised.



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padib said:
Burek said:

Of course not. There is a third type of gamers, but their number is not large enough to support a console.

And also, I cannot help if all you associate PS/XB with is violence. Perhaps you should sometime check out what they have to offer, you'd be pleasantly surprised.

The majority of high-selling games on the PSXB are violent. I'm not saying something untrue, just trying to point to facts and show you that there are other types of tastes out there and hence other markets.

Hate to repeat myself - There are other tastes and other markets, but they are not large enough to support a console. They are enough to support a great software developer, and that's what Nintendo should focus on.

Unless they can bring "violence" to NX, they don't need to bother. See, there is a reason why the majority of high-selling games on PS/XB are violent.



padib said:

1. They did the same with the gamecube, it wasn't an issue. They released some games for both the cube and the Wii and some just jumped straight to the Wii (as we see from the Wii's large launch support and barren GC end of lifecycle).

2. Nintendo doesn't compete with that market, they are two separate markets. What Sony and MS do doesn't affect Nintendo's market anymore. About 60m people chose Nintendo consoles this gen, some also play PSXB but if they bought Nintendo then it means that the PSXB didn't stop them from making a purchase. This will be even more true with a unified library.

3. Nintendo doesn't need main 3rd party support. As the 3DS showed, it only needs the support of some key 3rd parties. If the 3DS could pull that off (MH, RE:R, Yokai Watch, ...), then a unified platform can pull it off all the more.

It's not about lightning in a bottle, it's about rinse and repeating. If they get lightning in a bottle then that's beyond the arguments I bring up.

At best they will have lightning in a bottle, at worse they will do a bit better than what they did combined this gen (80m). I think they will be just fine making full margin on their games on their own consoles rather than paying royalties to PSXB.


1. That was a shorter Gen to begin with(both Nintendo and MS flipped over the board game and said redo), and I agree if they can pull a Wii (lightning in a bottle) my whole theory goes out the window. But I also believe if the Wii had bombed Nintendo would have been making PS3 or 360 games by 2010. I recall comments about alluding to this from Iwata and Myamoto themselves (not the 3rd party part per se, but implying the Wii was a last shot, which is why they went bold... go bold or go home).

2. The WiiU is showing that they do. They just completely lost. If the did not complete against the PS4/XB1 the sales would look alot different, and if they are not competing, exactly who are they selling to? Whoever it is supposed to be is not buying their product.

3. This is not about handhelds and never was. I thought I even said they would continue on in the Handheld market. I think they go 3rd party on console games (or god forbid shift completely to handheld...)



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

padib said:
Burek said:

Hate to repeat myself - There are other tastes and other markets, but they are not large enough to support a console. They are enough to support a great software developer, and that's what Nintendo should focus on.

Unless they can bring "violence" to NX, they don't need to bother. See, there is a reason why the majority of high-selling games on PS/XB are violent.

So of the predictable 70-80m that will have bought Nintendo consoles this gen, you expect less to buy next gen despite the unified platform?

70-80 million? Where do you get that number from? Like there is no overlap in users, and no users that double/triple dipped on 3DS?

Yes, I expect less. I expect handheld part to continue shrinking (as I stated already). I think that outside Nintendo core, majority of handheld buyers are children, that will be older by 2016-17 and will move onto more mature games (what you call "violent" games). There will be little influx of new blood, as they will be primarily getting started on mobile in increasing numbers.

But, there is a huge discrepancy in handheld and home console sales because most of the former just don't feel like spending a lot of money on systems. To think that people will be willing to spend money on a unified platform (I don't know what it would cost, more than $300 for sure) when all they want is a quick on-the-go game is unrealistic to me.

If anything, forcing people to buy a unified platform will just decrease the market. Imagine the PS4 sales if you had to buy it bundled with Vita for $500-550. And of course, to think that just because a game can be played on both NX devices will suddenly cause a huge increase in sales, I doubt it.

 

Sure, there is a market for it, but that market is shrinking so rapidly. For Nintendo to think that they can, in 2016/17, launch a new console relying only on its own software, and be successful at it, they are in for a rude awakening. I think NX will be a complete disaster.



padib said:

Burek, in order to make a valid prediction you really need to know what the NX is. You're not buying two pieces of hardware. You're buying the piece of hardware you prefer (be it handheld, low-capable home console, high-capable home console, other options that only the future knows) at the price that best fits you. In other words, it's more reasonable to expect prices to be lower for NX than it was for the U. Or, that those who opt for a more expensive device were willing to pay the price.

I understand that you think that the new generation will gravitate to smartphones, but wasn't that generational influence already existent in the jump from DS to 3DS? Will the next generation be more affected by this trend? I don't see why they would be more susceptible than the previous wave, the logic doesn't convince me.


See, that's the problem I see here. I understand the way that NX should work. Basically, it would have been the same as if WiiU and 3DS had a capability to play the same games.

So now, with what you say is NX, when it has that capability, you expect that those 3DS and WiiU sales will just add up. But in actuality, the numbers will get divided, as 50 million is the most users that nintendo has this generation. And those numbers will keep declining.

Then, my quandary is this? If NX is as you say it is, why would it be counted as one machine. Won't it just be two separate machines, sold separately, just sharing the library? It just doesn't add up to me at all.

But, regardless of the technology and the specifications, I still believe that the entire NX project will live and die on the software level, and with AAA 3rd party completely uninterested in Nintendo, it will have no future. As is evident by the 25 year long decline of Nintendo's home consoles (interrupted by a short-lived mega-fad), less and less people are willing to limit themselves to just one entertainer, people's tastes have changed, and they demand a variety of choices that Nintendo consoles simply cannot offer to them.