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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - OFFICIAL NX thread: Does Cloud confirm FF7 appearance on NX???

 

What's the name of the NX!?

Dolphin 17 8.17%
 
Fusion 113 54.33%
 
starbox 13 6.25%
 
Link 18 8.65%
 
gameslate 3 1.44%
 
pu 44 21.15%
 
Total:208
zorg1000 on 22 April 2015
theprof00 said:
You can't play every game on wiiU on 3ds, because it's simply not possible. Likewise, there will be games on Nx that simply cannot be played on other hardware.


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Soundwave on 22 April 2015
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:
You can't play every game on wiiU on 3ds, because it's simply not possible. Likewise, there will be games on Nx that simply cannot be played on other hardware.


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.


Yup. A 3:1 difference will scale very nicely and easily for Nintendo, the chasm between the 3DS and Wii U is too big to cross. The 3DS has problems handling even Wii ports.

Mobile tech has come light years since 2009 or so when Nintendo likely finalized the 3DS spec. 



zorg1000 on 22 April 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.


Yup. A 3:1 difference will scale very nicely and easily for Nintendo, the chasm between the 3DS and Wii U is too big to cross. The 3DS has problems handling even Wii ports.

Mobile tech has come light years since 2009 or so when Nintendo likely finalized the 3DS spec. 


Well my outlined specs are a 4:1 ratio which is great for 540p vs 1080p



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 on 22 April 2015
theprof00 said:
zorg1000 said:


Sure, we may see a select few titles exclusive to each device kinda like how Xenoblade 3D is only on New 3DS but the overwhelming majority are likely to be playable on any form factor.

Like Soundwave said, I don't believe that a home console specifically for the use of 'playing another console's games on your tv' is much aof a strategy at all. And niether is playing your console games on the go. (Vita, anyone?)

Nintendo's success in the future will rely on being able to create new gameplay experiences through the marriage of software and hardware. This is a direct quote from Iwata.

Outside of those extremely obscure examples u gave, what type of games are inherently different on a handheld vs a console and couldn't work on either device?

Do u think its a coincidence that Wii U & New 3DS share the exact same input methods? 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder/triggers, 1 Dpad, 2 control sticks, dual screens, touch screen, microphone, 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyroscope, camera, NFC compatibility.

Based on that literally any 3DS game could be playable on Wii U and vice versa if the hardware specs allowed for it.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

theprof00 on 22 April 2015
zorg1000 said:
theprof00 said:
You can't play every game on wiiU on 3ds, because it's simply not possible. Likewise, there will be games on Nx that simply cannot be played on other hardware.


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.

You're missing the point. Try to think abstractly about this. Think outside the box.

There are some games, like that Link game that comes with the system, because the 3ds doesn't have the accelerometers necessary to know that you're moving the console around. Same thing with Captain Toad.

The upcoming consoles, including the future home console and handheld will share certain games. Nobody is saying they won't. But it is a mistake to think that the entire strategy of Nintendo ends at "multiple consoles that can all play the same games".

That's peanuts.

EDIT: apparently there are accelerometers in the 3ds. None I've seen can do what the wiiU remote can though.



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Soundwave on 22 April 2015

I think it'll probably be 90-95% shared games.

There will be some games specific to handheld, and some to the home console, which will utilize probably some kind of wacky new controller that Miyamoto has come up with for family style fun.

But the core Nintendo franchise IP will likely be shared on both.

But that'll be enough to differentiate the two.



DélioPT on 22 April 2015
theprof00 said:
DélioPT said:
Those exemples you gave, theprof00, reveal that the shared library strategy also has it's flaws.
But how many games actually support something like that? How many Nintendo games actually did something like that?

The next handheld could very well keep Streetpass and 3D.
That's why it's important for Nintendo to sell not two consoles with a shared library, but an ecosystem where you can find the very best experience.

Also, it doesn't mean that a title releasing only on one of the consoles, it's out of the question.

If we think about their software library as only the core titles, then yeah, it would seem like not many games at all use it. However, they are making an effort to merge software with hardware. I mean like, 90% of titles on wii can't be played on the ds or 3ds...you know? We think of Nintendo as these core franchises that yeah, they could be played on anything with a dpad and buttons. But that is not the reality of nintendo, because we are core gamers on vgc, and we are only thinking of core franchises.

But what examples can you find this gen? How many 3DS games can't be done on Wii U, for example?
Yes, you don't have 3D and those streetpass games, but i can't think of other examples where HW comes into play in such a defining way.

Regarding 3D, it's just a question of them figuring out a way where the home console version isn't crippled due to lack of 3D.

Wii games had motion that can also be emulated by touch controls. If not that, it might just be due to HW differences as Iwata mentioned before.

If both the next HH and the next HC share the same basic tech (leaving 3D for the HH), then you won't have a situation where one side gets the worst version.



zorg1000 on 22 April 2015
theprof00 said:
zorg1000 said:


The reason it's not possible for Wii U & 3DS to share a unified software library is because they have completely different architectures, the Wii U GPU is 73x more powerful than the 3DS GPU (4.8 gflop vs 352 gflop) and Wii U has 16x as much RAM as 3DS (128 mb vs 2 gb).

If they shared the same architecture & operating system and were much closer in power, say 300 gflop/2gb RAM vs 1.2 tflop/8gb RAM, than they could feasibly share a library just at different resolutions/graphics settings, 540p vs 1080p with better lighting/AA/etc.

You're missing the point. Try to think abstractly about this. Think outside the box.

There are some games, like that Link game that comes with the system, because the 3ds doesn't have the accelerometers necessary to know that you're moving the console around. Same thing with Captain Toad.

The upcoming consoles, including the future home console and handheld will share certain games. Nobody is saying they won't. But it is a mistake to think that the entire strategy of Nintendo ends at "multiple consoles that can all play the same games".

That's peanuts.

EDIT: apparently there are accelerometers in the 3ds. None I've seen can do what the wiiU remote can though.

What point am I missing? What games on 3DS and Wii U are unplayable on the other in terms of game mechanics? They share all the same input methods, if the specs allowed for it, all games would be feasible on either device.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

ExplodingBlock on 22 April 2015

I really hope they learned from their mistakes with Wii U. Third parties and marketing will make or break a system (as seen with Wii U).



theprof00 on 22 April 2015
DélioPT said:
theprof00 said:
DélioPT said:
Those exemples you gave, theprof00, reveal that the shared library strategy also has it's flaws.
But how many games actually support something like that? How many Nintendo games actually did something like that?

The next handheld could very well keep Streetpass and 3D.
That's why it's important for Nintendo to sell not two consoles with a shared library, but an ecosystem where you can find the very best experience.

Also, it doesn't mean that a title releasing only on one of the consoles, it's out of the question.

If we think about their software library as only the core titles, then yeah, it would seem like not many games at all use it. However, they are making an effort to merge software with hardware. I mean like, 90% of titles on wii can't be played on the ds or 3ds...you know? We think of Nintendo as these core franchises that yeah, they could be played on anything with a dpad and buttons. But that is not the reality of nintendo, because we are core gamers on vgc, and we are only thinking of core franchises.

But what examples can you find this gen? How many 3DS games can't be done on Wii U, for example?
Yes, you don't have 3D and those streetpass games, but i can't think of other examples where HW comes into play in such a defining way.

Regarding 3D, it's just a question of them figuring out a way where the home console version isn't crippled due to lack of 3D.

Wii games had motion that can also be emulated by touch controls. If not that, it might just be due to HW differences as Iwata mentioned before.

If both the next HH and the next HC share the same basic tech (leaving 3D for the HH), then you won't have a situation where one side gets the worst version.

While it's true that there aren't a ton of games that couldn't be done on WiiU, there's also the problem of why they'd be on wiiU. Just for instance, Nintendo has said that Pokemon will always be a handheld franchise, with spinoffs on console. This is subject to change, but it does give us some insight on how Nintendo strategizes their games. They believe that some games aren't meant for other consoles.

Additionally, they've said that moving forward, they want to "marry software to hardware" in order to "create new ways to play". Such a statement doesn't come off to me as "interchangeable hardware with different resolutions". It says, new gimmicks (in a good way) that create new experiences. I think that strategy will hold true once we see the Nx at e3.