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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - OFFICIAL NX thread: Does Cloud confirm FF7 appearance on NX???

 

What's the name of the NX!?

Dolphin 17 8.17%
 
Fusion 113 54.33%
 
starbox 13 6.25%
 
Link 18 8.65%
 
gameslate 3 1.44%
 
pu 44 21.15%
 
Total:208
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:

You're missing the point. Try to think abstractly about this. Think outside the box.

There are some games, like that Link game that comes with the system, because the 3ds doesn't have the accelerometers necessary to know that you're moving the console around. Same thing with Captain Toad.

The upcoming consoles, including the future home console and handheld will share certain games. Nobody is saying they won't. But it is a mistake to think that the entire strategy of Nintendo ends at "multiple consoles that can all play the same games".

That's peanuts.

EDIT: apparently there are accelerometers in the 3ds. None I've seen can do what the wiiU remote can though.

What point am I missing? What games on 3DS and Wii U are unplayable on the other in terms of game mechanics? They share all the same input methods, if the specs allowed for it, all games would be feasible on either device.

The point is as I just explained to delio. Nintendo have said very very recently (just a few weeks ago) that they want to create new experiences through tying software to hardware capabilities. I've also said previously that only looking as far as the 3ds and wiiU intercompatibility is short-sighted. We have the wii which was able to do way different experiences than the ds. As did the ds with the gamecube, or the gameboy advance. There are plenty of examples previously to this gen.

Now, I know what you're thinking. You're going to say, "sure in the past, but I think looking at wiiu and 3ds is closer to their current strategy". And that I cannot argue. I can only repeat what Iwata has said, where they want to move forward with new kinds of experiences, and did not include the 3ds as part of their architecture encompassing strategy. They only referenced wiiU.

Like Soundwave has said as well, thinking about their "shared ecosystem" as a line of platforms designed to all play the same games at a different resolution in different contexts (portable vs tv) isn't much of an incentive, nor does it answer the question of why customers would buy additional consoles. That's like suggesting that people buy multiple steam machines, because they play at different resolutions. And while Valve has a great idea of sharing a complete ecosystem across consoles, it is not quite the same viewpoint from nintendo's side. Nintendo already has a place in the tv and handheld. Valve is moving into the console territory and bringing their games for a cheaper price than a pc. they are bringing pc exclusive games to tv at a cheaper entry point. There is nothing in this supposedly similar nintendo strategy to do the same. The only possible conclusion is that there will be exclusives to each of their systems while also having access to a shared library of games.

It's just like the Vita. There is nothing pushing the Vita in terms of being able to play ps3 on the go. That's what it was marketed as, and it's largely failed. However, what HAS helped the Vita continue to breathe is the overwhelming support by Japanese devs with exclusive content.

In the end, and as has always been, it will be exclusive content that sells hardware.



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Its in Ninty's best interest to have a small amount of exclusives, if NX is (mainly) a cross-buy system. Not every single title has to work across all their HW, but the major big hitters are crucial. If its around 75% sharing games I won't complain,



theprof00 said:
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:

You're missing the point. Try to think abstractly about this. Think outside the box.

There are some games, like that Link game that comes with the system, because the 3ds doesn't have the accelerometers necessary to know that you're moving the console around. Same thing with Captain Toad.

The upcoming consoles, including the future home console and handheld will share certain games. Nobody is saying they won't. But it is a mistake to think that the entire strategy of Nintendo ends at "multiple consoles that can all play the same games".

That's peanuts.

EDIT: apparently there are accelerometers in the 3ds. None I've seen can do what the wiiU remote can though.

What point am I missing? What games on 3DS and Wii U are unplayable on the other in terms of game mechanics? They share all the same input methods, if the specs allowed for it, all games would be feasible on either device.

The point is as I just explained to delio. Nintendo have said very very recently (just a few weeks ago) that they want to create new experiences through tying software to hardware capabilities. I've also said previously that only looking as far as the 3ds and wiiU intercompatibility is short-sighted. We have the wii which was able to do way different experiences than the ds. As did the ds with the gamecube, or the gameboy advance. There are plenty of examples previously to this gen.

Now, I know what you're thinking. You're going to say, "sure in the past, but I think looking at wiiu and 3ds is closer to their current strategy". And that I cannot argue. I can only repeat what Iwata has said, where they want to move forward with new kinds of experiences, and did not include the 3ds as part of their architecture encompassing strategy. They only referenced wiiU.

Like Soundwave has said as well, thinking about their "shared ecosystem" as a line of platforms designed to all play the same games at a different resolution in different contexts (portable vs tv) isn't much of an incentive, nor does it answer the question of why customers would buy additional consoles. That's like suggesting that people buy multiple steam machines, because they play at different resolutions. And while Valve has a great idea of sharing a complete ecosystem across consoles, it is not quite the same viewpoint from nintendo's side. Nintendo already has a place in the tv and handheld. Valve is moving into the console territory and bringing their games for a cheaper price than a pc. they are bringing pc exclusive games to tv at a cheaper entry point. There is nothing in this supposedly similar nintendo strategy to do the same. The only possible conclusion is that there will be exclusives to each of their systems while also having access to a shared library of games.

It's just like the Vita. There is nothing pushing the Vita in terms of being able to play ps3 on the go. That's what it was marketed as, and it's largely failed. However, what HAS helped the Vita continue to breathe is the overwhelming support by Japanese devs with exclusive content.

In the end, and as has always been, it will be exclusive content that sells hardware.


The flaw in the "Vita is just a portable PS3!" ... is that it doesn't have really any PS3 games. Where's the "real" Call of Duty? Grand Theft Auto V? Metal Gear Solid IV? Console parity Madden NFL?

It can't run any of those games, just watered down, butchered ports that play nothing like the home version is what it can do. 



Soundwave said:
theprof00 said:
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:

You're missing the point. Try to think abstractly about this. Think outside the box.

There are some games, like that Link game that comes with the system, because the 3ds doesn't have the accelerometers necessary to know that you're moving the console around. Same thing with Captain Toad.

The upcoming consoles, including the future home console and handheld will share certain games. Nobody is saying they won't. But it is a mistake to think that the entire strategy of Nintendo ends at "multiple consoles that can all play the same games".

That's peanuts.

EDIT: apparently there are accelerometers in the 3ds. None I've seen can do what the wiiU remote can though.

What point am I missing? What games on 3DS and Wii U are unplayable on the other in terms of game mechanics? They share all the same input methods, if the specs allowed for it, all games would be feasible on either device.

The point is as I just explained to delio. Nintendo have said very very recently (just a few weeks ago) that they want to create new experiences through tying software to hardware capabilities. I've also said previously that only looking as far as the 3ds and wiiU intercompatibility is short-sighted. We have the wii which was able to do way different experiences than the ds. As did the ds with the gamecube, or the gameboy advance. There are plenty of examples previously to this gen.

Now, I know what you're thinking. You're going to say, "sure in the past, but I think looking at wiiu and 3ds is closer to their current strategy". And that I cannot argue. I can only repeat what Iwata has said, where they want to move forward with new kinds of experiences, and did not include the 3ds as part of their architecture encompassing strategy. They only referenced wiiU.

Like Soundwave has said as well, thinking about their "shared ecosystem" as a line of platforms designed to all play the same games at a different resolution in different contexts (portable vs tv) isn't much of an incentive, nor does it answer the question of why customers would buy additional consoles. That's like suggesting that people buy multiple steam machines, because they play at different resolutions. And while Valve has a great idea of sharing a complete ecosystem across consoles, it is not quite the same viewpoint from nintendo's side. Nintendo already has a place in the tv and handheld. Valve is moving into the console territory and bringing their games for a cheaper price than a pc. they are bringing pc exclusive games to tv at a cheaper entry point. There is nothing in this supposedly similar nintendo strategy to do the same. The only possible conclusion is that there will be exclusives to each of their systems while also having access to a shared library of games.

It's just like the Vita. There is nothing pushing the Vita in terms of being able to play ps3 on the go. That's what it was marketed as, and it's largely failed. However, what HAS helped the Vita continue to breathe is the overwhelming support by Japanese devs with exclusive content.

In the end, and as has always been, it will be exclusive content that sells hardware.


The flaw in the "Vita is just a portable PS3!" ... is that it doesn't have really any PS3 games. Where's the "real" Call of Duty? Grand Theft Auto V? Metal Gear Solid IV? Console parity Madden NFL?

It can't run any of those games, just watered down, butchered ports that play nothing like the home version is what it can do. 

Well, true, but it can play ps4 games through wifi and the sales have not improved.



se7en7thre3 said:
Its in Ninty's best interest to have a small amount of exclusives, if NX is (mainly) a cross-buy system. Not every single title has to work across all their HW, but the major big hitters are crucial. If its around 75% sharing games I won't complain,


If my theory about the Nx is correct, and it's designed to play amiibo and card type games like a tablet as well as be the new home for their mobile division, I think we will end up seeing a lot of exclusive games. Yes, it's true that there will be a lot of crossover, especially in the mainfranchises, but I don't think the main franchises are going to be quite so main going forward. We have seen a huge number of exclusive title spinoffs lately and I think that will continue.



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theprof00 said:
DélioPT said:

But what examples can you find this gen? How many 3DS games can't be done on Wii U, for example?
Yes, you don't have 3D and those streetpass games, but i can't think of other examples where HW comes into play in such a defining way.

Regarding 3D, it's just a question of them figuring out a way where the home console version isn't crippled due to lack of 3D.

Wii games had motion that can also be emulated by touch controls. If not that, it might just be due to HW differences as Iwata mentioned before.

If both the next HH and the next HC share the same basic tech (leaving 3D for the HH), then you won't have a situation where one side gets the worst version.

While it's true that there aren't a ton of games that couldn't be done on WiiU, there's also the problem of why they'd be on wiiU. Just for instance, Nintendo has said that Pokemon will always be a handheld franchise, with spinoffs on console. This is subject to change, but it does give us some insight on how Nintendo strategizes their games. They believe that some games aren't meant for other consoles.

Additionally, they've said that moving forward, they want to "marry software to hardware" in order to "create new ways to play". Such a statement doesn't come off to me as "interchangeable hardware with different resolutions". It says, new gimmicks (in a good way) that create new experiences. I think that strategy will hold true once we see the Nx at e3.

There will always be franchises that will be more appealing on handhelds than on home consoles or vice-versa. But that doesn't mean that it won't sell on the other console.
Animal Crossing is that example. It sells way better on handhelds but is also sells well on home consoles.

Not every one has the money to buy 2 Nintendo consoles to play all the franchises.
I doubt that Pokémon would bomb on home consoles - specially if you had online play.
Even if the core fanbase is just on one of the consoles - for whatever reason - selling a version on the other console, without a real budget behind it, it will always turn profits.

All i have read is that Miyamoto considers developing one game for both consoles an opportunity that they want to explore.
I think your first quote was given as an explanatio on why they joined both divisions. But that's not really anything new, it's serves more as a way to deepen the relationship.

Everything that Iwata has done and said (Miyamoto aswell), points more to HW just being an output of a new idea where software is the actual platform, than HW actually being the platform.



fireburn95 said:
NX is a platform service rather than hardware I reckon. It will run on Wii U and PC/tablets, and will begin Nintendos slow phasing out of the home console business.


And I predict you will be dead wrong. Now the wait to see who's right.



zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:
You can't play every game on wiiU on 3ds, because it's simply not possible. Likewise, there will be games on Nx that simply cannot be played on other hardware.


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.

 

You keep touting this and touting this and touting this as if its definitely feasible. I've worked on porting/co-developing games on consoles and handhelds. It is not that simple. Running on two different platforms regardless of the fact that they may or may not share a similar operating system, developer tools, and same architecture does not in any way mean scaling is in any way arbitrary or simple. It doesn't work that way.

You would need to completely change how video games are developed just to accomdate this platform. Developer kits would cost an extraodinary amount extra, development time would be longer, or would require more people. Engine development would be more complicated. For each platform you would need completely different 3D models (characters/landscapes/everything), completely different textures, system-specific animations (rigging), different qualities of audio and video, different lighting techniques, different draw distances, different UIs that don't look like crap when scaled. These would have to be made and maintained separately to ensure optimal performance on each console. Resource managment during development would be a nightmare.

The biggest hurdle, however, is creating a game storage medium that would more or less have to store two games at once. All of those extra assets I'm talking about, that take up about 90% of a game disk/cartridges storage space, and now you're more or less doubling it. Those cartridges/disks are not going to be cheap to produce, especially if they are proprietary.

Now you may be saying "well you could just develop for one platform or another to keep costs down". I've worked with Nintendo directly before, they are absolutely anal and strict on the vision they have, and the image they want to project. If they wish to market the concept of  "One game. One disk. Multiple platforms", exceptions  will be few and far between, lest they confuse parents/grandparents even further. Then again they did name two entirely separate consoles "Wii" and "wii u" much to the irriation of gamestop employees everywhere.

Either way, it's not nearly that easy, and not nearly that simple. Please stop acting like it is.



The thing about the NX being the Fusion proyect is I can't think of a way to distribute the games in a phisical format so they both work on each piece of hardware? Would you choose to use cartridges for home console? Would you give a digital code with every game sold?

I hope it's the Fusion, but I don't know what will they do with this problem.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:
You can't play every game on wiiU on 3ds, because it's simply not possible. Likewise, there will be games on Nx that simply cannot be played on other hardware.


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.

 

You keep touting this and touting this and touting this as if its definitely feasible. I've worked on porting/co-developing games on consoles and handhelds. It is not that simple. Running on two different platforms regardless of the fact that they may or may not share a similar operating system, developer tools, and same architecture does not in any way mean scaling is in any way arbitrary or simple. It doesn't work that way.

You would need to completely change how video games are developed just to accomdate this platform. Developer kits would cost an extraodinary amount extra, development time would be longer, or would require more people. Engine development would be more complicated. For each platform you would need completely different 3D models (characters/landscapes/everything), completely different textures, system-specific animations (rigging), different qualities of audio and video, different lighting techniques, different draw distances, different UIs that don't look like crap when scaled. These would have to be made and maintained separately to ensure optimal performance on each console. Resource managment during development would be a nightmare.

The biggest hurdle, however, is creating a game storage medium that would more or less have to store two games at once. All of those extra assets I'm talking about, that take up about 90% of a game disk/cartridges storage space, and now you're more or less doubling it. Those cartridges/disks are not going to be cheap to produce, especially if they are proprietary.

Now you may be saying "well you could just develop for one platform or another to keep costs down". I've worked with Nintendo directly before, they are absolutely anal and strict on the vision they have, and the image they want to project. If they wish to market the concept of  "One game. One disk. Multiple platforms", exceptions  will be few and far between, lest they confuse parents/grandparents even further. Then again they did name two entirely separate consoles "Wii" and "wii u" much to the irriation of gamestop employees everywhere.

Either way, it's not nearly that easy, and not nearly that simple. Please stop acting like it is.

Not to mention Developing a game for one console and not properly optimizing for the other will result in terrible performance (extreme frame rate fluxuations, frame dropping, ect). I doubt Nintendo would sacrifice the quality of their games like that.... It just isn't them. It will never be as easy as making just one game and running it on two systems. I completely agree.