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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Fans Vs. Third-Party Developers & Entitlement

captain carot on 29 May 2015

3DS is doing good. At the same time there's the decline of handhelds. So this is still doing well, being the only handheld selling at all but at the same time doing worse than DS and GBA in the same timeframe.
Handheld business has become pretty difficult and it looks like it will get more difficult in the future.

Wii U is a different story though. And mixing 3DS and Wii U is a bit like saying PS4 isnt such a success because Vita flops hard.

Handheld gaming is different. So you can't just say they don't need western publishers for their home consoles.
Right now they would need them to have a more apealing console. Because of games. And games people wanna play.
People buy consoles for FIFA, CoD, AC, GTA..., they just don't buy a Nintendo console for them. Which is one of the reasons Wii U still is below 10 million sold.

Then there's NX. People expect a lot of things from NX. Handheld only, melting handheld and console to a real fusion...
What if NX was streaming Nintendo games?
Nobody knows what NX is yet. Not really. And it won't help the current situation.

Wii U is a console basically for the Nintendo crowd and yes, maybe kids. It's that Nintendo crowd that only buys Nintendo games, which actually is not helping the hardware.



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Soundwave on 29 May 2015
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:


If they want to sell more than 20 million home consoles ever again they probably do. Japan doesn't buy any consoles so they're out, almost all console sales are in the West, and it's kind of a long term dead end to try and sell game hardware to the Western audience with no Western games. 

I don't know honestly. Nintendo's in a tough spot, because they really I don't think can adequetely compete with Sony/MS, so I dunno. I think NX is going to be profitable for them, but they're going to expand more into where things like their non-traditional business lines -- mobile games, movie franchising, theme park tie-ins, etc. eventually makes more money for them than traditional gaming does. 

Kind of like how Marvel Comics branched out far beyond just comics or LEGO makes a lot of money these days outside of just selling toy blocks. That's kinda where I think Nintendo is headed. 

They have done OK with the 3DS in the West, but their handheld line is also suffering massive losses in the West and that erosion becomes more and more obvious every year. I don't know if they'll be able to match the 3DS' sales in the West next time out, 3DS still sorta benefitted from at least early on not having such a soldified mobile gaming landscape to compete against (holiday 2011 in particular was a good one of the 3DS in the West, but the wheels fell off after that). 


Well like I said, when talking about Nintendo u have to look at the company as a whole and not just one segment of it, Nintendo being able to sell over 40 million (over 50 million when all is said and done) units of hardware in the West without the need of the big western games is proof that they don't need those games.

Who cares if those divisions end up making more money for Nintendo than their tradition gaming division does? Are u implying that Nintendo is simply going to abandon that market just because other things are more profitable? As long as their gaming business is making money and they sell a bunch of hardware & software than they aren't leaving the business.

Diversifying and expanding is probably going to more beneficial than detrimental for the gaming business by increasing brand awareness through these other divisions along with Nintendo being able to take more risks with their gaming business because the company will no longer be 100% dependant on the success of gaming.

Assuming they can hold every single (or even most) of their 3DS base for the next cycle, sure. I'm not so sure however that it's so simple. 

A seperate gaming handheld is becoming more and more of a tougher sell I think. A lot of people just feel like they don't need it and truth be told, they're probably not wrong. Free/$1 friendly looking smartphone games chew up the down time most people have during the average day outside of the house, and kids take to tablets/phones like fish to water. 

Like this year will be the lowest worldwide shipment for Nintendo handhelds in something like 18 years (last year was the previous lowest in that time frame) even with a new 3DS revision. That can't be good. 

Can they can turn this around with the NX ... I'm not sure. This isn't so much a product issue (as in the 3DS and Vita were low quality products, they're both actually quite good devices), it's more of a lifestyle change, and traditional handhelds are on the wrong end of it. 



zorg1000 on 29 May 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:


Well like I said, when talking about Nintendo u have to look at the company as a whole and not just one segment of it, Nintendo being able to sell over 40 million (over 50 million when all is said and done) units of hardware in the West without the need of the big western games is proof that they don't need those games.

Who cares if those divisions end up making more money for Nintendo than their tradition gaming division does? Are u implying that Nintendo is simply going to abandon that market just because other things are more profitable? As long as their gaming business is making money and they sell a bunch of hardware & software than they aren't leaving the business.

Diversifying and expanding is probably going to more beneficial than detrimental for the gaming business by increasing brand awareness through these other divisions along with Nintendo being able to take more risks with their gaming business because the company will no longer be 100% dependant on the success of gaming.

Assuming they can hold every single (or even most) of their 3DS base for the next cycle, sure. I'm not so sure however that it's so simple. 

A seperate gaming handheld is becoming more and more of a tougher sell I think. A lot of people just feel like they don't need it and truth be told, they're probably not wrong. Free/$1 friendly looking smartphone games chew up the down time most people have during the average day outside of the house, and kids take to tablets/phones like fish to water. 

Like this year will be the lowest worldwide shipment for Nintendo handhelds in something like 18 years (last year was the previous lowest in that time frame) even with a new 3DS revision. That can't be good. 

Can they can turn this around with the NX ... I'm not sure. This isn't so much a product issue (as in the 3DS and Vita were low quality products, they're both actually quite good devices), it's more of a lifestyle change, and traditional handhelds are on the wrong end of it. 

No, it's not simple, Nintendo has to work their asses off to maintain and regain their target audience but that doesn't mean it's impossible like so many people on here like to pretend. They will need to adapt and come up with a sound strategy and implement it well like they did with DS/Wii, which is something they didn't do with 3DS/Wii U.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

oniyide on 29 May 2015
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:


they put two AC games on Wii U and they both bombed but all of a sudden you would buy Rouge? a game that is heavily tied to the two ones prior? right

what are these games you want? Cause GTA is out the window.

How do u know he didn't buy the other Assassin's Creed games on Wii U?

cause said if they had released other AC games on the WIi u which tells me he didnt know, pretty cut and dry.



oniyide on 29 May 2015
se7en7thre3 said:

Very true, MS just cleaned up the scraps that was already taken mostly by PS.  But to your point about using ninty chars. in some 3rd party games, there was ONE GC gm that performed the best of the 3, and that was the Soul calibur w/Link.  

My thing is, why not try to rectify the situation, don't take gamers for granted and don't flat out give up any segment of the game community.  Nintendo has lost a lot of respect for no longer "competing".  this passive aggressive, we're not really competing nonsense has to come to an end other wise Ninty will end up bullied out of business and become 3rd party/toy maker. 


this is false. THe PS2 version of SC2 still sold the best.

but the 2nd paragraph is dead on, they dont have the fight anymore



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oniyide on 29 May 2015
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

Third parties just don't need Nintendo. Now that there are two better alternatives for them in Sony and MS, Nintendo just isn't needed.


Basically the big western publishers & Nintendo have different views on the types of games they make and this leads to them attracting different audiences so western 3rd parties don't need Nintendo & Nintendo doesn't need western 3rd parties.


this is funny to me becasue the truth is western devs have actually tried way more on WiiU than any japanese publisher. Hell Ubi published more games on Wii U than Namco and Squeenix combined. One of those SE games was actually from there westeren devs (deus ex HR)



zorg1000 on 29 May 2015
oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:


Basically the big western publishers & Nintendo have different views on the types of games they make and this leads to them attracting different audiences so western 3rd parties don't need Nintendo & Nintendo doesn't need western 3rd parties.


this is funny to me becasue the truth is western devs have actually tried way more on WiiU than any japanese publisher. Hell Ubi published more games on Wii U than Namco and Squeenix combined. One of those SE games was actually from there westeren devs (deus ex HR)

Like I said earlier, when I talk about Nintendo, I'm talking about them as a whole, in which case Nintendo has currently sold about 60 million units of hardware based on the strength of 1st party franchises and Japanese/indie/child friendly games as support titles from 3rd parties.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 on 29 May 2015
oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:

How do u know he didn't buy the other Assassin's Creed games on Wii U?

cause said if they had released other AC games on the WIi u which tells me he didnt know, pretty cut and dry.


Nope, that's not what he said



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

MikeRox on 29 May 2015

With the loss of the 3DS FIFA, another behemoth franchise has departed from Nintendo hardware.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

oniyide on 29 May 2015
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:


this is funny to me becasue the truth is western devs have actually tried way more on WiiU than any japanese publisher. Hell Ubi published more games on Wii U than Namco and Squeenix combined. One of those SE games was actually from there westeren devs (deus ex HR)

Like I said earlier, when I talk about Nintendo, I'm talking about them as a whole, in which case Nintendo has currently sold about 60 million units of hardware based on the strength of 1st party franchises and Japanese/indie/child friendly games as support titles from 3rd parties.

And as always im talking about the console since that is the one having the most problems. Handhelds is something that could be discussed in another thread.