By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why I can't get into New Super Mario Bros.

vivster said:
So what you really hate are sequels?

I will never understand how people always love the 2nd and 3rd expansions of a franchise(sequels) but hate the 15th and 20th even though they're all just "exploitations" of the very first game.


No. Clearly I don't. I love SMB2, and 3, and World, and Yoshi's island. I love Sunshine and Galaxy, and to me, 64 is just the successor to World. My problem is when games become wholely derivative. Every single game I just mentioned has an identity destinct from every other game I named. Galaxy 2, the NSMB games, and the 3D series base their identities almost whole one other games. Their fundemental cores are a jigsaw puzzle comprised of other, more unique Mario games.



Around the Network
zelmusario said:

It doesn't sound like that's what he's saying, though. Just the NSMB and Super Mario 3D Land/World games because they lack an identity of their own, contrary to the original SMB series which, even though they were sequels, all played and looked different from each other. 


And sounded. The all had completely destinct soundtracks from one another. I don't even hate 3D Land or World. But do I have the amount of respect for them that I do for SMB, SMB2, SMB2, SMW, Yoshi's Island, SM64, Sunshine, and the first Galaxy? Not even close. They will always be good games, but these will forever be classics.



spemanig said:
vivster said:
So what you really hate are sequels?

I will never understand how people always love the 2nd and 3rd expansions of a franchise(sequels) but hate the 15th and 20th even though they're all just "exploitations" of the very first game.


No. Clearly I don't. I love SMB2, and 3, and World, and Yoshi's island. I love Sunshine and Galaxy, and to me, 64 is just the successor to World. My problem is when games become wholely derivative. Every single game I just mentioned has an identity destinct from every other game I named. Galaxy 2, the NSMB games, and the 3D series base their identities almost whole one other games. Their fundemental cores are a jigsaw puzzle comprised of other, more unique Mario games.

Fair enough but I really don't see the bad here. You can expand a fairly limited premise only so many times. And I mean it's not like the new games are bad. You probably would've shit your pants if you played them first and then accused SMB3 of copying the world System of SM3DW. It's just perspective. In the end they're all based on the first game and each new iteration introduced a minute additional feature.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

t3mporary_126 said:

Whoa you think the 3D series are too similar? Are you not taking account to the musical difference in 3D land and World? And even the most basic level of 3D world looked fantastic. Even that basic grass level. And that overworld was awesome because you weren't restricted to follow the paths. Hell in Galaxy 2 (a fantastic game) you had to follow linear path ways when selecting levels. I'll give Galaxy 2 credit for having small hub world but that was basically a tiny planet you can explore in under a minute. Koji Kondo's music for it made it up though.

If only I didn't store my Wii U away I could show you all the great graphical variety in 3D world through miiverse posts alone.


I own 3D World and I addressed everything you've said in detail in the OP.



Indeed. Look how different super mario land 2 (1992) was to super mario world (1991).

They both had overworld maps but sml2 did it differently and was less linear in the order you could do things.
Almost every baddy and boss was new and unique in sml2.
The level theme types were completly different.
The level designs tended to had a different structure and style of design. Less levels that were simply about moving from right to left and jumping over pipes. In it's place new environment types and obsicales to maneuver around with more up and down movement.

Both great games but had their own character. SML2 was like the devs wanted to make a game that was still a mario game but diffrent to SMW in every way.

NSMB games don't try to do that. I would say that when there was only one NSMB game it did have it's own identity and was great. It gave me hope for 2d Mario. It borrowed from the past but did lots of new things too. But now we have NSMB Wii/2/U as well. Despite many tweaks and little changes, they feel like expansion packs, and the series seems lazy and uninspired.

2D Mario could easily be revived in my eye's if Nintendo wanted to.

I'd love to see new settings and baddies and sprite base graphical style. Maybe throw in some galaxy style gravity tricks. Actively avoid what the previous games did whilst still have the key ingreadiants of a mario game.

I disagree with you on 3d world though. I see that as an evolution of the galaxy games with some compromises made to make it suitable for multiplayer. The only reason you might say it lacks its own identity is because we had 3d land before it. If they released a 3rd 3d world esk game you might start to have a point.



Around the Network

Yeah, once Mario stops being fun, it's hard to find interest in it again. Nothing really too new being added in, just little gimmicks or abilities.



NintenDomination [May 2015 - July 2017]
 

  - Official  VGChartz Tutorial Thread - 

NintenDomination [2015/05/19 - 2017/07/02]
 

          

 

 

Here lies the hidden threads. 

 | |

Nintendo Metascore | Official NintenDomination | VGC Tutorial Thread

| Best and Worst of Miiverse | Manga Discussion Thead |
[3DS] Winter Playtimes [Wii U]

vivster said:

Fair enough but I really don't see the bad here. You can expand a fairly limited premise only so many times. And I mean it's not like the new games are bad. You probably would've shit your pants if you played them first and then accused SMB3 of copying the world System of SM3DW. It's just perspective.


Again, I don't think it's a problem when you're merely celebrating the franchise as a whole, but that's not what these games are doing. Galaxy 2 isn't celebrating Galaxy 1. Every NSMB since the first one on the DS lost the alibi that they were only celebrating the franchise. SM3DW doesn't get to celebrate Galaxy when Galaxy 2 already had its time exploiting fanservice.

And it's not just perspective. I'm not stupid. I can comprehend chronology. I understand what comes first. World used the world system too, but even in that case, it was completely visually destinct from SMB3. The ones present in NSMB, 2, Wii, U, and SM3DW are literally carbon copies of SMB3's formula. One is informed by while the other is stolen from. It's derivative, and it serves only to bury and undermine moments like this:

Where the games peek their uniqueness.



 

vivster said:

I don't see a problem here. People hate change. Why do the NSMB games need each their own identity? Just because the first games were different, doesn't mean we need a completely new world with every new game. NSMB games have their own identity that they share between all of the games under the "New" banner. And it's not like you can expand a simple concept with a confined world and lore indefinitely. There was a reason why they had to take Mario to the Galaxy.

This is nothing more than nostalgia and Franchise fatigue, which certainly is not a fault of the games. OP is also not at fault here, since it's only natural to grow out of things. Hell even I am growing a bit tired of AC games even though I still love them and Unity is as much as a valid entry to the Franchise as AC2 was. If you are tiored of something it's very easy to find faults, even though the same faults might be present in previous games.

Sure, you can't create entirely new worlds with each installment. The genre isn't limitless and game designer's imagination will only go so far. And we've seen that familiarity sells, whether it's COD, AC, or NSMB. 

At the same time, I still think the NSMB series especially, while fun, doesn't have the amount of variation and creativity it should. Maybe I just expect more from Nintendo. Or maybe you're right and it's just franchise fatigue, which is bound to happen sooner or later. 



It'll be awhile before I figure out how to do one of these. :P 

vivster said:

Fair enough but I really don't see the bad here. You can expand a fairly limited premise only so many times. And I mean it's not like the new games are bad. You probably would've shit your pants if you played them first and then accused SMB3 of copying the world System of SM3DW. It's just perspective. In the end they're all based on the first game and each new iteration introduced a minute additional feature.


And also, I don't agree at all with the idea that Mario games have a limited amount of scenarios to work with. Before 3D World, I would have never entertained the idea of a Mario game with a jazz/carnival motif. Before Sunshine, I would have never though of Mario on vacation on an island. The games don't need to get bigger in concept. Just different. The question isn't "where can Mario possibly go after space?" That's a limited view point. The Mario games were never about getting bigger. Just like the next 3D Mario shouldn't be something stupid and uncreative like "Super Mario Universe," 2D Mario shouldn't be restrained to "well, what did the other Mario's do?"

The only limits are the limits of creativity, and I know Nintendo doesn't have that problem. The issue isn't of can't, it's of won't.



I find the 3DLand/World games as an effort to bring the 2D classic Mario games into the 3D world. That's why some of the pics you post on the OP have strongs similarities to the classic Marios. But they have their own personality. They introduce a lot of new mechanics, powerups and the levels are the most varied in any Mario game ever (in my opinion, of course). They mix the old with the new, and they give the mix a lot of charm. I wouldn't like 3DWorld as much as I do if they didn't borrow certain elements of the old games.

I agree completely with the New. Super Mario series. I like them, they are fun, but I find them unoriginal. If Mario Maker turns to be a good editor, I don't think I'd buy another New. Super Mario game again.