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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Enthusiats: No Mr. Adelman, You’re Wrong About Nintendo’s Third-Party Situation

Soundwave on 02 February 2015
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

They had no reason to want to release games on it in the first place. The console was loser proposition and it didn't take a rocket scientist to predict how it would go. 

Even if it took off with casuals and sold well under that scenario, in what way does that appeal to the maker of Grand Theft Auto? There's no audience over lap. 

PS3/360 owners (the ones who buy all the "core" third party content) weren't going to buy another similar console 5 years too late. 

Honestly Nintendo is lucky they got COD and AC (two of three biggest third party IP on the market) and an entirely exclusive Ubi Soft FPS, they probably didn't deserve even that. 

Sales and demographics do factor into the equation here. Why should a third party support a platform with 0 userbase versus two others with 80 million users? Aside from a console offering a generational leap and thus ushering in a new generation of consumers (which the Wii U does not), there was no appeal. 

Soundwave u really seem to want to argue about something we agree on, I already told u that I agree Nintendo did not make a console with 3rd parties in mind and I never said they should have gone all out on supporting it. But for the 4th time I have to say this to u, what u are saying has absolutely nothing to do with my original point, I'm starting to wonder why u even quoted me to begin with.

My original post that u quoted was stating that oniyide was wrong, he said 3rd parties stopped supporting Wii U because their games weren't selling well. I simply pointed out that most 3rd parties gave little to no support to begin with, sales of their games did not have an impact on support since they it never existed in the first place.

U are simply ignoring what I'm saying, 3rd parties did not abandon Wii U because of sales, they abandoned it because it was not a console that fit their personal needs.

Activision, Ubi Soft, EA, Warner, Capcom did support the system at launch and chose not to support it further, presumably because sales weren't great or they didn't see much point in continuing. 

I suspect Sega will now also bail out because the two Sonic games sold like crap on Wii U. 

Just because some third parties did not show up doesn't mean they all didn't. There was a fair bit of support upfront as the Wii U had 4 or 5 of the top third party franchises, the only one they really didn't have was Grand Theft Auto, and there wasn't a new GTA game to release in fall 2012 and Rockstar never has supported Nintendo from a demographic POV.  

Grand Theft Auto

Call of Duty

Assassin's Creed 

NBA 2K

Madden NFL

FIFA

Batman Arkham

Are the top third party IP as of 2012, Wii U got all of those except GTA, which didn't have a new franchise release for 2012 and they got Zombi U, a Ubi Soft FPS exclusive. 



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Mr.GameCrazy on 03 February 2015
oniyide said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:


Ubisoft even delayed the Wii U version of Rayman Legends (originally an exclusive) for a year just to get the game ported to the other systems.

thats not true it was delayed initially cause it wasnt ready. THEN they delayed to reach on time with the others. Funny enough not only did the PS3 version do better but the LATER PS4 did better, so whats your excuse for that?

Oh. Thanks for correcting me. I had no idea it was initially delayed because it wasn't ready yet.

 

About the PS3 and PS4, I got nothing.



zorg1000 on 03 February 2015
oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:

Again most of that is irrelevant, like I said u are correct that Nintendo did not make a console with 3rd parties in mind, but that does not change the fact that oniyides claim is incorrect.

If 3rd parties supported Wii U then we would have seen 3rd party releases in the post launch as well. Where was Metal Gear Rising, Dead Island, Bioshock, Colonial Marines, Devil May Cry, Saints Row, Grand Theft Auto, Metro, Tomb Raider, Dead Space, XCOM? These were all 3rd party games that released during Wii U's first year that were never planned to release on Wii U. Sales were not the reason Wii U didn't get these games like Oniyide claimed.


so because Wii U didnt get THOSE games you claim that it got no support? No thats not how it works. Just because it didnt get the games YOU wanted doesnt mean it didnt get games. that is factual wrong. And outside of TR and DS none of those games were on a Ninty console prior so you and I know they were never coming.

Its funny its not like the Wii got that much great launch games either. It was the same for hte most part ports of last gen games and if they werent ports they were crap versions (looking at you Dead Rising and Tomb Raider) but no one cared because Wii was winning.

I didn't say I wanted those games, but it's just a fact that Wii U got a tiny fraction of 3rd party games that released in its first year. Wii U had decent day 1 3rd party support but clearly none of them had any long term goals with Wii U otherwise they would have had games planned beyond day 1.

Game development takes more than a few months, if 3rd parties ever had any plans to support Wii U beyond day 1 then games would have been in development for it, to my knowledge pretty much none of the major 3rd party games of 2013 outside of a few in the final months were ever planned to release on Wii U meaning that the majority of 3rd parties never had any intention of releasing their games on it.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 on 03 February 2015
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

Soundwave u really seem to want to argue about something we agree on, I already told u that I agree Nintendo did not make a console with 3rd parties in mind and I never said they should have gone all out on supporting it. But for the 4th time I have to say this to u, what u are saying has absolutely nothing to do with my original point, I'm starting to wonder why u even quoted me to begin with.

My original post that u quoted was stating that oniyide was wrong, he said 3rd parties stopped supporting Wii U because their games weren't selling well. I simply pointed out that most 3rd parties gave little to no support to begin with, sales of their games did not have an impact on support since they it never existed in the first place.

U are simply ignoring what I'm saying, 3rd parties did not abandon Wii U because of sales, they abandoned it because it was not a console that fit their personal needs.

Activision, Ubi Soft, EA, Warner, Capcom did support the system at launch and chose not to support it further, presumably because sales weren't great or they didn't see much point in continuing. 

I suspect Sega will now also bail out because the two Sonic games sold like crap on Wii U. 

Just because some third parties did not show up doesn't mean they all didn't. There was a fair bit of support upfront as the Wii U had 4 or 5 of the top third party franchises, the only one they really didn't have was Grand Theft Auto, and there wasn't a new GTA game to release in fall 2012 and Rockstar never has supported Nintendo from a demographic POV.  

Grand Theft Auto

Call of Duty

Assassin's Creed 

NBA 2K

Madden NFL

FIFA

Batman Arkham

Are the top third party IP as of 2012, Wii U got all of those except GTA, which didn't have a new franchise release for 2012 and they got Zombi U, a Ubi Soft FPS exclusive. 

That's the thing u don't seem to understand is that a console doesn't sell because of the top 5-6 biggest games. Consoles like 360, PS3, XB1, PS4 sold/sell so well because of a constant stream of games on a weekly or bi-weekly rate. If XB1/PS4 only recieved a small fraction of major 3rd party titles then they would be selling significantly worse.

EA announced they would stop supporting Wii U in very early 2013, they gave it like 3 months total before axing support. What did Activision release between holiday 2012 & holiday 2013? Amazing Spider-Man which sold like shit on all consoles. Ubisoft delayed a completed game by 6  months so they could make it multiplat. Sega cancelled Colonial Marines just weeks before release. Capcom released Monster Hunter 3 for the third time in 3 years, who didn't have it by then?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

oniyide on 04 February 2015
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:


so because Wii U didnt get THOSE games you claim that it got no support? No thats not how it works. Just because it didnt get the games YOU wanted doesnt mean it didnt get games. that is factual wrong. And outside of TR and DS none of those games were on a Ninty console prior so you and I know they were never coming.

Its funny its not like the Wii got that much great launch games either. It was the same for hte most part ports of last gen games and if they werent ports they were crap versions (looking at you Dead Rising and Tomb Raider) but no one cared because Wii was winning.

I didn't say I wanted those games, but it's just a fact that Wii U got a tiny fraction of 3rd party games that released in its first year. Wii U had decent day 1 3rd party support but clearly none of them had any long term goals with Wii U otherwise they would have had games planned beyond day 1.

Game development takes more than a few months, if 3rd parties ever had any plans to support Wii U beyond day 1 then games would have been in development for it, to my knowledge pretty much none of the major 3rd party games of 2013 outside of a few in the final months were ever planned to release on Wii U meaning that the majority of 3rd parties never had any intention of releasing their games on it.

why would they need to have plans beyond day 1? the smart thing to do was put their games on the system see what happens then move on, and then make plans. ANd please it was beyond day one. Wii U still got a COD and AC game the next year. IMHO it probably shouldnt have gotten COD.



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zorg1000 on 04 February 2015
oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:

I didn't say I wanted those games, but it's just a fact that Wii U got a tiny fraction of 3rd party games that released in its first year. Wii U had decent day 1 3rd party support but clearly none of them had any long term goals with Wii U otherwise they would have had games planned beyond day 1.

Game development takes more than a few months, if 3rd parties ever had any plans to support Wii U beyond day 1 then games would have been in development for it, to my knowledge pretty much none of the major 3rd party games of 2013 outside of a few in the final months were ever planned to release on Wii U meaning that the majority of 3rd parties never had any intention of releasing their games on it.

why would they need to have plans beyond day 1? the smart thing to do was put their games on the system see what happens then move on, and then make plans. ANd please it was beyond day one. Wii U still got a COD and AC game the next year. IMHO it probably shouldnt have gotten COD.

Do u not realize games take more than a few months to make? If u wait to see how launch games sell then u basically aren't releasing anything for a year or more unless it's a late/gimped port, which is essentially all Wii U has gotten from 3rd parties outside a few exceptions.

Yes Wii U got COD, AC, Batman for holiday 2013 but like I already said, it got close to nothing between holiday 2012 & holiday 2013. Outside of a few publishers, 3rd parties never had any intention of supporting Wii U.

Like I already said to soundwave, Nintendo is largely to blame for lack of 3rd party support due to not making the hardware they wanted but sales were not the reason for lack of support because most gave little to no support from the beginning. 90%+ of big 3rd party releases in 2013 skipped Wii U, they would have had to been in development already if these 3rd parties ever had any intention of supporting Wii U, they weren't which means most 3rd parties chose not to support Wii U long before sales became an issue.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

MikeRox on 04 February 2015

Just like the Dreamcast had suffered from previously, Nintendo also had a legacy of poor 3rd party sales on "mainstream core franchises" though. So a fair few publishing decisions would have been based on how those sorts of games sold on the GameCube and Wii.

The reason EA didn't support the Dreamcast wasn't because they thought the Dreamcast was a bad idea (rumours actually point towards EA rethinking their decision in late 2000 before SEGA pulled the plug in Jan 2001), it was due to the appalling sales of their software on Sega Saturn and SEGA not bowing to their threats with regards to not releasing competition in the US particularly to Madden with the 2K sports games.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.