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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sanity Check: PS4 still on its path to 100m+?

 

So what's your number?

<100m 77 25.50%
 
>100m 119 39.40%
 
>120m 40 13.25%
 
>140m 27 8.94%
 
Half-Life 3 comfirmed! 39 12.91%
 
Total:302
Materia-Blade said:
fatslob-:O said:
Easily so ...

There's no good reason to believe that this current generation will be shorter than the last generation ...

This time around both Microsoft and Sony will really start sticking to 10 years before they introduce a new platform to the market ...

That won't happen unless they want to go bankrupt. 10 years is 4 years too long.

Ps3 and Xbox 360 was doing good before Sony and Microsoft decide to kill it by releasing ps4 and xb1 and keep both consoles expensive.

When you see the numbers of cross-gen games it's difficult to believe 3rd party want a shorter and i don't believe both constructors want to release a next gen without third party support.



PS4 - over 100 millions let's say 120m
Xbox One - 70m
Wii U - 25m

Vita - 15m if it will not get Final Fantasy Kingdoms Heart and Monster Hunter 20m otherwise
3DS - 80m

Around the Network
Mummelmann said:


No Nintendo handheld has sold worse than its predecessor either, look at the 3DS numbers.

I'm still not sold on the PS4 selling more than the Wii, this gen will be a lot shorter and price reductions won't have the same impact on a product that released for a 600$ retail price versus one that released at 400$; the great changes might come at around the 250$ mark in most cases but in the PS4's case; that might be a little too late, developing markets are not the same cushion any longer, they are following the trends of mature markets and moving towards more convenience gaming and fringe titles for more casual customers (Buzz, Singstar, Rock Band etc.) practically don't exist on the PS4 (or One) and those that do are not doing so hot.
Look at the PS3 as well; it is moving super slow compared to the PS2 in these markets and in the twilight of its life, at this rate it'll be lucky to sell 25 million after the PS4 released where the PS2 sold in excess of 50 million.

Of course; the PS2 was market leader and sold a lot more but there is no denying that developing markets account for a lot less cumulative sales; it's not like they're buying 360's or Wii's either...
The market has changed and the fast-paced consumer electronics market will be harsher to static devices such as the PS4, One and Wii U than it ever was to the Wii, PS3 and 360.
In the middle of the 7th gen, there was a splintering of the gaming industry and market and several forms of gaming took of in popularity, this is bound to hurt traditional devices in some way and I believe it is (again; look at the 3DS, not to mention the poor Vita).

GBA sold less than gameboy.



vivster said:
thismeintiel said:
Ryng_Tolu said:
100m < PS4 < 120m

Yep, thinking ~115M-120M, myself.

@ OP

Personally, I don't see how people could think the PS4 can't make it to 100M.  Ever since the market grew with the PS1, no market leader has failed to make it to 100M+. The PS4 has also made it to 20M+ without a single PS big hitter.  No GT.  No GOW.  No Uncharted. No (possible) TLOU sequel.  Not to mention all the great new IPs Sony always launches each gen.  We got 2 just around the corner.

And it's done it without a WW price cut.  We still have a cut to $349 this year.  It could possibly be to $299, but if not, then it will be at $299 next year.  Then we have the PS4 Slim, which will come with either the $299 price cut or a $199/$249 one.  Speaking of a $199 price, sales should explode at that point, as long as it doesn't happen WAY late in the gen.  And considering Sony went with off the shelves parts, as well as a memory type that will still be falling in price, I wouldn't be too surprised if they are able to get it down to $99-$129 a year or so before they take it off of shelves.

The basic reasoning behind it is the assumption of a greatly changed electronic entertainment industry since the start of last gen. This includes:

- Shorter hardware cycles (see smartphones, televisions)

The only impact smartphones have had on the industry is that it has taken away much of the casual market for handheld devices.  This hasn't just automatically made people want to replace everything they own after having it a year or two.  Otherwise, everyone who wanted to jump onto this gen would have done it by now.

- People willing to pay more(hence more early adopters -> frontloaded gen)

$399 was just a great price for the PS4 (compared to $499 and $599 for PS3), hence why so many people bought it.  This really has no affect on total sales, just affects the time when those who would not buy it for $499, but instead wait til it was $399, got it. Once the PS4 hits $299, you're going to sales get a huge boost, again.

- Move away from dedicated devices(move to converged devices)

19M+ people bought the PS4 in less than a year in a half.  If that doesn't say people do want dedicated devices, I don't know what does.  Of course, ever since the PS1 theses consoles have not been just for playing games, so they aren't truly dedicated devices, in the traditional sense.

- Japan not giving a fuck

Yes, the home console market decreased in Japan in favor of handhelds and mobile phones.  However, we still don't know what the PS4 is going to sell like there since 3rd parties haven't thrown their full support behind it, still making games for older systems.  It looks like 2015 is going to be a better year there for the PS4.  There's also the fact that other markets have opened up and/or become bigger, making up for shortcomings in Japan.

- casual's complete abandonment thanks to mobile

While casuals helped push the PS2 to ~160M, they sure as hell didn't make up the majority of its audience.  It still would have sold 100M+ without them.  There's nothing that screams casual about the PS3, except maybe Move, but it still will reach 90M, even with great competition from 360 and, for the first few years of its life, the Wii (which took the vast majority of casuals.)  The PS4 is going to outperform the PS3. 

Stuff like that and some wishful thinking. Of course these are just assumptions based on observations outside the console industry and could be completely wrong.

If you go by these assumptions, the PS4 having a great first year means absolutely nothing and rather seems to confirm frontloaded behavior. So yeah, it's actually really easy to belive PS4 will not reach 100m with the right mindset^^





small44 said:

Ps3 and Xbox 360 was doing good before Sony and Microsoft decide to kill it by releasing ps4 and xb1 and keep both consoles expensive.

When you see the numbers of cross-gen games it's difficult to believe 3rd party want a shorter and i don't believe both constructors want to release a next gen without third party support.

Ps360 were saturated before ps4/x1 came. and 6 years is no short generation.



Materia-Blade said:
small44 said:

Ps3 and Xbox 360 was doing good before Sony and Microsoft decide to kill it by releasing ps4 and xb1 and keep both consoles expensive.

When you see the numbers of cross-gen games it's difficult to believe 3rd party want a shorter and i don't believe both constructors want to release a next gen without third party support.

Ps360 were saturated before ps4/x1 came. and 6 years is no short generation.

ps3 did 8 millions in 2013 it's not bad at all for the 6th years old console and ps3 price is expensive for a 6 years old consoles.

Without the releasing of ps4 and another price cut ps3 could have sell for 5 or 6 millions instead of 3.5 millions



PS4 - over 100 millions let's say 120m
Xbox One - 70m
Wii U - 25m

Vita - 15m if it will not get Final Fantasy Kingdoms Heart and Monster Hunter 20m otherwise
3DS - 80m

Around the Network
Materia-Blade said:

That won't happen unless they want to go bankrupt. 10 years is 4 years too long.

Except they're both bigger than Nintendo and if the people here have a lot of faith in Nintendo then it can only make sense that they'd be the least likely to go bankrupt ...



Mummelmann said:
thismeintiel said:

Yep, thinking ~115M-120M, myself.

@ OP

Personally, I don't see how people could think the PS4 can't make it to 100M.  Ever since the market grew with the PS1, no market leader has failed to make it to 100M+. The PS4 has also made it to 20M+ without a single PS big hitter.  No GT.  No GOW.  No Uncharted. No (possible) TLOU sequel.  Not to mention all the great new IPs Sony always launches each gen.  We got 2 just around the corner.

And it's done it without a WW price cut.  We still have a cut to $349 this year.  It could possibly be to $299, but if not, then it will be at $299 next year.  Then we have the PS4 Slim, which will come with either the $299 price cut or a $199/$249 one.  Speaking of a $199 price, sales should explode at that point, as long as it doesn't happen WAY late in the gen.  And considering Sony went with off the shelves parts, as well as a memory type that will still be falling in price, I wouldn't be too surprised if they are able to get it down to $99-$129 a year or so before they take it off of shelves.


No Nintendo handheld has sold worse than its predecessor either, look at the 3DS numbers.

I'm still not sold on the PS4 selling more than the Wii, this gen will be a lot shorter and price reductions won't have the same impact on a product that released for a 600$ retail price versus one that released at 400$; the great changes might come at around the 250$ mark in most cases but in the PS4's case; that might be a little too late, developing markets are not the same cushion any longer, they are following the trends of mature markets and moving towards more convenience gaming and fringe titles for more casual customers (Buzz, Singstar, Rock Band etc.) practically don't exist on the PS4 (or One) and those that do are not doing so hot.
Look at the PS3 as well; it is moving super slow compared to the PS2 in these markets and in the twilight of its life, at this rate it'll be lucky to sell 25 million after the PS4 released where the PS2 sold in excess of 50 million.

Of course; the PS2 was market leader and sold a lot more but there is no denying that developing markets account for a lot less cumulative sales; it's not like they're buying 360's or Wii's either...
The market has changed and the fast-paced consumer electronics market will be harsher to static devices such as the PS4, One and Wii U than it ever was to the Wii, PS3 and 360.
In the middle of the 7th gen, there was a splintering of the gaming industry and market and several forms of gaming took of in popularity, this is bound to hurt traditional devices in some way and I believe it is (again; look at the 3DS, not to mention the poor Vita).

GBA? 

This gen probably will be a little shorter, but some talk like we're going to be seeing announcements for new consoles in 2016.  Not happening.  Unless the company is completely desperate to get a jump on next gen.  I think the earliest we are going to get announcements is 2018.  Earliest I see Sony launching PS5 is 2019.  And even then, the PS4 will still be selling well and will continue to sell well when the new consoles hit.

So, I guess the price cuts to the $299 PS2 should have meant even less?  Also, the PS3 is still too expensive to have much impact in those developing nations.  At this point in its life, I think the PS2 was ~$99.  Unfortunately, because of the PS3's architecture, I doubt it will ever be $99, but I'm sure the PS4 will be, or at most $129.  We also don't have much info on if Sony is even pushing the PS3 as much as they did the PS2 in those countries.  My guess is no.



fatslob-:O said:
Materia-Blade said:

That won't happen unless they want to go bankrupt. 10 years is 4 years too long.

Except they're both bigger than Nintendo and if the people here have a lot of faith in Nintendo then it can only make sense that they'd be the least likely to go bankrupt ...

I meant bankrupt for the gaming divisions.



Game Boy Color was technically not the same as the original Game Boy, so while the two combined have sold more than the Advance; this is not the case when they're separated.



vivster said:

Not trying to jump the gun because of sub par January sales. Just a quick check what's the current average estimate here.

I'm still sticking with my sub 100m prediction that I had since launch, with only VR having the potential to bring back enough casuals to beat it. I know I'm in the minority with this.

I'm considering VR a non factor till we get price points and or public demos. Tech's expensise and doesn't look casual friendly right now. Not to mention VR isn't exactly new and has never pentrated anything but the hardcore market technical limitations nonwithstanding.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank