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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do Zelda Console games take 5 years to develop.... ?

Pavolink said:

Glad to see many people understanding the problems with the management of the franchise. All those remakes this gen is something to worry, too.

As much as I love Skyward Sword, the games just shows perfectly the problems behind the curtain. That game should have been released at leatest on holiday 2009 without the Wii Motion Plus at launch, and a later game implemeting it.

 

Edited.


If only they could see it at Nintendo.  The whole Motion+ thing was a debacle really.  It should have been Wii 2.0 in HD, a whole new system with an improved Wii Remote, more power, HD visuals and a new Zelda.  The new Wii could have have fed off the original while it was still cool and before the casual crowd embraced XBox 360 in North America and PS3 elsewhere.  But that's a whole other and larger issue...



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bigtakilla said:
TK14 said:

WWHD came out 11 months after launch...not really a launch title. And Wii U was probably around 4-5 million by that point if I remember.

I'm not saying Zelda U couldn't do a respectable 3-4 million or more, but I just think Nintendo may be worried about investing so much $$ into an open-world, HD Zelda game (previously, Skyward Sword was their most expensive game to make, and because of its late release after Wii was dead, it didn't sell as well as they wanted it to) and then not getting a healthy profit return on it because of Wii U's puny install base. They will no doubt think of Twilight Princess, how it sold incredibly well on the new console and still a decent amount on the low install-base of the GameCube, AND helped sell the Wii at launch because a new-Zelda launch title is a HUGE deal. So if they dual-release on NX, they increase the sales/profits of Zelda U, as well as guarantee a strong NX launch (if its even a console and not a handheld that wouldn't be able to handle Zelda U anyway), which means a lot less risk after investing so much into the development of Zelda U. 

3.91 mil, so true a little more than I though (and a little less than you were saying) and true 11 months which is a little longer than a release title, but still earlier than any must have on the console. (that would come in Nov with 3D World). So the truth kind of lands in between. Still, even for a little less than 4 mil, 1.5 is pretty freaking good.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/35841/how-do-wii-us-sales-compare-to-nintendos-past-consoles (where I got the Sept numbers for the Wii U)

Well, WWHD slowly worked its way up to that total while Wii U went up to 6 million that holiday and then both crawled up to their current totals this past year. But, I definitely agree that 1.5 is respectable, even for Wii U's current install base of 9-10 million. And I have no doubt the new Zelda will move systems and sell 3 million or more, but I still do believe that Nintendo might go with the "better business decision" in terms of trying to maximize profit with a game they've invested so much into. 



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Animated features take four to five years as well.

If you're writing, doing look development, gameplay testing and all these things, it adds up. Particularly if you want to impress every time.

GTA games take a long time too.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Miyamotoo said:

Every new Zelda is becoming bigger and more complex, so its needed more time, especially if it is first HD, most open and with biggest world in any Zelda game.

OoT is considered for best game ever, not just best Zelda, so it's really hard that new Zelda (or every other game) will top OoT and 99 MetaScore. So we have fall of MetaScore from 95>93, evan from 99>93, is that relly big big problem!? Is that really for wake up call!? Because Zelda U looks very promising, it's too early but I can see it like best Zelda game after OoT.

Biggest problem with Skyward Sword where motion controls, I liked them, but some people didn't, also game required Motion Plus addon, that had huge impact on sale of game.

Like I said, 99 quality game probably will never happen again, all other Zelda scores are around 95 and SS is 93, thats not relly reason for Iwata to cracking heads. :)

Also, A Link Between Worlds is better Zelda game than few previous handheld Zelda's.

Going from SD to HD and to new hardware was big problem for whole Nintendo, not just Zelda team, not just Zelda team, but they overcome those problems.

As a fan of Zelda since its inception, SS had issues beyond the motion controls (though that was one problem).  Generally speaking, it had make-work missions that extended the game artificially, had a less than excellent art style (the bird designs were more Muppet than epic), and the whole prequel-origin aspect to me was dealt with only moderately well.  The world could have really been a primevil undesturbed wilderness, ancient and mysterious, but that only partially well executed.  This in contrast to the brilliantly executed OoT story or even the very clever MM theme.  SS is even fairly superior in theme and execution to SS.  Not a bad game, but for a 5 year development with a supposedly large and talented team, it's a minor let down.

I have high hopes for Zelda U, but the track record of the Anouma Zelda team since Yoshiaki Koizumi (and his creative plot writing and game mechanics) left to lead EAD Tokyo is not promising.  Double the time with measurably inferior results.

Skyward Sword isn't perfect certainly (what game is!?), but again its very good game, for me SS is better Zelda than TP.

I think that Motion Controls affect on long development of SS.

You sound like evry Zelda game is devolped long like SS and thats not true. Zelda U is completely different story, first HD Zelda, most open and biggest world in any Zelda game, certainly they can't finish game like that in only 2-3 years, especially with other projects, WW HD, A Link Between Worlds...   And like I wrote, every new Zelda is becoming bigger and more complex and need more time to be developed, you can't expect new Zelda game to be smaller and to be developed in less time.



Miyamotoo said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Miyamotoo said:

Every new Zelda is becoming bigger and more complex, so its needed more time, especially if it is first HD, most open and with biggest world in any Zelda game.

OoT is considered for best game ever, not just best Zelda, so it's really hard that new Zelda (or every other game) will top OoT and 99 MetaScore. So we have fall of MetaScore from 95>93, evan from 99>93, is that relly big big problem!? Is that really for wake up call!? Because Zelda U looks very promising, it's too early but I can see it like best Zelda game after OoT.

Biggest problem with Skyward Sword where motion controls, I liked them, but some people didn't, also game required Motion Plus addon, that had huge impact on sale of game.

Like I said, 99 quality game probably will never happen again, all other Zelda scores are around 95 and SS is 93, thats not relly reason for Iwata to cracking heads. :)

Also, A Link Between Worlds is better Zelda game than few previous handheld Zelda's.

Going from SD to HD and to new hardware was big problem for whole Nintendo, not just Zelda team, not just Zelda team, but they overcome those problems.

As a fan of Zelda since its inception, SS had issues beyond the motion controls (though that was one problem).  Generally speaking, it had make-work missions that extended the game artificially, had a less than excellent art style (the bird designs were more Muppet than epic), and the whole prequel-origin aspect to me was dealt with only moderately well.  The world could have really been a primevil undesturbed wilderness, ancient and mysterious, but that only partially well executed.  This in contrast to the brilliantly executed OoT story or even the very clever MM theme.  SS is even fairly superior in theme and execution to SS.  Not a bad game, but for a 5 year development with a supposedly large and talented team, it's a minor let down.

I have high hopes for Zelda U, but the track record of the Anouma Zelda team since Yoshiaki Koizumi (and his creative plot writing and game mechanics) left to lead EAD Tokyo is not promising.  Double the time with measurably inferior results.

Skyward Sword isn't perfect certainly (what game is!?), but again its very good game, for me SS is better Zelda than TP.

I think that Motion Controls affect on long development of SS.

You sound like evry Zelda game is devolped long like SS and thats not true. Zelda U is completely different story, first HD Zelda, most open and biggest world in any Zelda game, certainly they can't finish game like that in only 2-3 years, especially with other projects, WW HD, A Link Between Worlds...   And like I wrote, every new Zelda is becoming bigger and more complex and need more time to be developed, you can't expect new Zelda game to be smaller and to be developed in less time.

Me: Recent Zeldas have been of poorer quality but taking longer to make.

You: Starfighter is saying every Zelda is taking long like SS. 

 

Am I missing something?  How do you come up with that conclusion. 

I'm saying up to SS, Zelda games were made in 3 years and were at worst masterpieces and at best the greatest game made to date. SS bucked the trend, took twice as long and was one of the poorest received titles (still decent).  Now Zelda U is once again taking at least 5 years to release.  Like SS and WW, it seems like Aonouma is having a change of heart mid-production and majorly reworking the title. This is showing incompetence in leadership. If nothing else, with better foresight or decision making he could have produced twice as many titles or titles which are twice as good.

 

I would be more accepting of a 5 year development if the results were groundbreaking or exceptional in execution.  But we haven't seen that. We have seen the Zelda team toil for a year or two, rework the game, then release a product that is of lesser quality, innovation, impact and reception than its predecessors.

 

GTA V took the longest Dev time in the series yet, but few would argue that it offers the best GTA experience yet, and it has reviewed and sold as the best title in years.



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TheLastStarFighter said:

Me: Recent Zeldas have been of poorer quality but taking longer to make.

You: Starfighter is saying every Zelda is taking long like SS. 

 

Am I missing something?  How do you come up with that conclusion. 

I'm saying up to SS, Zelda games were made in 3 years and were at worst masterpieces and at best the greatest game made to date. SS bucked the trend, took twice as long and was one of the poorest received titles (still decent).  Now Zelda U is once again taking at least 5 years to release.  Like SS and WW, it seems like Aonouma is having a change of heart mid-production and majorly reworking the title. This is showing incompetence in leadership. If nothing else, with better foresight or decision making he could have produced twice as many titles or titles which are twice as good.

 

I would be more accepting of a 5 year development if the results were groundbreaking or exceptional in execution.  But we haven't seen that. We have seen the Zelda team toil for a year or two, rework the game, then release a product that is of lesser quality, innovation, impact and reception than its predecessors.

 

GTA V took the longest Dev time in the series yet, but few would argue that it offers the best GTA experience yet, and it has reviewed and sold as the best title in years.

I have to say, but the delay for Twilight Princess (that we know now was to make a Wii version, pissing the Cube fans) was not exactly the best. The first concept showed was more interesting than the final version (more open world, boat riding on Ordon Village, dark world being darker, etc).

I fear the same happens this time and game is released with a smaller world, or less features, or even less dungeons.



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TheLastStarFighter said:
tolu619 said:


This is not only completely false, it's also completely impossible. I'd advise you to get your facts right before you just say things. Let me attempt to say this in a way a layman would understand: What you have said is akin to claiming that Windows 95 and Windows 10 run on the same engine, and all the variations of windows in-between have just been improving the visuals and changing the unique hook. The architecture is different. The possibilities are different. The challenges are different. The design philosophy is different. For you to even think its possible for the same engine to have been used from the N64 days till now reeks of pure ignorance. Think about car engines or whatever field you have more expertise in, and try to think about your statement again.

This post is a hilarous collection of misinformation.  I'll attept to explain why in laymans terms.

A close family member of mine worked on Windows for decades.  And yes, each version simply builds of the previous iteration.  they salvage as much as they can, to build a Windows level OS from scratch would be a massive undertaking, and also stupid.  They salvage as much as they can.  Of course Windows 95 and Windows 10 are vastly different due to the many additions in that time, but each version of Windows did evolve and reuse much of the previous iteration.   Windows 8, for example, was such a mess in large part because they used the bones of Windows 7 but attempted to plaster the tile interface over it.

Whe it comes to games, Rockstar North started with this great product:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnocQS1maqg

which, crazy enough, had all the basic elements of GTA.  The character animation, the camera, the gun fights, the stealing of vehicles.  All designed for Body Harvest.  They took that game, expanded on it, created a new graphical skin, etc, and made GTA III.  All subsequent GTA's have used the same ever-evolving bones, expanding, adding polygons, content, features, etc.;  but GTA V was by no means a "from scratch" game.

Zelda is the same.  The fundamental gameplay engine was created for N64's OoT along with Mario 64.  OoT, of course, would use nothing from the previous title, ALttP, but every title since has built off the OoT engine and gameplay.  Other than diversions into motion control, they all play exactly the same.

Where Anouma and crew get into sensless delays, is in their contstant re-skinning of the graphical assets for new "artstyles".  Or in their creation of new gameplay hooks like changing into a wolf - something that I think most would agree added little.

The underlined statements are true, yet do nothing to disprove my statement or prove yours. The fact that you can't see this shows how little you know about the technical details. You are saying that having the same core gameplay means having the same engine. They are not the same at all. I wrote a game in Conitec's 3D Gamestudio, and an Ideal Gas Law Simulator also. I want to port both software to multiple platforms, including mobile, so I'm going to redo the entire thing in Unity. Even if I don't make any tweaks or add any new features, even if it's the EXACT SAME SOFTWARE, they are running on completely different engines. Now, I didn't make either 3D Gamestudio nor Unity, but if I had to add the development of the engine to my development time, that would count for something. I can make a board game with Unity. My Ideal Gas Law simulator, racing game and board game can all run on the same engine. Gameplay is not equal to engine.

I wrote a simple Gif Image Viewer for windows. It was built with the .NET 3.5 framework, and won't run on a computer that has the .NET 4.5 framework, unless that computer also has the .NET 3.5 framework installed. When  making web apps with java, certain features may be implemented using the Tomcat server, and won't run on a Glassfish server, or vice versa, even if they are both running the same version of Java (let's say Java 6). I repeat: get your facts right before spouting out ignorant talk like you did earlier. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, as long as you're willing to learn and correct yourself.



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I do think Zelda is probably inferior in terms of value to Nintendo in comparison with things like 2D Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon, etc

But Zelda (along with 3D mario) has long since been their flagship series when it comes to game design and technological innovation. They spend so long because the series has such a high standard, the games are usually quite large, and they're always trying to get something new into them.



tolu619 said:

 

 


So you had to convert a program to Unity

 OMG! Doesn't change the fact that Window, GTA and Zelda are all heavily built on previous gens. Get it together champ!

 



Lets be real I doubt they are using the 5 years to develop the game. Probably spend 2 years playing around with ideas