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Forums - Nintendo - Xenoblade Chronicles X could have gotten a downgrade

 

Would it matter to you a downgrade in XCX?

Yes 144 29.45%
 
No 266 54.40%
 
See results 79 16.16%
 
Total:489
Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

I see more texture and geometric detail on the building exteriors of NLA, higher resolution ground textures in the field, and mountains added on the left of the landscape gif.

The crude, choppy attack animations and close-range pop-in/out of the reveal trailer also appear to be fixed.

What am I missing?

So the first issue we must address is the difference in perspective, the original shot was taken with a wider pan, further away from the primary structures, as a result of that the overall screenspace for textures to display in is reduced, note how in the second screenshot the base zoom locks to the step portion of the bridge visible midway across on the original image, with that in mind lets continue.

1) The original lighter textures have bump mapping, as illustrated by the shadow shimmer present along the left side of the structure in the original picture (displayed as almost a banding effect), these textures are also, despite the wider angle shot, higher resolution than the ones in the newer image, the structure itself is also more intricate with actual geometry used to form the triangular portion at the top, and a curved edge along the left side, this structure has been simplified and the upper triangular geometry removed to save mesh complexity in favor of drawn-in details on textures.

2) Mirroring 1, theres more texture and geometrical detail in the original here, with vent flaps and piping being realized in 3d, then drawn in as texture in the newer version.

3) Geometry of the main towers base has taken a hit in geometrical detail too, with the once smooth curve of the front supporting structure shaved down to a more angular curve, its possible to make out the edge faces from the dark beam just above the 3, there the model splits, it's likely that the orignal model was one structure and the new model is build from multiple basic structures.

4) hard to be sure but the structure of the walkway seems to have lost a fair amount of structural quality despite the newer image being closer, you would expect more to be visible here not less.

5) obvious and quite clear textures for the top of the tower have been lost and in their place more optimized (lower desnity) mesh with, likely, repeated or lower resolution textures.

6) Here we see a copy of the orginal tower in 1 from a different perspective and it underlines the difference in geometrical detailing ever further.

7) A walled gate that in the original was done in 3d and it's primary pillars reflected this fact in their lighting now stands using textures in place of geometry, and does not cast shadows upon itself based on this geometry as in the original, because the geometry is no longer there to do it.

8) Despite very similar direction of primary light source, the tower in 9 and arguably the tower between 7 and 8 to it's left cast clean shadows in the original, these shadows are nonexistant in the newer image.

9) The geometry of the tower itself is also reduced giving it a much more box-ish style without the staggered upper portions.

10) In the original the towers glass reflects both the oncoming lightsource and refracts the haze cast over the city, which in turn lights up the far left of the structures glass with a blue tinted light color, this reflective property is missing completely in the newer build, indicating either a paired back lighting system (which seems to be corroberated by the overall lighting differences in OP's video) or the simplification of the materials shader.

 

What we are looking at is a retexture of assets with some assets receiving lower quality textures, a fair amount of the geometry paired back and details that were once geometrical pushed over to texture data to save processing demand, it's likely that the change to a darker texture scheme was done to help bridge the difference in lighting quality, as darker textures hide the absense of high quality lighting better than light ones.

I'm not trying to bash the game here, and i'm still going to be picking it up, and I will defend both the game and the WiiU in places where people try to unjustly talk shit about it, but I'm not the type to sit here and willingly brush this sort of thing under the rug, even if I'm labeled a Nintendo hater in the process of doing so.

The game has, undoubtably, seen a considerable level of change since its original showing and the 2015 direct, and for the most part that has resulted in lower quality visuals.

As a developer I regonize the reasons for doing so and that most games go through the process, as a gamer however, I don't condone pretending something is higher quality when it isnt.

Can ask you a favor? When you have the time, can you make a similar analysis to the Zelda HD E3 2011 demo? and tell us if the Wii U can hand a whole game like that?

Thanks.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

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Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

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Pavolink said:
Tachikoma said:

So the first issue we must address is the difference in perspective, the original shot was taken with a wider pan, further away from the primary structures, as a result of that the overall screenspace for textures to display in is reduced, note how in the second screenshot the base zoom locks to the step portion of the bridge visible midway across on the original image, with that in mind lets continue.

1) The original lighter textures have bump mapping, as illustrated by the shadow shimmer present along the left side of the structure in the original picture (displayed as almost a banding effect), these textures are also, despite the wider angle shot, higher resolution than the ones in the newer image, the structure itself is also more intricate with actual geometry used to form the triangular portion at the top, and a curved edge along the left side, this structure has been simplified and the upper triangular geometry removed to save mesh complexity in favor of drawn-in details on textures.

2) Mirroring 1, theres more texture and geometrical detail in the original here, with vent flaps and piping being realized in 3d, then drawn in as texture in the newer version.

3) Geometry of the main towers base has taken a hit in geometrical detail too, with the once smooth curve of the front supporting structure shaved down to a more angular curve, its possible to make out the edge faces from the dark beam just above the 3, there the model splits, it's likely that the orignal model was one structure and the new model is build from multiple basic structures.

4) hard to be sure but the structure of the walkway seems to have lost a fair amount of structural quality despite the newer image being closer, you would expect more to be visible here not less.

5) obvious and quite clear textures for the top of the tower have been lost and in their place more optimized (lower desnity) mesh with, likely, repeated or lower resolution textures.

6) Here we see a copy of the orginal tower in 1 from a different perspective and it underlines the difference in geometrical detailing ever further.

7) A walled gate that in the original was done in 3d and it's primary pillars reflected this fact in their lighting now stands using textures in place of geometry, and does not cast shadows upon itself based on this geometry as in the original, because the geometry is no longer there to do it.

8) Despite very similar direction of primary light source, the tower in 9 and arguably the tower between 7 and 8 to it's left cast clean shadows in the original, these shadows are nonexistant in the newer image.

9) The geometry of the tower itself is also reduced giving it a much more box-ish style without the staggered upper portions.

10) In the original the towers glass reflects both the oncoming lightsource and refracts the haze cast over the city, which in turn lights up the far left of the structures glass with a blue tinted light color, this reflective property is missing completely in the newer build, indicating either a paired back lighting system (which seems to be corroberated by the overall lighting differences in OP's video) or the simplification of the materials shader.

 

What we are looking at is a retexture of assets with some assets receiving lower quality textures, a fair amount of the geometry paired back and details that were once geometrical pushed over to texture data to save processing demand, it's likely that the change to a darker texture scheme was done to help bridge the difference in lighting quality, as darker textures hide the absense of high quality lighting better than light ones.

I'm not trying to bash the game here, and i'm still going to be picking it up, and I will defend both the game and the WiiU in places where people try to unjustly talk shit about it, but I'm not the type to sit here and willingly brush this sort of thing under the rug, even if I'm labeled a Nintendo hater in the process of doing so.

The game has, undoubtably, seen a considerable level of change since its original showing and the 2015 direct, and for the most part that has resulted in lower quality visuals.

As a developer I regonize the reasons for doing so and that most games go through the process, as a gamer however, I don't condone pretending something is higher quality when it isnt.

Can ask you a favor? When you have the time, can you make a similar analysis to the Zelda HD E3 2011 demo? and tell us if the Wii U can hand a whole game like that?

Thanks.

The wii u can handle a whole game in higher quality than that. Xenoblade X and zelda U jump to mind.



Tachikoma said:
my copy arrives in a little over a week, si ill do a detailed graphical analysis then with 1080p captures.

Also the use of motion blur doesnt make up for the texture and structural downgrades, and can be used to hide low poly / low texture detail objects, going off of the scene changes, i'd say it was part a aesthetical choice and part a cost saving measure on resources that the number of dolls in the scene was greatly reduced. as well as much of the internal geometry of the buildings interior.

But hey, ill cover it in more detail with pictures once the retail copy arrives, and if i can get clearance from mono/EAD i'll cross compare with footage I took of an early devkit build.

I also think the first trailer looked better. But the only thing that currently bugs me is the city and first area. The other areas look great, mostly thanks to a good art style and world design. I'd be more interested in a gameplay analysis by the way (from the perspective of a game developer), but maybe that's not your forte. 

It's understandable when you know the scope of the game.

Still, I'd like to see Retro Studios work on an open world game. They always make some of the most gorgeous games for their respective system. Did you ever come in contact with them (through Nintendo SPD)? 

Did you have to close off your public profile because of Sony or something? :p More reason to hate them. :D  I said in a joking manner



Damn fantastic analysis Tachi. Please do more of those for other games, and I look forward to your thoughts on XCX.



https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png%5B/IMG%5D">https://www.trueachievements.com/gamer/SliferCynDelta"><img src="https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png






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Wyrdness said:




Looks delicious.



Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

I see more texture and geometric detail on the building exteriors of NLA, higher resolution ground textures in the field, and mountains added on the left of the landscape gif.

The crude, choppy attack animations and close-range pop-in/out of the reveal trailer also appear to be fixed.

What am I missing?

So the first issue we must address is the difference in perspective, the original shot was taken with a wider pan, further away from the primary structures, as a result of that the overall screenspace for textures to display in is reduced, note how in the second screenshot the base zoom locks to the step portion of the bridge visible midway across on the original image, with that in mind lets continue.

1) The original lighter textures have bump mapping, as illustrated by the shadow shimmer present along the left side of the structure in the original picture (displayed as almost a banding effect), these textures are also, despite the wider angle shot, higher resolution than the ones in the newer image, the structure itself is also more intricate with actual geometry used to form the triangular portion at the top, and a curved edge along the left side, this structure has been simplified and the upper triangular geometry removed to save mesh complexity in favor of drawn-in details on textures.

2) Mirroring 1, theres more texture and geometrical detail in the original here, with vent flaps and piping being realized in 3d, then drawn in as texture in the newer version.

3) Geometry of the main towers base has taken a hit in geometrical detail too, with the once smooth curve of the front supporting structure shaved down to a more angular curve, its possible to make out the edge faces from the dark beam just above the 3, there the model splits, it's likely that the orignal model was one structure and the new model is build from multiple basic structures.

4) hard to be sure but the structure of the walkway seems to have lost a fair amount of structural quality despite the newer image being closer, you would expect more to be visible here not less.

5) obvious and quite clear textures for the top of the tower have been lost and in their place more optimized (lower desnity) mesh with, likely, repeated or lower resolution textures.

6) Here we see a copy of the orginal tower in 1 from a different perspective and it underlines the difference in geometrical detailing ever further.

7) A walled gate that in the original was done in 3d and it's primary pillars reflected this fact in their lighting now stands using textures in place of geometry, and does not cast shadows upon itself based on this geometry as in the original, because the geometry is no longer there to do it.

8) Despite very similar direction of primary light source, the tower in 9 and arguably the tower between 7 and 8 to it's left cast clean shadows in the original, these shadows are nonexistant in the newer image.

9) The geometry of the tower itself is also reduced giving it a much more box-ish style without the staggered upper portions.

10) In the original the towers glass reflects both the oncoming lightsource and refracts the haze cast over the city, which in turn lights up the far left of the structures glass with a blue tinted light color, this reflective property is missing completely in the newer build, indicating either a paired back lighting system (which seems to be corroberated by the overall lighting differences in OP's video) or the simplification of the materials shader.

 

What we are looking at is a retexture of assets with some assets receiving lower quality textures, a fair amount of the geometry paired back and details that were once geometrical pushed over to texture data to save processing demand, it's likely that the change to a darker texture scheme was done to help bridge the difference in lighting quality, as darker textures hide the absense of high quality lighting better than light ones.

I'm not trying to bash the game here, and i'm still going to be picking it up, and I will defend both the game and the WiiU in places where people try to unjustly talk shit about it, but I'm not the type to sit here and willingly brush this sort of thing under the rug, even if I'm labeled a Nintendo hater in the process of doing so.

The game has, undoubtably, seen a considerable level of change since its original showing and the 2015 direct, and for the most part that has resulted in lower quality visuals.

As a developer I regonize the reasons for doing so and that most games go through the process, as a gamer however, I don't condone pretending something is higher quality when it isnt.

Sublime analysis. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Samus Aran said:

Did you ever come in contact with them (through Nintendo SPD)? 

Did you have to close off your public profile because of Sony or something? :p More reason to hate them. :D  I said in a joking manner

not through nintendo no, i know a few people in the studio though.

also, if i told you the details behind the last bit, id have to kill you.



i dont really care about graphic as long as it is"average"



sry for my bad english - it is not my 1st language

9 days till in depth tech analysis, lol