By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony's Woes Show Just How Bad Nintendo's Are

A_C_E said:
The Wii sold really well because Nintendo was selling to a new crowd. The Wii U isn't selling to a new crowd, they are selling to the Gamecube/N64 crowd, the only difference is that Nintendo was very profitable during their N64/Gamecube years.

In no small part due to their handhelds.



Around the Network

Sonys woes are due to their other failing products, not the PS4. Nintendo is only failing with their home console, and the 3DS and 3DS software sales help minimize the damage. (like PS4 does for Vita).

It isn't at all comparable.



RolStoppable said:
When the reception is bad, change what you are doing.
When the reception is good, stay the course.

The market didn't like the GameCube, so Nintendo made the Wii.
The market liked the Wii, so Nintendo followed it up with a console that is like the GameCube.

That's a pretty glaring error. It's idiotic too.

Er, what? The philosophy behind the wiiu was exactly the same as the wii. Create a controller that the masses will like and will buy you console for and keep the console weak to make sure it's cheap enough for the casuals. It was an idea that was praised to death when it was revealed, only to be criticized to death by the same people when sales were lower than expected. Ninty and many of its fans thought it was a great idea because tablets were and still are incredibly popular with the masses and wii was successful despite being weaker than ps360. Things didn't go as expected but the emphasis on the casuals was the same. 



Lawlight said:
A_C_E said:
The Wii sold really well because Nintendo was selling to a new crowd. The Wii U isn't selling to a new crowd, they are selling to the Gamecube/N64 crowd, the only difference is that Nintendo was very profitable during their N64/Gamecube years.

In no small part due to their handhelds.

Oh for sure but its still well known that Nintendo had a very profitable Gamecube and N64 even though their sales weren't even close to the competitors.



Aeolus451 said:
theprof00 said:
@aeolus
im not saying the gaming market consumers are wrong, im saying nintendo fans dont support their franchises. But im glad u replied because theres another point to address here. And the issue is that nintendo does make great gameplay, but they havent done enough. The marios and zeldas and metrpids of the future are going to be made by independant devs. The one thing that separates indies from studios in the current era, is the funding. And even that is changing.
Look at the examples I put forth. Gta halo cod uncharted.
These are games with almost limitless monetary backing. And the sales show.
these kinds of games are the style nowadays.
and the problem definitely resides within the nintendo fanbase.
you don't have to look any further than new super mario wii and ds.
One commercial with that first level and boom, the fans eat it right up.
and thats because nintendo has won the hearts of thier consumers, but not the passion.
there is passion for those other franchises because they wow the current market. And that will change too eventually, but nintendo fans dont go out and buy the new Zelda. They go out and buy their first zelda.


Using a phone? I'm glad that I noticed your reply. Personally, I don't believe in supporting a series or a dev whenever a game comes out unless I'm geniunely interested in that game. I have to disagree with you on "supporting". It's a bad idea/habit.

It's up to the devs/publishers to make a game that will appeal to me and to market it to me. If they don't then I won't buy it. Nintendo has forgotten that proverbial truth. I'm not married to 'em. Neither is any gamer. We're not gonna support them through thick and thin. The games need to be appealing or they won't sell well. If the games aren't appealing then the console won't sell.

Yes, nintendo needs to market their games/console but first they need something to market. How about a lot of new IP's that appeal to adults outside of the nintendo fanbase? Xbone is not that far out of reach for 'em. 

Just for clarification, I don't play any games from these series anymore because the individual games don't appeal to me and haven't evolved as a series for the most part. Cod, assassin's creed, battlefield, zelda, mario related games, god of war, elder scrolls/fallout (if they keep releasing glitchy & broken), devil may cry, resident evil. That's all I can think of at the moment. Yes, I don't play a lot of the 3rd party games from established series. I used to play 'em but the fundamental issues I had with the games never changed or that the series just got boring over time. 

 

haha I was using a phone, nice catch.

It's a two part problem.
Nintendo has indeed lost focus on what they need to do. However, they are getting back on track, I believe with amiibo and the "return to the core". Nintendo knows, as I've known, that disruption cannot continue. I predicted this way back when http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=141151&page=1

I said they are going to be releasing some awesome games, but because of their focus on hitting the casual audience, it's going to crap the system. I also said in another thread (many others) that disruption can only last for so long. I often asked, "after wii, what can you possibly change to innovate". I often derided the vitality sensor, and hoped they would return to the core. Even Iwata had hoped that wiiU would reintroduce the core http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/125669/Iwata_Wii_Us_More_Conventional_Controller_Brings_The_Core_Back_To_Nintendo.php

But the problem is the exact same problem that x1 is going through right now. You can't target EVERY demographic. They stretched themselves thin by trying to do both, and it's cost them. PS4 on the other hand did just a simple console with casual software features like web2.0 stuff. Traditional controller, no real major changes.

Anyway, back to the point, they need to focus on what the current market likes. They like traditional core games with a casualized edge. Look at all the most popular games right now. THey're all a casualized version of a more core game. Those rts phone games, hearthstone, cod, etc. They're all very pick up and play where pretty much anyone can jump in and have fun. Metroid other M was not this. Look at the plethora of metroidvania games coming out on steam. There's a suite of them. Gamers WANT it, but they want something more modernized than simple platforming.

On one hand, you're right, a gamer shouldn't support a game just because it's in their franchise. However, turning it around, it's the company's job to make gamers want to buy the game in their franchise, REGARDLESS of their preferences. If a new Tropico comes out, and people say it's not that good, I will STILL get it because it's my favorite city builder.

However, onto the second part of the problem:
Nintendo doesn't make bad games. So it's not like people aren't supporting the game because it's bad. They're not supporting because they've stopped caring. Like I said, look at New Super Mario Bros wii and ds. Almost 30m in sales. 26m to be accurate. Galaxy barely broke 11m. Is it because galaxy is bad? No. Galaxy is a GREAT mario game. THe problem is, Super Mario 1 for the NES has their fans by the balls. Like I said, people I know will see mario, and instead of buying the new game, will go out and buy a used nintendo and mario 3. Because that is where their heart is. Nintendo has lost the Passion of their gamers. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Call of Duty fans will rush out and buy 5m first day. Activision has their audience by the "dick". It's a sad fact, but it's true. Nintendo has the heart, but the new ips have the balls.

Nintendo will be most successful if they can make people want to support their games. Making good games alone is not enough. There are hundreds of good games on steam and they are quality. Honestly, I think N is too polite. I think they're too humble. They need to be aggressive and exciting.



Around the Network

I'm sorry, he looks almost like Will Smith clone lol. No offense! xD

Edit: Seriously. Almost PS4 games are trying to be cinematic cgi not all about gameplay. I hate watching cutscenes, it makes me drop my controller & stare at the screen. Why can't they make games like Half-Life 2 or Bioshock Infinite?

Nintendo is out of luck that lost third party support, but i don't care, i still buying Wii U games exclusively like Zelda or Xeno or Kirby etc.



Yup. Completely agree with the OP. Everyone says it is only about the games but this gen proves that people DO care about quality and price/performance of their hardware as well.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

Ka-pi96 said:

I can't remember Sony releasing a single flop. So basically he's lying? Glad I never watched it then.


Indeed. My curiosity stems from what quantifies as a "failure" in terms of software to him? In addition, is this a knee-jerk reaction towards Order's metacritic? Also, if Order's metacritic is accounted for, would it be safe to assume games like Second Son and Shadowfall are failures?



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

A_C_E said:
Lawlight said:

In no small part due to their handhelds.

Oh for sure but its still well known that Nintendo had a very profitable Gamecube and N64 even though their sales weren't even close to the competitors.

I don't know about that. I don't think we ever got separate figures for the consoles and handhelds.



theprof00 said:
Aeolus451 said:


Using a phone? I'm glad that I noticed your reply. Personally, I don't believe in supporting a series or a dev whenever a game comes out unless I'm geniunely interested in that game. I have to disagree with you on "supporting". It's a bad idea/habit.

It's up to the devs/publishers to make a game that will appeal to me and to market it to me. If they don't then I won't buy it. Nintendo has forgotten that proverbial truth. I'm not married to 'em. Neither is any gamer. We're not gonna support them through thick and thin. The games need to be appealing or they won't sell well. If the games aren't appealing then the console won't sell.

Yes, nintendo needs to market their games/console but first they need something to market. How about a lot of new IP's that appeal to adults outside of the nintendo fanbase? Xbone is not that far out of reach for 'em. 

Just for clarification, I don't play any games from these series anymore because the individual games don't appeal to me and haven't evolved as a series for the most part. Cod, assassin's creed, battlefield, zelda, mario related games, god of war, elder scrolls/fallout (if they keep releasing glitchy & broken), devil may cry, resident evil. That's all I can think of at the moment. Yes, I don't play a lot of the 3rd party games from established series. I used to play 'em but the fundamental issues I had with the games never changed or that the series just got boring over time. 

 

haha I was using a phone, nice catch.

It's a two part problem.
Nintendo has indeed lost focus on what they need to do. However, they are getting back on track, I believe with amiibo and the "return to the core". Nintendo knows, as I've known, that disruption cannot continue. I predicted this way back when http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=141151&page=1

I said they are going to be releasing some awesome games, but because of their focus on hitting the casual audience, it's going to crap the system. I also said in another thread (many others) that disruption can only last for so long. I often asked, "after wii, what can you possibly change to innovate". I often derided the vitality sensor, and hoped they would return to the core. Even Iwata had hoped that wiiU would reintroduce the core http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/125669/Iwata_Wii_Us_More_Conventional_Controller_Brings_The_Core_Back_To_Nintendo.php

But the problem is the exact same problem that x1 is going through right now. You can't target EVERY demographic. They stretched themselves thin by trying to do both, and it's cost them. PS4 on the other hand did just a simple console with casual software features like web2.0 stuff. Traditional controller, no real major changes.

Anyway, back to the point, they need to focus on what the current market likes. They like traditional core games with a casualized edge. Look at all the most popular games right now. THey're all a casualized version of a more core game. Those rts phone games, hearthstone, cod, etc. They're all very pick up and play where pretty much anyone can jump in and have fun. Metroid other M was not this. Look at the plethora of metroidvania games coming out on steam. There's a suite of them. Gamers WANT it, but they want something more modernized than simple platforming.

On one hand, you're right, a gamer shouldn't support a game just because it's in their franchise. However, turning it around, it's the company's job to make gamers want to buy the game in their franchise, REGARDLESS of their preferences. If a new Tropico comes out, and people say it's not that good, I will STILL get it because it's my favorite city builder.

However, onto the second part of the problem:
Nintendo doesn't make bad games. So it's not like people aren't supporting the game because it's bad. They're not supporting because they've stopped caring. Like I said, look at New Super Mario Bros wii and ds. Almost 30m in sales. 26m to be accurate. Galaxy barely broke 11m. Is it because galaxy is bad? No. Galaxy is a GREAT mario game. THe problem is, Super Mario 1 for the NES has their fans by the balls. Like I said, people I know will see mario, and instead of buying the new game, will go out and buy a used nintendo and mario 3. Because that is where their heart is. Nintendo has lost the Passion of their gamers. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Call of Duty fans will rush out and buy 5m first day. Activision has their audience by the "dick". It's a sad fact, but it's true. Nintendo has the heart, but the new ips have the balls.

Nintendo will be most successful if they can make people want to support their games. Making good games alone is not enough. There are hundreds of good games on steam and they are quality. Honestly, I think N is too polite. I think they're too humble. They need to be aggressive and exciting.


I think that nintendo could reignite that passion you're talking about but I guess we'll see. I pretty much agree with you.