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Forums - Gaming - Help me answer the question whether videogames cause violence

Dr. Christopher Ferguson from Texas A&M does a lot of interesting studies on the effects of video games and other violent media:
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/7-08-10/article5.shtml
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/3-27-08/article13.shtml
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/11-16-07/article5.shtml
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/longterm-us-study-finds-no-links-between-violent-video-games-and-youth-violence-9851613.html

One of these is a meta-analysis (mass review) of "all published studies betwee 95 and 07" which said:
"The results indicated no relationship between violent game playing and aggression, but did find that violent game playing was associated with higher scores on measures of visuospatial cognition,"


Also worth noting the difference between "aggression" and "violence". A lot of studies examine the effect of video games on "aggression" in some rather strange ways, and while they may find a "link" (once again, using some strange methods), it is much more difficult to produce a link between playing video games and committing violent acts.



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sundin13 said:
Dr. Christopher Ferguson from Texas A&M does a lot of interesting studies on the effects of video games and other violent media:
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/7-08-10/article5.shtml
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/3-27-08/article13.shtml
http://www.tamiu.edu/newsinfo/11-16-07/article5.shtml
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/longterm-us-study-finds-no-links-between-violent-video-games-and-youth-violence-9851613.html

One of these is a meta-analysis (mass review) of "all published studies betwee 95 and 07" which said:
"The results indicated no relationship between violent game playing and aggression, but did find that violent game playing was associated with higher scores on measures of visuospatial cognition,"


Also worth noting the difference between "aggression" and "violence". A lot of studies examine the effect of video games on "aggression" in some rather strange ways, and while they may find a "link" (once again, using some strange methods), it is much more difficult to produce a link between playing video games and committing violent acts.

I'll certainly take a look at these, thanks. But from what I saw from Ferguson before, he seemed very biased.



Psychotic said:

I'll certainly take a look at these, thanks. But from what I saw from Ferguson before, he seemed very biased.


Do you have any links claiming that what he has done is bad science? He does do a lot of work on video games, but unless there is some fault found in his studies, that doesn't really mean much.

 

Also, take a look at the Supreme Court's 2011 opinion on the matter:

-"Psychological studies purporting to show a connection between exposure to violent video games and harmful effects on children do not prove that such exposure causes minors to act aggressively. Any demonstrated effects are both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media."
-"Instead, “[n]early all of the research is based on correlation, not evidence of causation, and most of the studies suffer from significant, admitted flaws in methodology""

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1448.pdf



sundin13 said:


Do you have any links claiming that what he has done is bad science? He does do a lot of work on video games, but unless there is some fault found in his studies, that doesn't really mean much.

No. *I* claim he seems biased. My personal feeling is that Ferguson on one side and Bushman and Anderson on the other turned this research into their own personal warzone and their inability to deal with criticism just implies their political motives behind their research. I do use their reasearch to some extent, but I do note that they seem to be more interested in fighting each other than doing good science.

 

sundin13 said:

Also, take a look at the Supreme Court's 2011 opinion on the matter:

I was aware of that decision. Thanks anyway.



Psychotic said:
SlayerRondo said:

To be fair they don't actually find a link between media violence and actual violence. They measure temporary increases in agression most often and that does not always equate to real life violence. When it comes to actual violence studies often show that video games have had a positive effect as people are less likely to act violently in the real world.

Are people who play violent video games more likely to do commit violent acts then those who play other video games, probably. But that would more likely indicate a correletory link rather than causal.


Many studies write in their conclusions that it is indeed causal effect real-life violence in the long term, not short term aggression, not a correlation. Maybe they're wrong, but hese are peer-reviewed studies and I can't dispute them effecively.

Could you direct me to the studies that showed people who started playing violent video games then started commiting violent acts. I always hear about studies that focus on the person's perceived mental state and not real life violence. My worry is they find people who already play violent video games biasing the study.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

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Psychotic said:
sundin13 said:


Do you have any links claiming that what he has done is bad science? He does do a lot of work on video games, but unless there is some fault found in his studies, that doesn't really mean much.

No. *I* claim he seems biased. My personal feeling is that Ferguson on one side and Bushman and Anderson on the other turned this research into their own personal warzone and their inability to deal with criticism just implies their political motives behind their research. I do use their reasearch to some extent, but I do note that they seem to be more interested in fighting each other than doing good science.

 

sundin13 said:

Also, take a look at the Supreme Court's 2011 opinion on the matter:

I was aware of that decision. Thanks anyway.


Ah, I wont disagree that it does seem like Ferguson falls strongly behind the opinion that video games do not cause violence, however, that doesn't mean he isn't doing good science. I have found numerous cases of criticism of Bushman and Anderson's work, however I am having trouble finding the same for Ferguson. This is partially due to the fact that Bushman and Anderson's opinions are unpopular in many areas, however, I think it is important to note. A fairly commonly held belief is that the majority of cases reaching a causal link between video games and violence are weak methodologically or have to reach to find that conclusion.

Also of note is the distinction of "violent video games". It is certainly of note to question whether the violence in video games are causing these reactions or if it is due to other factors such as pace of action and competitiveness. I know that I feel quite different playing a fast paced competive game then I would playing a slow paced noncompetitive game, regardless of the level of violence in either. 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917891000073X

I think a large chunk of the scientific community agree that factors such as mental health are infinitely more influential when finding a link to real world violence, and a focus on video games can be dangerously misrepresenting the problem.

@SlayerRondo: 

The only way to do that study is by looking at the media consumption of those who commited real world violence after the fact, and in a link I posted last page (or the page before), I posted a study like that which showed only 12% of school attackers showed an interest in violent video games, with both movies and books having over double that value. You'd assume that if video games were a stronger cause than other violent media, there would be a greater incidence of violent video game playing among school attackers but that is not the case.



It's not video games, it's the violent people. They can be violent playing COD or Bowling.



sundin13 said:


Ah, I wont disagree that it does seem like Ferguson falls strongly behind the opinion that video games do not cause violence, however, that doesn't mean he isn't doing good science. I have found numerous cases of criticism of Bushman and Anderson's work, however I am having trouble finding the same for Ferguson. This is partially due to the fact that Bushman and Anderson's opinions are unpopular in many areas, however, I think it is important to note. A fairly commonly held belief is that the majority of cases reaching a causal link between video games and violence are weak methodologically or have to reach to find that conclusion.

Also of note is the distinction of "violent video games". It is certainly of note to question whether the violence in video games are causing these reactions or if it is due to other factors such as pace of action and competitiveness. I know that I feel quite different playing a fast paced competive game then I would playing a slow paced noncompetitive game, regardless of the level of violence in either. 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917891000073X

I think a large chunk of the scientific community agree that factors such as mental health are infinitely more influential when finding a link to real world violence, and a focus on video games can be dangerously misrepresenting the problem.

I cannot disagree with any of this. Conclusions about videogames being big factors in real-life violence are indeed usually methodologically flimsy and that even if videogames did cause violence, there is no doubt it would be a minor factor anyway is very true.

However I don't think we have much good evidence to the contrary either and according to some psychilogical models of how aggression and violence work, it is very possible that there is at least a small indirect effect.



Psychotic said:
Augen said:
The issue tends to be showing a correlation. Some people may become desensitized to violence in gaming and be susceptible to acts. The problem is that these kind of minds in the absence of games could easily be affected by other stimuli in the same fashion.

In large numbers gaming has not shown to make cultures more violent. If anything we are less violent than our ancestors. However, there are other factors at play so I wouldn't jump to games causing us to be less violent.

We have been violent for thousands of years due to our brain development, it is humans burden to overcome their own violent nature. Good news is we're getting better, bad news is we have a ways to go.


But the truth is most of the research does conclude there is a causal relationship between media violence and real-life one. True, the critics of those stuides do point out major methodological errors in those studies, but still... I didn't read them (as I would have to buy them for a lot of money), so I can't ell if that's true and it's hard to sound unbiased when you disregard so many peer-reviewed studies.

A few points to think about.

- There is a vast difference between "media violence", and "video game" violence. The 2nd is not for real, hard to take for real, and for most people relieve from stress. Anyway, television violence, movie violence, and video game violence are distincts.

- Japan achieved a lower level of violence with a high level of video game. Here, note your want to relate "video games" and violence, and it's hard to think pokemon caused violence.

- I'd like to know how you find out the cause is video games. If some parents don't care about their kid education and basically leave them in front of the TV, with no parent control regarding the content, if something bad happens do you blame the video game violence or the parents, the eand the easy access to education at school and the easy access to weapons ?



mornelithe said:
HBninjaX said:

They don't cause violence.  According to Anita Sarkeesian they cause misogyny because they brainwash you with things called "tropes".

edit: youth violence is dropping precipitiously despite the rise in popularity in violent videogames like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto.  Playing games can make you more aggressive but they don't cause people to go commit a violent act.  There's plenty of information on the web, googling isn't hard.

Yeah, but she's a fuckin moron, given the volume of men who die in the games she 'covers', you could just as easily say they cause misandry.

I know, I was being facetious