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Forums - Gaming - Will MS ever win a generation?

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Samus Aran on 20 April 2015
Tachikoma said:
Samus Aran said:

The information is all published online. Nintendo posted higher operating income for most years than the gaming sector of Sony. They also sell much more first party games.

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2008/05/30/playstation-2-may-have-won-last-generations-sales-battle-but-it-lost-the-console-war/

From the very site you posted.

**** The operating income listed above is only for the division of each company that handles their video game console business. For Sony this is the Networked Products & Services Division (formally the Game Division), Microsoft’s results are from their Entertainment and Devices Division and Nintendo’s numbers exclude their earnings from “other investments”. Because of this the amounts reported contain operating income from sources other than the home video game consoles.  Sony’s results include sales of  the PSP, VAIO PCs, Walkman, etc.  Microsoft’s EDD includes the Zune, PC games, various hardware products, etc. Nintendo’s earnings include GameBoy, DS and software income.

I.E. Included substantial losses caused by the failings of the walkman and vaio pc/laptop sectors, sectors that did so terribly the company would later essentially sell it off to an outside party.
Just how far will you push these goalposts exactly?you've already gone from "its not about sales its about income", to "but lets include handhelds too" and now "lets compare net losses for entire divisions between a company that does virtually nothing outside of its games to one experiencing extreme losses in entirely different but still associated in financial reports sectors".

If you have to push it that far for a victory, it's a pretty hollow victory indeed.

Actually the article I posted (and got the images from) said this:

"Lastly, to make the comparison as fair as possible I only included the most current reported operating income from the company’s division that handles home console sales. Sony’s Game Division, Microsoft’s Home and Entertainment (later named Entertainment and Devices Division), and Nintendo’s operating income (excluding investment income). The problem here is that these divisions all include sources of income other than that from the sale of home consoles. Sony Game Division has revenue from it’s PSP. Nintendo’s operating income includes the Gameboy and DS. And Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices Division includes PC games and the Zune among other things. Even with these extra incomes included I still believe that a comparison between the three companies at this level is appropriate. For those that care, detailed operating income numbers and links to the sources used are available at the end of this article.."



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Goodnightmoon on 20 April 2015
Dr.Vita said:
Nope, neither Microsoft nor Nintendo will win another generation.

Because only Sony can win forever and ever from now to eternity, right? 



Tachikoma on 20 April 2015
Samus Aran said:

Actually the article I posted (and got the images from) said this:

"Sony Game Division has revenue from it’s PSP. Nintendo’s operating income includes the Gameboy and DS. And Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices Division includes PC games and the Zune among other things. Even with these extra incomes included I still believe that a comparison between the three companies at this level is appropriate. For those that care, detailed operating income numbers and links to the sources used are available at the end of this article."

Your first image is from here:

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/06/28/state-of-the-video-game-console-war/

And clearly states what I pasted, that exact statement remains true for the second image even if he does not say so the second time, as he is still basing his net incomes off of entire divisions rather than narrowing it down specifically to gaming only.

So again, the Sony numbers and MS numbers would be being dragged down, significantly, from their failing sectors such as walkman, vaio, cellular phones and for MS, its audio devices and communications equipment.

Like I said, if you have to roll back the margin all the way to operating costs for entire company divisions to gain yourself a win, it's a hollow one and you end up looking pretty desperate in doing so.



BruB on 20 April 2015

Not unless it can get users outside of USA / North America and the UK to like them more. When it comes to gaming the rest of the world just seems to not be as keen to buy XBOX systems. The Wii U is in second place in France and probably in other countries to. I don't know what they could do to rectify this.

I actually think if the Original XBOX had Dreamcast ability when launched as suggested by Sega's then President. They may have had that foot in the door to appeal to more Japanese and Sega fans worldwide. But i think this was a big mistake as it could have only helped them without hindering anything at all.

Chances are PS and Nintendo would have not gotten all those exclusives , Virtua Fighter 4 ,Yakuza and many more would have been XBOX only.

It was a mistake that may have cost them in the long run.



BRKITG

torok on 20 April 2015
Tachikoma said:
 

From the very site you posted.

**** The operating income listed above is only for the division of each company that handles their video game console business. For Sony this is the Networked Products & Services Division (formally the Game Division), Microsoft’s results are from their Entertainment and Devices Division and Nintendo’s numbers exclude their earnings from “other investments”. Because of this the amounts reported contain operating income from sources other than the home video game consoles.  Sony’s results include sales of  the PSP, VAIO PCs, Walkman, etc.  Microsoft’s EDD includes the Zune, PC games, various hardware products, etc. Nintendo’s earnings include GameBoy, DS and software income.

I.E. Included substantial losses caused by the failings of the walkman and vaio pc/laptop sectors, sectors that did so terribly the company would later essentially sell it off to an outside party.
Just how far will you push these goalposts exactly?you've already gone from "its not about sales its about income", to "but lets include handhelds too" and now "lets compare net losses for entire divisions between a company that does virtually nothing outside of its games to one experiencing extreme losses in entirely different but still associated in financial reports sectors".

If you have to push it that far for a victory, it's a pretty hollow victory indeed.


Don't lose your time arguing with him. He reuses these same plots every month in some random post. He has and agenda an will blindly follow that, just posting absurd information until you quit trying to argue and he can imagine that he won an argument in an imaginary world.

 

User was warned for this post.

--Veknoid_Outcast



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

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Samus Aran on 20 April 2015
Tachikoma said:
Samus Aran said:

Actually the article I posted (and got the images from) said this:

"Sony Game Division has revenue from it’s PSP. Nintendo’s operating income includes the Gameboy and DS. And Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices Division includes PC games and the Zune among other things. Even with these extra incomes included I still believe that a comparison between the three companies at this level is appropriate. For those that care, detailed operating income numbers and links to the sources used are available at the end of this article."

Your first image is from here:

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/06/28/state-of-the-video-game-console-war/

And clearly states what I pasted, that exact statement remains true for the second image even if he does not say so the second time, as he is still basing his net incomes off of entire divisions rather than narrowing it down specifically to gaming only.

So again, the Sony numbers and MS numbers would be being dragged down, significantly, from their failing sectors such as walkman, vaio, cellular phones and for MS, its audio devices and communications equipment.

Like I said, if you have to roll back the margin all the way to operating costs for entire company divisions to gain yourself a win, it's a hollow one and you end up looking pretty desperate in doing so.

Not really, Sony is a huge company and couldn't even dream of the profits Nintendo posted. 2012 was the first time Nintendo posted a loss since they started publishing their operating income in 1981. That's something the Playstation brand can't claim.

And since when did Sony sell the Walkman?



StuOhQ on 20 April 2015

No.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger on 20 April 2015

XB: First Loser
XB 360: First/Second Loser
XBO: First Loser

Consistent



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t3mporary_126 on 20 April 2015

Anything can happen! But history seems to generally side home consoles to Playstation and even Nintendo (both won/will win 3 generations but Playstation only lost one) and handhelds to Nintendo (ignoring smart devices). But who knows? Very few of us predicted Nintendo would win with the Wii and Microsoft had a good chance this generation but faced the DRM fiasco and high launch price.

Maybe if Sony messes up badly next generation and Microsoft doesn't get involved with a huge media backlash the generation afterwards, Microsoft could win if Nintendo messes up and continues its decline on home console sales.

But this would all have to happen before another paradigm shift affects the game industry which may eliminate the need of home consoles entirely and console wars become publisher/studio wars instead.



Tachikoma on 20 April 2015
Samus Aran said:

Not really, Sony is a huge company and couldn't even dream of the profits Nintendo posted. 2012 was the first time Nintendo posted a loss since they started publishing their operating income in 1981. That's something the Playstation brand can't claim.

And since when did Sony sell the Walkman?


Alright then, lets play your game, i'll push the boat out a little further, since you want to stop at comparing entire divisions, the next step is comparing the companies.

Nintendo's (NTDOY) market cap : 20.17B
Sony's (SNE) market cap : 34.85B
Microsoft's (MSFT) market cap : 353.34B

Thus, Xbox has won every single generation because Microsoft overall ends each year with the highest cap.