Rol's joke thread was pertinent. 

At the end of the day, dismissing a game before its out is often counterproductive. But equally counterproductive is all this silly defense of poor practices in games. Like offering limited content, having appalling endings, using QTE's where better gameplay options exist.

If you want to say 'lets just wait and see if the Order really has all these things before we attack it,' that would be fine. But so many in this thread and others are actually defending these practices (on principle) and it is incredibly apparent in most cases that its because they fear they are present in The Order, and want to defend that title specifically.

That just encourages other developers to make those poor design decisions, irrespective of whether they actually wind up being abundant in The Order.

Rol's joke thread was pertinent. 

At the end of the day, dismissing a game before its out is often counterproductive. But equally counterproductive is all this silly defense of poor practices in games. Like offering limited content, having appalling endings, using QTE's where better gameplay options exist.

If you want to say 'lets just wait and see if the Order really has all these things before we attack it,' that would be fine. But so many in this thread and others are actually defending these practices (on principle) and it is incredibly apparent in most cases that its because they fear they are present in The Order, and want to defend that title specifically.

That just encourages other developers to make those poor design decisions, irrespective of whether they actually wind up being abundant in The Order.

Whatever helps you out, doesn't matter to me what you think of it. Either way, no pass was given to Wolfenstein, hope that helps.

What does Ham mean? 

And yes you bought both with one of them being like tthe order.  The point is you have posted that it's not value for money for you but ryse and Wolfenstein still justified $60 purchases.  If you are mad that people bashed ryse it doesn't make it right to take your anger from that out on the order.  For the record I didn't bash ryse and you won't see me either.  2 wrongs don't make a right. 

Umm...well, I don't think a bad ending has ever been a design choice...but the other two things you mention I would think would be personal preference would they not? Somebody might think that The Order doesn't offer enough content, while others may think it does, Someone might hate QTE and someone else may either not mind them or like them. 

I don't know about you but I don't consider someone giving an unpopular opinion on a game mechanic to be counterproductive.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of QTE. But I don't mind them if character needs to perform a task to complex for the regular controls, or even just to keep the player involved. But I don't feel strongly enough about them either way to let them sway me on a game.

As for content, I would rather the dev team tell the story they want to tell and spend my $60 on a short game. Than have the dev finish the story and go "uh oh, it isn't long enough...we need to make this longer". I want the developer to make the best game they can, not the best value they can an As a consumer, I determine value based on how I feel when it's over, not based how much of my time it took up.

I have to agree with Norm here: 1) Offering "limited content" is misonomer if it's the exact amount of content needed to tell the narrative; this is an issue, however, when developers sell launch content as DLC to squeeze the consumer for cash (See Evolve, the game that largely skated for what most gamers find abominable.), 2) Whether or not an ending is "appalling" is arbitrary, a judgment made by each player, and never the objective of the developer, and 3) QTE's in lieu of "better ganeplay options" is wholly subjective and preferential: a game is designed however a game is designed, end of story. That's like saying that Mario Party should be an FPS, because it's a "better gameplay option." 

Let's look at this analogously: my friend hates Requiem for a Dream, because it makes him depressed. It's a fantastic film that drives home its message about addiction with the aim of making the viewer feel the characters' sufferings. Does this mean that all movies should be cheery, to suit his preferences? No. He could also complain that it's too short or should have been shot in monochrome. He also could have made all of these comments BEFORE IT WAS EVEN RELEASED. That's what the Order is experiencing right now, and it is patently unwarranted.

Here's a quote, in summation: "People are always saying, 'Life is hard!' Life is hard!? Based on what?"

Uncharted and specially TLOU are constantly called interactive movies, QTE-fests, "story with crappy gameplay", etc. Pretty much the same narrative as The Order. The main difference this time around is

a) The Order looks better than any PC game so instead of drawing only other console players it also attracted the ire of the Virgin Master Race.

b) PS4 is kicking ass and taking names, so both Nintendo and Xbox fans reinforce the narrative mentioned above because they are being sore losers. With the Wii and 360's success back when U1 was released, the same criticism was there but given the circumstances people just did it less because they were not "bothered by the PS3". By the time TLOU was released, things were already intensifying because PS3 was #1 and still gets trashed almost on a daily basis.

Moderated - Leadified