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Forums - Nintendo - Absorbing Wii U architecture?

teigaga said:
"When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

Isn't this in referal to the their next handheld?

Maybe they intend to the support the Wii U for longer then many of us expected.

Unless they plan to effectively re-launch the Wii U, i don't see that happening. Quite possible to make a fresh start with a new device in this industry, repackaging the old is difficult. Sony managed it with the PS3, but that was with the entire third party apparatus doing the heavy lifting for them.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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walsufnir said:
Marcusius said:

Look more they are planning to do something similar like the FAT- PS3, having 2 cpu in one console for 100% backward compatibility.


That would be too expensive, I guess. They could of course make the 3-cores be a part of the system to serve for helping the system in special tasks. That would mean the GPU is fully backwards compatible and the memory architecture is fast enough to "emulate" the esram used in WiiU. 



the gpu shouldnt be a problem and eSram with x86 is possible and not the worst road. changing the arm for the wiiu mainprocessor is a clever way to get BC relativy cheap. but if they go with fully x86(and a small arm) emulation shouldnt be such a big problem if nintendo makes it.

Mr Khan said:
teigaga said:
"When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

Isn't this in referal to the their next handheld?

Maybe they intend to the support the Wii U for longer then many of us expected.

Unless they plan to effectively re-launch the Wii U, i don't see that happening. Quite possible to make a fresh start with a new device in this industry, repackaging the old is difficult. Sony managed it with the PS3, but that was with the entire third party apparatus doing the heavy lifting for them.

A new system in 2017 will make alot of sense and is what I'm hoping for but this statement reads different. If we presume they are talking about Nintendo's next home console what relevance is Wii U's architecture in allowing handheld and homeconsoles to become "like brothers"? THe Wii U and 3DS aren't like brothers.



zorg1000 said:

At an investor meeting last year, Iwata said this:

"In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

What exactly does he mean by "absorb" Wii U architecture and how does one do that without using the same architecture as Wii U?

Likely means either, usingg a similar compatible architecture, or being able to emulate it. Another option would-beTo use a compatibility layer API, kind of like WINE for Linux and Mac. 





Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

generic-user-1 said:
walsufnir said:


That would be too expensive, I guess. They could of course make the 3-cores be a part of the system to serve for helping the system in special tasks. That would mean the GPU is fully backwards compatible and the memory architecture is fast enough to "emulate" the esram used in WiiU. 



the gpu shouldnt be a problem and eSram with x86 is possible and not the worst road. changing the arm for the wiiu mainprocessor is a clever way to get BC relativy cheap. but if they go with fully x86(and a small arm) emulation shouldnt be such a big problem if nintendo makes it.


You can use esram wherever you want but it has to fit into the system somewhere. You can't just connect everything with everything :) Perhaps they try to "emulate" the esram with a different memory architecture that could well act as esram and can be used like main ram when not running in compatible mode.

As to emulation: This is a hard road to walk, as it takes a lot of effort to make it 

1. compatible

2. and in the same time fast enough.

Of course Nintendo knows how their hardware works but emulation in general needs way more performance than the system you want to emulate. What they could do is something that MS did: Do it on a per game basis so that a "general" emulator wouldn't be necessary but then again this also means a lot of work for Nintendo but could save a good amount of cycles.



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geez.. so instead of re-releasing those game for the next generation they are willing to have backward compatabilty so we won't have to buy those games again... way too nice Nintendo.. way too nice..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

I'm thinking they're thinking of ways to add Wii U backwards compatibility but their next system will be a different architecture. It shouldn't be hard to add the ppc chip and emulate the ram for Wii U usage?



zorg1000 said: What exactly does he mean by "absorb" Wii U architecture and how does one do that without using the same architecture as Wii U?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a common way for backwards compatibility to happen for a console is for the console itself to contain last gen's hardware in addition to the new console's hardware. Considering that the gamepad flopped I doubt that the next Nintendo console will use it, but that doesn't mean that they can't use the PPC hardware in the console itself as well as x86 for the newer side of the console.

Consider that the gamepad current costs them around $100 to manufacture and the Wii U itself around $175ish. Two years down the road, costs will most likely drop, particularly since they already have all the dyes and manufacturing in place. If it only costs Nintendo around $75 to produce Wii U hardware and they integrate that into a machine that with x86 and figure out a way for PPC and x86 to talk to one another easily, I don't really see the issue. It would just basically be like two machines in one shell.

Think of it like this, your PC and your printer are two different machines, but your PC tells your printer to print and your printer tells your PC that its done. All that is done with software so that they can communicate and understand eachother. 

I think this could be done. Would it be easy? No. Would it be good for Nintendo moving forward? Hell yes. Think of everyone who owns a XBONE or PS4 right now who's hearing/seeing all the excellent games for the Wii U, but just doesn't want to bite. Nintendo releasing a console in 2017 with an entire library of games already out that they didnt get to experience, in addition to a whole new generations library, could be quite appealing to a lot of consumers. People will start looking for something new in 2 years time, if Nintendo gives them a non-dated option that has a ton of exclusives unlike the competition(PS4/XBONE have pretty much the same games atm), Nintendo could clean up quite handily.



“What I say is, a town isn't a town without a bookstore. It may call itself a town, but unless it's got a bookstore it knows it's not fooling a soul.”  - Neil Gaiman

walsufnir said:
generic-user-1 said:


the gpu shouldnt be a problem and eSram with x86 is possible and not the worst road. changing the arm for the wiiu mainprocessor is a clever way to get BC relativy cheap. but if they go with fully x86(and a small arm) emulation shouldnt be such a big problem if nintendo makes it.


You can use esram wherever you want but it has to fit into the system somewhere. You can't just connect everything with everything :) Perhaps they try to "emulate" the esram with a different memory architecture that could well act as esram and can be used like main ram when not running in compatible mode.

As to emulation: This is a hard road to walk, as it takes a lot of effort to make it 

1. compatible

2. and in the same time fast enough.

Of course Nintendo knows how their hardware works but emulation in general needs way more performance than the system you want to emulate. What they could do is something that MS did: Do it on a per game basis so that a "general" emulator wouldn't be necessary but then again this also means a lot of work for Nintendo but could save a good amount of cycles.


i think eSram isnt that bad and fits well in x86 systems, why shouldnt they stay with esram?  and yes, you need a lot more power to emulate, but if they can work around some of the problems if they try. but maybe they go full arm. 2019 isnt next year...



Recycle001 said:
zorg1000 said: What exactly does he mean by "absorb" Wii U architecture and how does one do that without using the same architecture as Wii U?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a common way for backwards compatibility to happen for a console is for the console itself to contain last gen's hardware in addition to the new console's hardware. Considering that the gamepad flopped I doubt that the next Nintendo console will use it, but that doesn't mean that they can't use the PPC hardware in the console itself as well as x86 for the newer side of the console.

Consider that the gamepad current costs them around $100 to manufacture and the Wii U itself around $175ish. Two years down the road, costs will most likely drop, particularly since they already have all the dyes and manufacturing in place. If it only costs Nintendo around $75 to produce Wii U hardware and they integrate that into a machine that with x86 and figure out a way for PPC and x86 to talk to one another easily, I don't really see the issue. It would just basically be like two machines in one shell.

Think of it like this, your PC and your printer are two different machines, but your PC tells your printer to print and your printer tells your PC that its done. All that is done with software so that they can communicate and understand eachother. 

I think this could be done. Would it be easy? No. Would it be good for Nintendo moving forward? Hell yes. Think of everyone who owns a XBONE or PS4 right now who's hearing/seeing all the excellent games for the Wii U, but just doesn't want to bite. Nintendo releasing a console in 2017 with an entire library of games already out that they didnt get to experience, in addition to a whole new generations library, could be quite appealing to a lot of consumers. People will start looking for something new in 2 years time, if Nintendo gives them a non-dated option that has a ton of exclusives unlike the competition(PS4/XBONE have pretty much the same games atm), Nintendo could clean up quite handily.


Ya but to my knowledge, backwards compatibility isn't what he's talking about. They will absorb the Wii U architecture into the their next handheld and console in order to increase software output by making it easier to share development and port games from one device to another.



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