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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama's Continued War on Human Rights

Nettles said:
JinxRake said:
Funny how most of us here in Europe don't live with the fear of being shot down in our homes or on the street or in schools by some random crazy lunatic.


Yes.Because Charlie Hebdo never happened.


More people than the Charlie hebdo incident get killed in Chicago many standard nights. And that was terrorism. Not a standard shooting caused by the abundance of guns in a country. 

 

And the argument for more guns, being impartial about this, let's throw this out there. Yes because 9/11 never happened. You're implying that a society without guns has incidents like Charlie hebdo. Yet a society that claims that more guns will fix the issue has larger scale terrorist attacks to deal with. Then there are the dozens of school shootings etc. they happen with or without gun control. But in reality, they are more common in the US.



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Nettles said:
Gun ownership doesn't fit into Obombers socialist utopia agenda.


America doesn't even have the infrastructure for free public healthcare. If you do actually understand what socialism is, how could you ever foresee America being socialist? It's impossible. I doubt your president is this stupid. 



 

Nettles said:
JinxRake said:
Funny how most of us here in Europe don't live with the fear of being shot down in our homes or on the street or in schools by some random crazy lunatic.


Yes.Because Charlie Hebdo never happened.


It wouldn't have happened if people had more respect for each other.



cfin2987@gmail.com said:

The murder rate in the US is insane and yes, many people here do fear being shot down. A realistic fear even in Wisconsin. Why else would people feel the need to buy a gun? To defend themselves from being shot down. There is no other reason. Either buy a gun to defend yourself, thus you fear being shit down, or you buy a gun to do the shooting down. 

You are over-exagerrating things. I haven't ever felt afraid of being shot at. I've never heard a gun shot in a public area, other than once by a police-officer, or I guess if you qualify the woods during hunting seasons as a public area. Most people own guns because of the hunting culture, and that spread in to a sports culture. Self-defense is bigger today as a reason for gun ownership because the groups who need it the most are encouraged to learn to own guns for this reason. As many stories as I read of people being murdered by guns (usually in urban areas where the black market drug sales are rampant) I also hear about people protecting themselves using guns, especially children and women: the most vulnerable of people. The people they are protecting themselves against do not have guns. They are larger men who can easily harm such children and women because they are stronger and more powerful. The gun makes things more equal. 

The population of Wyoming (not Wisconsin) is 563,626. Five people died of gun murders last year. 5/563,626 = .89/100,000. The total homicide rate is 1/100,000. The total homicide rate in Ireland is 1.2/100,000, and the gun homicide rate is .26/100,000. Which, yeah is three-times less likely, but that is like saying if you buy three lottery tickets you are three times more likely to win the lottery. You still probably won't win. And you are still more likely to be murdered in Ireland (as a whole) than you are to die in Wyoming (as a whole.) 

If you are in a bad part of any city, you should worry about being robbed, killed, or raped. And those are the only places where anybody walking down the street is afraid of being shot. 

I do appreciate that you are trying to illustrate to other Europeans the American perspective though. I just think you are exaggerating a little bit, with the fear of being shot, as one walks down the street thing. 



JinxRake said:
Funny how most of us here in Europe don't live with the fear of being shot down in our homes or on the street or in schools by some random crazy lunatic.

Funny neither do we. 



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Nettles said:
Gun ownership doesn't fit into Obombers socialist utopia agenda.

Shhhh, you're a conspiracy theroist if you say that type of stuff.



cfin2987@gmail.com said:
Nettles said:


Yes.Because Charlie Hebdo never happened.


More people than the Charlie hebdo incident get killed in Chicago many standard nights. And that was terrorism. Not a standard shooting caused by the abundance of guns in a country. 

 

And the argument for more guns, being impartial about this, let's throw this out there. Yes because 9/11 never happened. You're implying that a society without guns has incidents like Charlie hebdo. Yet a society that claims that more guns will fix the issue has larger scale terrorist attacks to deal with. Then there are the dozens of school shootings etc. they happen with or without gun control. But in reality, they are more common in the US.

Lol, you named a city where guns are practically banned. 



sc94597 said:
cfin2987@gmail.com said:

The murder rate in the US is insane and yes, many people here do fear being shot down. A realistic fear even in Wisconsin. Why else would people feel the need to buy a gun? To defend themselves from being shot down. There is no other reason. Either buy a gun to defend yourself, thus you fear being shit down, or you buy a gun to do the shooting down. 

You are over-exagerrating things. I haven't ever felt afraid of being shot at. I've never heard a gun shot in a public area, other than once by a police-officer, or I guess if you qualify the woods during hunting seasons as a public area. Most people own guns because of the hunting culture, and that spread in to a sports culture. Self-defense is bigger today as a reason for gun ownership because the groups who need it the most are encouraged to learn to own guns for this reason. As many stories as I read of people being murdered by guns (usually in urban areas where the black market drug sales are rampant) I also hear about people protecting themselves using guns, especially children and women: the most vulnerable of people. The people they are protecting themselves against do not have guns. They are larger men who can easily harm such children and women because they are stronger and more powerful. The gun makes things more equal. 

The population of Wyoming (not Wisconsin) is 563,626. Five people died of gun murders last year. 5/563,626 = .89/100,000. The total homicide rate is 1/100,000. The total homicide rate in Ireland is 1.2/100,000, and the gun homicide rate is .26/100,000. Which, yeah is three-times less likely, but that is like saying if you buy three lottery tickets you are three times more likely to win the lottery. You still probably won't win. And you are still more likely to be murdered in Ireland (as a whole) than you are to die in Wyoming (as a whole.) 

If you are in a bad part of any city, you should worry about being robbed, killed, or raped. And those are the only places where anybody walking down the street is afraid of being shot. 

I do appreciate that you are trying to illustrate to other Europeans the American perspective though. I just think you are exaggerating a little bit, with the fear of being shot, as one walks down the street thing. 

You are more likely to die in Ireland than you are to be murdered in Wyoming? What the? That's some nonsense right there. Wyoming doesn't even have a major city so it's not comparable at all. Dublin alone is twice the population of your state. The usa murder rate per 100,000 is 2.4. The Irish rate includes manslaughter. The us rate does not. Murders in Ireland are 90% of the time a criminal on criminal murder. In Wisconsin or Illinois I often hear of kids being shot in the head as they sit in their homes. Here, read channel3000.com. Then read rte.ie and compare. In my living memory I remember one cop death in Ireland and no cops shooting civilians. In Wisconsin, just this year there have been numerous of both. Say what you want but that's what I live with.



NobleTeam360 said:

Lol, you named a city where guns are practically banned.

A city where you just have to go outside its unsecured boundaries to buy guns.



cfin2987@gmail.com said:

You are more likely to die in Ireland than you are to be murdered in Wyoming? What the? Wyoming doesn't even have a major city so it's not comparable at all. The usa murder rate per 100,000 is 2.4. The Irish rate includes manslaughter. The use rate does not. Murders in Ireland are 90% of the time a criminal on criminal murder. In Wisconsin or Illinois I often hear of kids being shot in the head as they sit in their homes. Here, read channel3000.com. Then read rte.ie and compare. In my living memory I remember one cop death in Ireland and no cops shooting civilians. In Wisconsin, just this year there have been numerous of both. Say what you want but that's what I live with.

I'm pretty sure the stastic said the intentional homicide rate, so would that really include manslaughter?  And the same can be said for the U.S. Murders, especially gun related murders, are induced by drug activity and sales. Most people on the news who die by a gunshot are involved with drugs one way or another. Can you source the kids shot in their head thing. If it does exist, I'm sure it was because the parents owed money to their drug dealer or something like that, and the drug dealer decided to have a drive-by shooting. I'm also sure it was probably in a gun-controlled city, where you can't own one legally, like Chicago or Detroit. 

But still 2.4 vs. 1.2 is certainly not justification to say, people walk down the street afraid. That is silly. Especially, when in many states the homicide rate is similar to Ireland (New England, and the Mid West are especially safe.)