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Forums - Nintendo - It's sad, really Sad! >_<

 

What do you want?

Just one console for all the games (fusion) 91 35.97%
 
Nintendo digital platform for PC and consoles 35 13.83%
 
A very powerful console 82 32.41%
 
Crazy stuff like wii and wii u. 45 17.79%
 
Total:253
kljesta64 on 02 March 2015

the only problem is the lack of third party 'gamers' on nintendo consoles.

and by third party gamers I mean casual gamers.



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teigaga on 02 March 2015
sundin13 said:
teigaga said:

Third parties have given Nintendo support from the get go for the last 2 generations. Its definitely not "mostly" they're doing. Nintendo hasn't made consoles in the last 2 gens that appeal to their audience, so people interested in the third party content don't use Nintendo's systems as their primary consoles. Even if the likes of Witcher 3 and Arkham Knight were coming to Wii U, its audience would still go to the PS4 to play the game. Nintendo shouldn't have to change, but they'd have to in order for most third parties to find success on their systems.


You and I have a different definition of "support"

Well I don't recall there being anything wrong with Assassins Creed 3 and IV, they should have performed better. The X1 version of ACIV outsold the Wii U's by 10:1. How come?




uran10 on 02 March 2015

Nintendo isn't a big part of the problem, the third party are. I might be one of those guys that cry conspiracy but seriously, do you expect year old ports to sell well? I don't. Especially if they run better on weaker hardware. Nintendo gave them HD graphics and its as easy to design for as a 360. Nintendo could give them the most powerful console ever and they wouldn't support them. Money hatting is dumb so that is out of the question. The only thing and i mean the only thing nintendo needs to do at this point is expand and grow. They should have started this last gen when they were making said money but it can't be helped now. They need to buy some developers and open more studios so they have more games in the pipeline. A lot of these "indie devs" are gonna make it big, and if nintendo sees potential they should partner with them. etc etc.
Long story short, Nintendo expansion = more games = more sales for console because less droughts.



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Teriol on 02 March 2015
kljesta64 said:
the only problem is the lack of third party 'gamers' on nintendo consoles.

and by third party gamers I mean casual gamers.

Your a  wise guy.

+10



34 years playing games.

 

sundin13 on 02 March 2015
teigaga said:
sundin13 said:


You and I have a different definition of "support"

Well I don't recall there being anything wrong with Assassins Creed 3 and IV, they should have performed better. The X1 version of ACIV outsold the Wii U's by 10:1. How come?


A myriad of reasons...I don't disagree that the audience for these games aren't on Nintendo consoles. Just that this problem isn't simply the fault of Nintendo and there is certainly no easy way out.

PS: Nothing wrong with AC4? 

"With performance so far behind every other version of the game, it's hard to recommend the Wii U game at all"

"Wii U version not getting any DLC."

We've become conditioned to be cynical of third parties, and seemingly every third party release just reinforces these doubts..



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torok on 02 March 2015
Skullwaker said:
Yeah, Nintendo Fusion would solve a lot of problems. That and making their hardware more friendly for third party developers.


Creating a home console with the power of a portable one (that simply would end up being weaker than PS4 while PS5/Xnext are out) would make it not friendly for 3rd parties, since most games would need to be redone to fit in the old specs.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

Kerotan on 02 March 2015
kljesta64 said:
the only problem is the lack of third party 'gamers' on nintendo consoles.

and by third party gamers I mean casual gamers.


I guarantee I've played more games than the average hardcore wii or wii u gamer.  I must be a pretty hardcore casual lol. 

 

OT: were the two ports announced? 



Nuvendil on 02 March 2015
zorg1000 said:
Nuvendil said:
zorg1000 said:
Nuvendil said:

One thing's for sure, if you want that enhanced third party support, the Fusion isn't going to get it. It would be at an absurd power disadvantage to ninth gen hardware along with other complexities that would come from having a handheld and console as one device. The only aspect of Fusion that I think makes any sense is having similar OS's and having the systems be very similar in terms of how you code for them. That would allow for more fluidity in Nintendo's dev teams. Other than that, keep the two platforms separate.


The point of the unified concept is that they can be more self-reliant and nullify the need for 3rd parties by significantly increasing their internal software output. 3rd parties are still welcome, they just aren't the main focus, plus it will still likely get the strong support from Japanese devs since Nintendo has pretty good relations with them and indie support which Nintendo has been increasing relations with over the last few years.

It also wouldn't be one device, it would be a unified ecosystem, things like architecture, operating system, online infrastructure would all be the same but they would have multiple devices in different form factors that share the same games/apps similar to the way Apple does with their iOS devices like iPod/iPhone/iPad/Apple TV.

We could see something like Nintendo Fusion, a Wii U level handheld with a 5 inch, 480p screen, released Spring 2016 then in the Fall they release Fusion TV, a more poweful console version that plays all the same games but in 1080p with some extra effects. Then in Summer 2017 release Fusion Mini and Fusion XL, which are the same as the original handheld but with 4 inch and 6 inch screens. From that point do incremental upgrades every 1.5-2 years or so, upgrade the handheld line to 720p in fall 2018 then upgrade the console to 4k in fall 2019 then the handheld line again to 1080p in fall 2020. Something like this to keep hardware sales from faltering and allowing Nintendo to continue pumping out games for a single unified ecosystem.

What I hear people talk about the most is 1 device, so pardon my statement if that's not what you think.

I highly, highly doubt we will see Nintendo start producing itterations that are any significant improvement that quickly.  The business model that phone manufacturers use for that is not present in the console market, it wouldn't be sustainable.  And this whole "all games on both platforms" presumes that the demographics and expectations of Nintendo's handheld and console markets are the same.  Given the sales of their device lines, I would say that this is clearly not the case.  I think we will see Nintendo continue to work towards similar development environments on their platforms to allow for fluidity in their development teams, but I can almost guarantee you that there will remain largely a wall of segregation between the platforms because console and handheld games are not the same and the domagraphics do not overlap as much as people seem to insist.  And power *does* matter to a degree.  If Nintendo releases a home console that just upscales Wii U games in 2017, it will do extremely poorly.  The sheer ammount of negative press would dwarf the Wii U's poor reception and the sales would tank. 

I honestly believe that we will see Nintendo's next handheld and console launch as separate devices with a broad power gap in 2017.  The development environments will be more similar, but the devices will be very different and the bulk of each platform's library will be exclussive to that platform.

I'm basing it more on Iwata's recent statements, who said with a unified ecosystem they could potentially increase the number of form factors.

Well they did just release New 3DS, so Nintendo isnt against the idea of incremental upgrades mid-gen. New 3DS has a faster CPU, more RAM and better 3D, isn't that essentially what phone upgrades do? Mildly better processor, more RAM, higher resolution.

Most of Nintendo's franchises have seen success on both handhelds and consoles. 2D/3D Mario, 2D/3D Zelda, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Paper Mario, Mario Sports, Mario Party have all been successful on both types of devices. I agree that some are more suited for one or the other, something like Pokemon or Animal Crossing might be more suited for handhelds and big open-world games like Zelda or Xenoblade might be more suitable for consoles but the fact is that they are completely playable on either form factor so it comes down to how u would personally want to play them. Also with cross-buy/cross-save and allowing the handheld to act as a gamepad for the console when synced together, Nintendo can create ways to make owning both a worthwhile investment.

Ya just like Wii, which was a small leap over Gamecube, sold poorly and had a ton of negative press.......oh wait, it sold over 100 million, more than  the powerful HD consoles with full AAA support, and was the most profitable console ever. Now obviously I'm not suggesting this device would sell Wii numbers, but it doesn't have to. Nintendo could realistically sell something like 50-60 million of the handheld and 20 million consoles are post a healthy profit.

With this strategy Nintendo can increase software output and will no longer need to release 2 installments of every franchise meaning Nintendo can start creating more new ip and reviving old ip. For example, Nintendo won't need to release MK9 on the handheld then 2 years later release MK10 on the console, instead they can make one that's playable on both then move on to something else like revive F-Zero or a new racing ip with a different play style, something like a cross between Crazy Taxi and Need for Speed, while continuing to support Mario Kart with DLC and Amiibo support. Same goes for other teams, no need to release NSMB3 then 3-4 months later release NSMBU2, they can just create one bigger better game that truly innovates on the 2D Mario formula.

Then consider R&D costs and hardware costs. I'm guessing it's much cheaper to create a console using similar components as the handheld than it is to create a powerful PS5/XB4 level system. I think Nintendo is better off releasing a sub-$200 console than a $400 powerful console that still fails to get AAA support. Then if the powerful console does sell poorly, the games are going to suffer by being on a 15-20 million install base instead of the 70-80 million install base of the handheld+console.

Overall I see this benefitting Nintendo more than it harms them, a more streamlined hardware/software approach that minimizes costs while maximizing profits, continue to support and expand on DLC & Amiibo, then continue to attract new customers thru expanding businesses like licensing out ip for movies/series and QoL. If Nintendo executes this strategy correctly then they should see a lot of success in the next 5-10 years.

It's entirely different to from the Wii!  The Wii was more powerful than the 6th gen consoles in practical performance, including the original Xbox.  What you are suggesting would be more like if Nintendo had released something like a slightly more powerful Dreamcast to compete with the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.  And that would have been bad.  Never in the history of home consoles has  console launched and been successful that was weaker in practical performance than the previous gen's offerings.  Ever.

And you were suggesting very rapid itterations.  The 3DS has been out for a while and this is the very first itteration to provide any noteworthy improvements in hardware.  I have no doubt there will always be the equivalent of your XL, Lite, SP, etc etc, but it is highly unlikely you will have multiple New 3DS-type upgrades in a generation. 

And just because their franchises have seen success does not mean that the games are the exact same.  Super Mario 3D Land is a handheld game through and through, it is not the same as Super Mario 3D World because - wait for it - it is designed for the handheld demographic not the home console one.  I'm not saying none of their franchises can be moved between the two.  2D platformers are more flexible in this regard and games that are easier by nature, like Kirby, can be.  But most handheld experiences are by their very design more vapid than home console counterparts because they cater to a specfiic set of expectations. 

I am not saying there won't be any cross-platform games.  I could see Smash and Kart being cross platform as handhelds increase in power.  But the devices will remain separate.  And Iwata's most recent statements discussed specifically a shared development envirnment that will make programming for each platform easier, allowing for greater flexibility in delegation of development resources.  I fully expect that.  And of course, the advancement of handheld technology is going to make this easier, that's just common sense. 

But we clearly don't agree on this so let's just agree to disagree. 



Skullwaker on 02 March 2015
torok said:
Creating a home console with the power of a portable one (that simply would end up being weaker than PS4 while PS5/Xnext are out) would make it not friendly for 3rd parties, since most games would need to be redone to fit in the old specs.

I'm not even sure PS5/Xnext or whatever will even be actual consoles. Sony is leaning towards a streaming service and Microsoft is all about Windows 10 lately, so they might not put out traditional consoles. 

Either way, if they can't make it powerful enough to be on par or relatively close to the 'new consoles' than they need to make a choice. Either combine their handheld and console markets so that they can put all of their software into one space, which would improve their output, or they can make an extremely powerful console that's friendly to third parties and risk it. Both options have positives and negatives.



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zorg1000 on 02 March 2015
Nuvendil said:

It's entirely different to from the Wii!  The Wii was more powerful than the 6th gen consoles in practical performance, including the original Xbox.  What you are suggesting would be more like if Nintendo had released something like a slightly more powerful Dreamcast to compete with the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.  And that would have been bad.  Never in the history of home consoles has  console launched and been successful that was weaker in practical performance than the previous gen's offerings.  Ever.

And you were suggesting very rapid itterations.  The 3DS has been out for a while and this is the very first itteration to provide any noteworthy improvements in hardware.  I have no doubt there will always be the equivalent of your XL, Lite, SP, etc etc, but it is highly unlikely you will have multiple New 3DS-type upgrades in a generation. 

And just because their franchises have seen success does not mean that the games are the exact same.  Super Mario 3D Land is a handheld game through and through, it is not the same as Super Mario 3D World because - wait for it - it is designed for the handheld demographic not the home console one.  I'm not saying none of their franchises can be moved between the two.  2D platformers are more flexible in this regard and games that are easier by nature, like Kirby, can be.  But most handheld experiences are by their very design more vapid than home console counterparts because they cater to a specfiic set of expectations. 

I am not saying there won't be any cross-platform games.  I could see Smash and Kart being cross platform as handhelds increase in power.  But the devices will remain separate.  And Iwata's most recent statements discussed specifically a shared development envirnment that will make programming for each platform easier, allowing for greater flexibility in delegation of development resources.  I fully expect that.  And of course, the advancement of handheld technology is going to make this easier, that's just common sense. 

But we clearly don't agree on this so let's just agree to disagree. 

But who cares that Wii was more powerful than Xbox? It had like 1/20th the power of PS3/360 and it still outsold them, nobody and I literally mean nobody bought a Wii because it was ever so slightly more powerful than Xbox. Saying something has never happened is not a legitimate reason for why it can't happen. Before Wii, there had never been a successful console that launched at such a small increase in power over the previous generation, yet it happened. Don't rule out things because they haven't happened yet, nothing new would ever happen if that rule was true.

U have to take into account that Iwata said they plan to redefine gaming in the next 2 years, they clearly are going for something rather unconventional. U need to think outside the box a bit, doing more frequent upgrades that change our perception of generations and unifying the handheld and console markets could fall into that philosophy. Think back to 2003, before Nintendo had announced DS or Wii, did u ever for a second think Nintendo was going to try and implement dual-screen/touch-screen gameplay into the GBA successor or motion controls and small power upgrade over Gamecube after making a powerful console or that NIntendo would find huge success in education and fitness games?

Yes, 3D Land and 3D World are different games but is the gameplay any different? 3D World is just a natural expansion of 3D Land due to having more powerful hardware, but 3D World is still a 100% suitable handheld game, their is literally nothing about it that wouldn't work on the go. There is not a single Nintendo series that I can think of that would be unplayable on either device as long as they shared similar control inputs.



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