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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The financials behind Nintendo going 3rd party

zorg1000 on 07 April 2015
Teeqoz said:
zorg1000 said:

In that case wouldn't it be more beneficial for Nintendo to divert all resources to their handheld and perhaps release a Vita TV-like device for the small group of people who prefer playing on a TV instead of spreading themselves thin making games for PS/XB/PC while still trying to support their handheld?


"The small group of people who prefer to play on a TV" lol. Small compared to mobile, bigger than the group that plays on handhelds though.

 

But no, it wouldn't. Nintendo can/ will only release on Mario Kart on heir next handheld. That might sell 10 million or something. Now what would happen to the team that makes home console MKs? If they do what you say, focus all effort on their handheld, those people will have to work on something else, which is basically guaranteed to not do as well as a multiplat Mario Kart would do.

 

How about a middle ground? The smaller Nintendo titles (FE, etc. you know what I mean) could go to their handheld, but they'd release thr big titles, the ones that are likely to take off as multiplat games, and that normally also get one handheld release (MK, 3D Mario, Zelda, SSB etc.) could be multiplat home console games. That way they'd focus more on their handheld than they do now, and only release the occasional huge titles for home consoles. The good thing about this is that it allows Nintendo to spread their resources however they like. They no longer need to worry about droughts on their home console, so they can release smaller titles on their handhelds we're they're more likely to do well than on their home consoles, but rake in the profits from the huge titles like MK etc.

I don't mean the home console market is small, I'm saying the Nintendo home market is small.

Well for one, there is no written rule banning Nintendo from releasing 2 Mario Kart titles on a single platform, they could realistically release Mario Kart 9 in 2017 then Mario Kart 10 in 2020. Two, by making all games for a single device, Nintendo is able to diversify their portfolio if they choose not to make 2 of every franchise, the amount of new IP or revived IP would grow by a pretty large amount making the device a much more attractive purchase.

If Nintendo were ever to bail out on the home console market while still remaining in the handheld market, the smartest choice would be to make the handheld the best device possible by releasing as many games on it as possible.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Soundwave on 07 April 2015

I think being a plain jane/vanilla third party would be the worst result for Nintendo.

I'd rather have a partnership with MS over that, I think MS is going to scale back their involvement in hardware in the next few years anyway ... that was a Steve Ballmer push primarily, with him gone, I think Nadella will start to trim the fat.

Maybe that will come together for them. If not, then it's NX or bust.



Teeqoz on 07 April 2015
zorg1000 said:
Teeqoz said:


"The small group of people who prefer to play on a TV" lol. Small compared to mobile, bigger than the group that plays on handhelds though.

 

But no, it wouldn't. Nintendo can/ will only release on Mario Kart on heir next handheld. That might sell 10 million or something. Now what would happen to the team that makes home console MKs? If they do what you say, focus all effort on their handheld, those people will have to work on something else, which is basically guaranteed to not do as well as a multiplat Mario Kart would do.

 

How about a middle ground? The smaller Nintendo titles (FE, etc. you know what I mean) could go to their handheld, but they'd release thr big titles, the ones that are likely to take off as multiplat games, and that normally also get one handheld release (MK, 3D Mario, Zelda, SSB etc.) could be multiplat home console games. That way they'd focus more on their handheld than they do now, and only release the occasional huge titles for home consoles. The good thing about this is that it allows Nintendo to spread their resources however they like. They no longer need to worry about droughts on their home console, so they can release smaller titles on their handhelds we're they're more likely to do well than on their home consoles, but rake in the profits from the huge titles like MK etc.

I don't mean the home console market is small, I'm saying the Nintendo home market is small.

Well for one, there is no written rule banning Nintendo from releasing 2 Mario Kart titles on a single platform, they could realistically release Mario Kart 9 in 2017 then Mario Kart 10 in 2020. Two, by making all games for a single device, Nintendo is able to diversify their portfolio if they choose not to make 2 of every franchise, the amount of new IP or revived IP would grow by a pretty large amount making the device a much more attractive purchase.

If Nintendo were ever to bail out on the home console market while still remaining in the handheld market, the smartest choice would be to make the handheld the best device possible by releasing as many games on it as possible.


This thread is all about Nintendo expanding to the bigger, non-nintendo home console market though.

There's no written rule, but I don't think each of the two Mario Kart titles would sell as good as one per gen does. What it'd do is cut the legs short, and it'd also reduce consumer confidence, part of what people love about Mario Kart is that they only have to buy one title per system per gen. If they chose to not make 2 of every franchise, they would not be able to get the pretty much guaranteed massive sales of that Mario Kart title as a multiplat game. Take these scenarios:

Scenario 1: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that sells 10 million. Then, instead of making the HC Mario Kart, they make some other title, which, let's say sells 3 million (Imo this is pretty generous).

Scenario 2: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that once again sells 10 million. Then they make a HC multiplat Mario Kart that also sells 10 million combined across all platforms.

 

I'd choose scenario 2. That way Nintendo gets to leverage the potential of their massive franchises on home console. Honestly Nintendo would only have to release like 7 games as multiplats. 2D and 3D Mario, Zelda (one, possibly two depending on the length of the gen), Mario Kart, Super Smash, Metroid (I could see this becoming a huge franchise if it goes multiplat).



Soundwave on 07 April 2015

Who says people wouldn't be fine with two Mario Karts per generation?

2 Marios and 2 Zeldas and like 3 Pokemon etc. etc. seem to be no problem.

Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing both put up huge sales on the N64 and they were in North America basically even released in the same year (Feb 1997 for Mario Kart 64, November 1997 for Diddy Kong Racing). 

Right now Nintendo does make two Mario Karts per generation, you're just forced to pay $500 (give or take) in hardware cost to play both.



forest-spirit on 07 April 2015
Teeqoz said:
zorg1000 said:

In that case wouldn't it be more beneficial for Nintendo to divert all resources to their handheld and perhaps release a Vita TV-like device for the small group of people who prefer playing on a TV instead of spreading themselves thin making games for PS/XB/PC while still trying to support their handheld?


"The small group of people who prefer to play on a TV" lol. Small compared to mobile, bigger than the group that plays on handhelds though.

 

But no, it wouldn't. Nintendo can/ will only release on Mario Kart on heir next handheld. That might sell 10 million or something. Now what would happen to the team that makes home console MKs? If they do what you say, focus all effort on their handheld, those people will have to work on something else, which is basically guaranteed to not do as well as a multiplat Mario Kart would do.

 

How about a middle ground? The smaller Nintendo titles (FE, etc. you know what I mean) could go to their handheld, but they'd release thr big titles, the ones that are likely to take off as multiplat games, and that normally also get one handheld release (MK, 3D Mario, Zelda, SSB etc.) could be multiplat home console games. That way they'd focus more on their handheld than they do now, and only release the occasional huge titles for home consoles. The good thing about this is that it allows Nintendo to spread their resources however they like. They no longer need to worry about droughts on their home console, so they can release smaller titles on their handhelds we're they're more likely to do well than on their home consoles, but rake in the profits from the huge titles like MK etc.


Why put any games at all on home consoles? You have to remember that Nintendo only cares about home consoles because they have a home console of their own. If Nintendo gets rid of their home consoles they'd focus on the remaining parts of their eco-system, where their portable console would be given highest priority.

I don't understand how putting smaller titles on the platform that is part of the eco-system and moving the big guns to platforms not part of said system makes much sense from a business perspective. If anything it should be the other way around but the better choice would be to create all titles for the handheld system. That way they'd have a platform that would get a handful of big games each year, and smaller titles to fill in the blanks in between these heavy hitters. Not having to make two versions of games such as Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. would free up resources and make it possible for Nintendo to create new entries for all of their franchises in addition to making new IP's, something they have not been able to do before. As a result they'd end up with a strong platform with a good variety of games, both big and small, and they'd have full control over it. And in case Nintendo do want to make another Mario Kart for a different platform to increase profits the mobile market offers much more potential than home consoles so that's where those games most likely would end up.



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Teeqoz on 07 April 2015
forest-spirit said:
Teeqoz said:


"The small group of people who prefer to play on a TV" lol. Small compared to mobile, bigger than the group that plays on handhelds though.

 

But no, it wouldn't. Nintendo can/ will only release on Mario Kart on heir next handheld. That might sell 10 million or something. Now what would happen to the team that makes home console MKs? If they do what you say, focus all effort on their handheld, those people will have to work on something else, which is basically guaranteed to not do as well as a multiplat Mario Kart would do.

 

How about a middle ground? The smaller Nintendo titles (FE, etc. you know what I mean) could go to their handheld, but they'd release thr big titles, the ones that are likely to take off as multiplat games, and that normally also get one handheld release (MK, 3D Mario, Zelda, SSB etc.) could be multiplat home console games. That way they'd focus more on their handheld than they do now, and only release the occasional huge titles for home consoles. The good thing about this is that it allows Nintendo to spread their resources however they like. They no longer need to worry about droughts on their home console, so they can release smaller titles on their handhelds we're they're more likely to do well than on their home consoles, but rake in the profits from the huge titles like MK etc.


Why put any games at all on home consoles? You have to remember that Nintendo only cares about home consoles because they have a home console of their own. If Nintendo gets rid of their home consoles they'd focus on the remaining parts of their eco-system, where their portable console would be given highest priority.

I don't understand how putting smaller titles on the platform that is part of the eco-system and moving the big guns to platforms not part of said system makes much sense from a business perspective. If anything it should be the other way around but the better choice would be to create all titles for the handheld system. That way they'd have a platform that would get a handful of big games each year, and smaller titles to fill in the blanks in between these heavy hitters. Not having to make two versions of games such as Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. would free up resources and make it possible for Nintendo to create new entries for all of their franchises in addition to making new IP's, something they have not been able to do before. As a result they'd end up with a strong platform with a good variety of games, both big and small, and they'd have full control over it. And in case Nintendo do want to make another Mario Kart for a different platform to increase profits the mobile market offers much more potential than home consoles so that's where those games most likely would end up.


See my post above.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7204179



forest-spirit on 07 April 2015
Teeqoz said:
forest-spirit said:


Why put any games at all on home consoles? You have to remember that Nintendo only cares about home consoles because they have a home console of their own. If Nintendo gets rid of their home consoles they'd focus on the remaining parts of their eco-system, where their portable console would be given highest priority.

I don't understand how putting smaller titles on the platform that is part of the eco-system and moving the big guns to platforms not part of said system makes much sense from a business perspective. If anything it should be the other way around but the better choice would be to create all titles for the handheld system. That way they'd have a platform that would get a handful of big games each year, and smaller titles to fill in the blanks in between these heavy hitters. Not having to make two versions of games such as Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. would free up resources and make it possible for Nintendo to create new entries for all of their franchises in addition to making new IP's, something they have not been able to do before. As a result they'd end up with a strong platform with a good variety of games, both big and small, and they'd have full control over it. And in case Nintendo do want to make another Mario Kart for a different platform to increase profits the mobile market offers much more potential than home consoles so that's where those games most likely would end up.


See my post above.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7204179

 

Scenario 1: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that sells 10 million. Then, instead of making the HC Mario Kart, they make some other title, which, let's say sells 3 million (Imo this is pretty generous).

Scenario 2: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that once again sells 10 million. Then they make a HC multiplat Mario Kart that also sells 10 million combined across all platforms.

Scenario 3: Nintendo makes a single Mario Kart for their portable system, and supports this title with DLC as they have done with MK8. Then they make another Maro Kart for mobiles, which thanks to being a lot less demanding in terms of resources compared to a home console game gives the team the opportunity to work on a new Diddy Kong racing, F-Zero or perhaps Nintendogs (made by the MK team) for handhelds and/or mobiles. Pretty sure that Nintendogs on mobiles has quite the potential. Nintendo could also choose to have the team help out with other projects, something they tend to do quite a lot.

 

From a pure financial perspective do you still consider Scenario 2 to be the best option?



zorg1000 on 07 April 2015
Teeqoz said:
zorg1000 said:

I don't mean the home console market is small, I'm saying the Nintendo home market is small.

Well for one, there is no written rule banning Nintendo from releasing 2 Mario Kart titles on a single platform, they could realistically release Mario Kart 9 in 2017 then Mario Kart 10 in 2020. Two, by making all games for a single device, Nintendo is able to diversify their portfolio if they choose not to make 2 of every franchise, the amount of new IP or revived IP would grow by a pretty large amount making the device a much more attractive purchase.

If Nintendo were ever to bail out on the home console market while still remaining in the handheld market, the smartest choice would be to make the handheld the best device possible by releasing as many games on it as possible.


This thread is all about Nintendo expanding to the bigger, non-nintendo home console market though.

There's no written rule, but I don't think each of the two Mario Kart titles would sell as good as one per gen does. What it'd do is cut the legs short, and it'd also reduce consumer confidence, part of what people love about Mario Kart is that they only have to buy one title per system per gen. If they chose to not make 2 of every franchise, they would not be able to get the pretty much guaranteed massive sales of that Mario Kart title as a multiplat game. Take these scenarios:

Scenario 1: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that sells 10 million. Then, instead of making the HC Mario Kart, they make some other title, which, let's say sells 3 million (Imo this is pretty generous).

Scenario 2: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that once again sells 10 million. Then they make a HC multiplat Mario Kart that also sells 10 million combined across all platforms.

 

I'd choose scenario 2. That way Nintendo gets to leverage the potential of their massive franchises on home console. Honestly Nintendo would only have to release like 7 games as multiplats. 2D and 3D Mario, Zelda (one, possibly two depending on the length of the gen), Mario Kart, Super Smash, Metroid (I could see this becoming a huge franchise if it goes multiplat).

That bigger Non-Nintendo console market primarily plays shooters, sports, racing (not Kart racers), WRPG, open-world action games. 25 of PS4's 28 million sellers belong to these genres and 18 out of 18 of XB1's million sellers belong to these genres. Even if we go down to 500k sellers, it's like 5 out of 44 and 2 out of 29 games that don't belong to those 5 genres. Nothing suggests that things like Mario, Mario Kart, Yoshi, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros, Pikmin, Mario Party, Animal Crossing, etc. would show any significant growth and if they don't grow by a large margin than what's the point?

Ur paragraph about people not buying 2 Mario Kart's per generation is based on absolutely nothing. For all we know MK9 could sell 12 million and MK10 releasing 3 years later could sell 8 million. And if they chose to make a different game instead of a sequel, how do u know it wouldn't be a huge success and a system seller? Nintendo has a pretty solid history of developing huge selling series, Mario/Zelda/Duck Hunt in the 80's, Mario Kart/Pokemon/Smash Bros in the 90's, Nintendogs/Brain Age/Wii Sports/Wii Fit in the 00's. I wouldn't be against these guys being able to create another huge system selling title.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Teeqoz on 07 April 2015
forest-spirit said:
Teeqoz said:
forest-spirit said:


Why put any games at all on home consoles? You have to remember that Nintendo only cares about home consoles because they have a home console of their own. If Nintendo gets rid of their home consoles they'd focus on the remaining parts of their eco-system, where their portable console would be given highest priority.

I don't understand how putting smaller titles on the platform that is part of the eco-system and moving the big guns to platforms not part of said system makes much sense from a business perspective. If anything it should be the other way around but the better choice would be to create all titles for the handheld system. That way they'd have a platform that would get a handful of big games each year, and smaller titles to fill in the blanks in between these heavy hitters. Not having to make two versions of games such as Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. would free up resources and make it possible for Nintendo to create new entries for all of their franchises in addition to making new IP's, something they have not been able to do before. As a result they'd end up with a strong platform with a good variety of games, both big and small, and they'd have full control over it. And in case Nintendo do want to make another Mario Kart for a different platform to increase profits the mobile market offers much more potential than home consoles so that's where those games most likely would end up.


See my post above.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7204179

 

Scenario 1: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that sells 10 million. Then, instead of making the HC Mario Kart, they make some other title, which, let's say sells 3 million (Imo this is pretty generous).

Scenario 2: Nintendo makes 1 Mario Kart for their handheld, and that once again sells 10 million. Then they make a HC multiplat Mario Kart that also sells 10 million combined across all platforms.

Scenario 3: Nintendo makes a single Mario Kart for their portable system, and supports this title with DLC as they have done with MK8. Then they make another Maro Kart for mobiles, which thanks to being a lot less demanding in terms of resources compared to a home console game gives the team the opportunity to work on a new Diddy Kong racing, F-Zero or perhaps Nintendogs (made by the MK team) for handhelds and/or mobiles. Pretty sure that Nintendogs on mobiles has quite the potential. Nintendo could also choose to have the team help out with other projects, something they tend to do quite a lot.

 

From a pure financial perspective do you still consider Scenario 2 to be the best option?


Scenario 4: Nintendo makes a single Mario Kart for their portable system, and supports this title with DLC (why did you assume that wouldn't be the case in scenario 2 really?) Then the same team make another Mario Kart for mobiles, using assets from the normal handheld one. Meanwhile, the home console team make one home console Mario Kart multiplat, and after that make Nintendogs + cats mobile or whatever.

I consider that the best option for Nintendo from a pure financial perspective (well, I'm a bit iffy on actually releasing a mobile Mario Kart, those are not the types of games that work well on mobile, and if it actually does really well, it might feed on the handheld Mario Kart)



Miyamotoo on 07 April 2015

From business perspective,
they have full control of their entire gaming business with their own hardware and software, they always have profit on each sold console (reason why they still don't have Wii U price cut), and they have very large profit on console controllers/accessories (Wii U Pro/Wii Remote are $60 and they cost them around $20), and almost every Wii U owner have some extra controller (for my Wii U I have 1x Wii U Pro, 3x Wii Remote and 1x Nunchuk).

From user perspective,
Nintendo games will always be best on Nintendo hardware, period.
They make their hardware with their software on mind not 3rd party, hardware that suit them most for developing their own game.
I am 100% that going 3rd party would certainly have effect on quality of their games.


Nintendo will never go 3rd party,
maybe only if there are on edge of bankrupt, but till then it would be much smaller company and probably that would affect their games too, but fortunately they are very financially responsible company, never had no debt, and after three years minuses in which they had some major changes in the company last year end with a profit, except that, they always have billions in banks.

I think that there are much bigger chances that Microsoft abandoning console gaming and Sony go bankrupt then Nintendo go 3rd party.