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Forums - Politics - Vaccination mediatic blitz

padib said:
hsrob said:
This is a recycled story from over 2 years ago.

"In June 2012, a local court in Rimini, Italy, ruled that the MMR vaccination had caused autism in a 15-month-old boy. The court relied heavily on the discredited Lancet paper and largely ignored the scientific evidence presented to it. The decision is under appeal"

"The MMR vaccine controversy centers on the 1998 publication of a fraudulent research paper in the medical journal The Lancet that lent support to the later discredited claim that colitis and autism spectrum disorders are linked to the combined measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine.[1] The media have been criticized for their naïve reporting and for lending undue credibility to the architect of the fraud, Andrew Wakefield.

Investigations by Sunday Times journalist Brian Deer reported that Andrew Wakefield, the author of the original research paper, had multiple undeclared conflicts of interest,[2][3] had manipulated evidence,[4] and had broken other ethical codes. The Lancet paper was partially retracted in 2004, and fully retracted in 2010, when The Lancet's editor-in-chief Richard Horton described it as "utterly false" and said that the journal had been "deceived."[5] Wakefield was found guilty by the General Medical Council of serious professional misconduct in May 2010 and was struck off the Medical Register, meaning he could no longer practice as a doctor in the UK.[6] In 2011, Deer provided further information on Wakefield's improper research practices to the British medical journal, BMJ, which in a signed editorial described the original paper as fraudulent.[7][8] The scientific consensus is that no evidence links the MMR vaccine to the development of autism, and that this vaccine's benefits greatly outweigh its risks."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

To those sighting anecdotal experience, I can to. My brother is autistic and never had a vaccination of any kind. I never had a vaccine either and got, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox but had to get admitted to an ICU due to complications (encephalitis) of chicken pox. Good thing I avoided those nasty vaccines though.

In all seriousness though, PDD, ASD, GDD or any other acronym you feel like throwing around represent a range of disorders that due to their very nature are not apparent from birth and only start to manifest months to years later which spans the same period of time when childhood vaccination usually takes place. I'm not saying that vaccinations are perfect or never have adverse effects but utilising anecdotal reports and fear-mongering to discourage people from vaccinating their kids DIRECTLY causes harm.

Vaccination has been so effective for so long that people forget that these diseases used to kill many, many children. For a final anecdote, 4 of my mother's siblings died from vaccine preventable illness.

I'm not saying I will stick to my point of view, I'm glad people are bringing up counter-arguments. If I am wrong then I'll be happy to be shown why. Don't say people like throwing things around it's disingenuous.

The Italy ruling was from Sept 2014 though, the article dated Feb 2015.

Yet the original decision was based largely on the initial fraudulent research.  They also site the interaction with his particular genetic mutation, I'm curious what that might be and whether that alone might explain his reaction to the vaccine.

Again, not stating that there are no adverse reactions to vaccines, there are, I've seen them first hand, but a single court decision still does nothing to counteract the existing weight of evidence, there's no new data presented here.

You have pitched this as a 'think twice before vaccinating your kids" piece, rather than what it is, a single unfortunate case where a court has ruled that a young child has probably had an unfortunate reaction to a vaccine.



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starcraft said:
Can every body in this thread please keep cool heads and be polite to each other.


Sorry. I usually don't get that harsh/bitter. I haven't been this passionate/one-sided over a political subject in a VERY long time and I've forgotten how to do it respectfully. :P



padib said:
DerNebel said:
You can not be serious...

It's ridiculous honestly.

92 cases of measles, and it's an outbreak.

If the bill passes, californian parents will not have the right to refuse vaccination if they believe the vaccine may contain harmful ingredients that are being hidden from them.

Of course if you open up your border to mexico and allow millions of second/third world kids in there is going to be problems.

Sad that the left can not see something that is staring them so blatantly in the face and instead decides to go the totalitarian fascism route.Problem-reaction-solution.



starcraft said:
Can every body in this thread please keep cool heads and be polite to each other.

And anti-vaxxers, I have no intention of banning people because they agree with the overwhelming and crushing weight of science. So unless they are actually flaming or trolling in some way, please stop reporting them.

Point taken; I was perhaps overly forceful, as this is an issue that is quite personal to me.

I would love to hear the reports wanting people banned for being pro-vax though. Were they just tagged "flaming" or "trolling", or did they actually ask for a ban based on ideology? Obviously I understand if you can't answer, I'm just intrigued.



Nettles said:
padib said:
DerNebel said:
You can not be serious...

It's ridiculous honestly.

92 cases of measles, and it's an outbreak.

If the bill passes, californian parents will not have the right to refuse vaccination if they believe the vaccine may contain harmful ingredients that are being hidden from them.

Of course if you open up your border to mexico and allow millions of second/third world kids in there is going to be problems.

Sad that the left can not see something that is staring them so blatantly in the face and instead decides to go the totalitarian fascism route.Problem-reaction-solution.

Shhhhh.... that's just a conspiracy theory. *puts tinfoil hat on* 



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padib said:
hsrob said:

Yet the original decision was based largely on the initial fraudulent research.  They also site the interaction with his particular genetic mutation, I'm curious what that might be and whether that alone might explain his reaction to the vaccine.

Again, not stating that there are no adverse reactions to vaccines, there are, I've seen them first hand, but a single court decision still does nothing to counteract the existing weight of evidence, there's no new data presented here.

You have pitched this as a 'think twice before vaccinating your kids" piece, rather than what it is, a single unfortunate case where a court has ruled that a young child has probably had an unfortunate reaction to a vaccine.

I meant to pitch it more as a "Be attentive to what the media is bombarding you with", and also pointed out to the mad amount of money that pharmaceuticals are reaping from this mediatic blitz.

Here's the funny part though; the pharmaceutical companies would actually make more money if nobody vaccinated; it's a lot more profitable to treat a chronically ill population than to just immunize everyone. Unfortunately for them, the genie's out of the bottle, so if they don't make and sell the vaccines, someone else will, and they still wouldn't get to profit off a society crippled by endemic illness.



padib said:
starcraft said:

Fortunately, there is - and many have provided this proof already in this thread

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

I particularly suggest you watch this youtube clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65l1YAVaYc

I've read the link. Studies don't make it irrefutable. Question though, what do you do with the reported 5 cases of autism in the confidential GlaxoSmithKline report (the image I posted)?

*continues to watch youtube video*

Based on what I've seen of the report, I would assume it's more to do with the fact they've recorded all the medical issues children who have had the vaccine have had (related or otherwise). The table that's taken from lists a ridiculous number of medical issues including completely unrelated conditions that are purely genetic disorders.

It's more an exercise in data probably used to see if there's any correlation between side effects and existing conditions rather than a table purely citing side effects. It's completely taken out of context.



padib said:
curl-6 said:

Here's the funny part though; the pharmaceutical companies would actually make more money if nobody vaccinated; it's a lot more profitable to treat a chronically ill population than to just immunize everyone. Unfortunately for them, the genie's out of the bottle, so if they don't make and sell the vaccines, someone else will, and they still wouldn't get to profit off a society crippled by endemic illness.

With the risk of talking grim, wouldn't selling medicine to less people (after deaths) lead to less sales?

Less customers overall, yes. But instead of just getting to immunise each customer, which is quite cheap, you'd get to sell them antibiotics, anti-virals, and some medications in perpetuity. 



padib said:
hsrob said:

Yet the original decision was based largely on the initial fraudulent research.  They also site the interaction with his particular genetic mutation, I'm curious what that might be and whether that alone might explain his reaction to the vaccine.

Again, not stating that there are no adverse reactions to vaccines, there are, I've seen them first hand, but a single court decision still does nothing to counteract the existing weight of evidence, there's no new data presented here.

You have pitched this as a 'think twice before vaccinating your kids" piece, rather than what it is, a single unfortunate case where a court has ruled that a young child has probably had an unfortunate reaction to a vaccine.

I meant to pitch it more as a "Be attentive to what the media is bombarding you with", and also pointed out to the mad amount of money that pharmaceuticals are reaping from this mediatic blitz.

If a vaccine is legit, I'll disregard the manipulation and swallow the pill regardless. I'm anti-vaxx upto a point. My concern was mostly how things are being shoved down people's throats in terms of coverage and news pieces, and I still think that despite the excellent arguments being brought up in this thread against the concern, the issue of mediatic manipulation is still real.

than just do the realy important vaccinations and try to not get the 6X vaccines. 



curl-6 said:
starcraft said:
Can every body in this thread please keep cool heads and be polite to each other.

And anti-vaxxers, I have no intention of banning people because they agree with the overwhelming and crushing weight of science. So unless they are actually flaming or trolling in some way, please stop reporting them.

Point taken; I was perhaps overly forceful, as this is an issue that is quite personal to me.

I would love to hear the reports wanting people banned for being pro-vax though. Were they just tagged "flaming" or "trolling", or did they actually ask for a ban based on ideology? Obviously I understand if you can't answer, I'm just intrigued.

Tempting as that is, no.

Reports are confidential for a reason - people need to feel comfortable reporting things knowing that it wont blow back in their face. I won't violate that because I happen to disagree with their ideology.

In a general sense yes, there has been some 'flaming/trolling' type comment.



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