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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Enthusiats: No Mr. Adelman, You’re Wrong About Nintendo’s Third-Party Situation

Soundwave on 27 January 2015
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

Do you actually think Nintendo would do any of that? I doubt it. Nintendo's shown they have zero interest in this. Adelman's insightful comments about Nintendo's internal structure in Japan also indicates why this would never happen, too many old farts on their board of directors would staunchly oppose such moves. Nintendo's had amply oppurtunity to expand into the West, they simpy don't want to, in fact if they did it would be a threat to many on Nintendo's Japanese board of directors (what happens if the US division gets too strong? What happens if like Rare they start making games that begin to outshine the Japanese games?). 

Yamauchi could cut through all that political BS, but Iwata can't. He has to play ball with the board. 


I never said that they would do that. I said that that's what they must do if they want to get third parties without bribing them. They need to cultivate that ecosystem internally before they can ever expect improvement externally. They need to redefine what it means to be a Nintendo fan.

Well I think we all know they're never going to do that. It's just not in their internal makeup and runs contrary to a lot of their internal principals. 

Even if they did, it's probably far too late in the game now. Sony and MS are too entrenched, Nintendo playing "me too, come play our GTA knockoff" at this point would just look like a third wheel.

There isn't really a good option for them right now to be honest, other than to hope maybe one of their internal studios can hit gold with a new Pokemon and having a cheap/profitable line of hardware next cycle. 



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ktay95 on 27 January 2015
Lawlight said:
Does the author really believe that the likes of Rockstar doesn't want to put GTAV on the WiiU because they are intimidated by Nintendo's first party titles? Or that's the reason Ubisoft didn't release Far Cry 4 on the WiiU?

Also, Nintendo is the savior of gaming? Since when?

"Unlike Nintendo, though, neither Microsoft or Sony use their own IPs very regularly. For the most part, it’s the third-party titles that keep the two console spaces afloat."

Someone who send him links to sales numbers for Sony's and MS's franchises sales.

Yeah the reason these games arent on Nintendo must be money obviously, the writer himself clearly said thats what the devs of today want. So WiiU musnt be profitable for 3rd parties.

Oh and the whole MS and Sony not using their IPs -_-

Sony Published PS3 games (not all are owned IPs but we get the idea)

 

God damn that 2013,  10 physical 1st Party Games (Im combining Wonderbook). Definiteley not using their IPs Sony, step it up =P





Soundwave on 27 January 2015

Third parties sold great on the NES and SNES, even the N64 had a few million selling third party titles.

It's when MS moves into the business and third parties and consumers now had the choice of Nintendo's more family-friendly ecosystem or two more teenager-market driven platforms, they opted to go with Sony/MS as it suited most of their core IP better. Sony and MS also market far better.

If MS had stayed out of the business Nintendo would probably still today be getting decent/good third party support basically by default, but with Sony *and* MS as viable options, third parties just don't need Nintendo, two's company, three's a crowd.

It's actually kind of a shame MS entered the business because really (and I like MS fine as a company), they don't need the money, the game business is just peanuts for them. Nintendo needs it badly and as mind-numbingly stubborn and out of touch as they can be, it is kind of a shame to see them basically locked out of the console market they basically built. 



Frogger on 27 January 2015
Soundwave said:

Well I think we all know they're never going to do that. It's just not in their internal makeup and runs contrary to a lot of their internal principals. 

Even if they did, it's probably far too late in the game now. Sony and MS are too entrenched, Nintendo playing "me too, come play our GTA knockoff" at this point would just look like a third wheel.

There isn't really a good option for them right now to be honest, other than to hope maybe one of their internal studios can hit gold with a new Pokemon and having a cheap/profitable line of hardware next cycle. 


I wouldn't say never, but I do agree that it's unlikely.

It's too late for the Wii U, but not at all too late for Nintendo as a brand. Nintendo would have a hit if they released their next console with what I said. It doesn't matter if it looks like a third wheel. It would sell. Destiny, in concept, is just a Halo/Borderlands mash up, but it became the fastest selling new IP of all time.

It would be the same with Nintendo. They make AAA western games, market them well, and they'd sell. It's not complicated, but it's something Nintendo hasn't done since Goldeneye.

More cheap hardware will only make them lose more of their audience. There is no more "blue ocean." 



oniyide on 27 January 2015
method114 said:
bunchanumbers said:
Good read but I disagree with Adelman. I think the course Nintendo is taking is actually a solid route. Their focus on the indie scene has brought more developers to the Nintendo fold and some developers are actually seeking out Nintendo for their games. Since indie games are the biggest source of new creativity in gaming it means that Nintendo systems are on the forefront of a interesting situation.

Yes it is a loss to not have the big AAA franchises on their system, but overall it isn't really missing much. Nintendo and the indies do offer so much that it makes it hard to really miss them.


I disagree I think missing AAA francises is a huge loss. I can say for a fact that I would have got a nintendo system if they would make a system that could compete with PS4 and X1. They already have a great first party line up and always release quality games. Now you add all the great third party games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Witcher and it's just an obvious choice for best console.

Sony wins simply because they have third party support. Add to that there first party line up which is not as good but they constantly try new IP's which is always nice.


pretty much this. Anyone who can sit there and really think that what the indies are putting out are going ot take the place of something like GTA is lying to themselves. 

Hell Its not like Ninty is even in a great postion with indies. Sony and MS are both better iin that area as well.



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Soundwave on 27 January 2015
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

Well I think we all know they're never going to do that. It's just not in their internal makeup and runs contrary to a lot of their internal principals. 

Even if they did, it's probably far too late in the game now. Sony and MS are too entrenched, Nintendo playing "me too, come play our GTA knockoff" at this point would just look like a third wheel.

There isn't really a good option for them right now to be honest, other than to hope maybe one of their internal studios can hit gold with a new Pokemon and having a cheap/profitable line of hardware next cycle. 


I wouldn't say never, but I do agree that it's unlikely.

It's too late for the Wii U, but not at all too late for Nintendo as a brand. Nintendo would have a hit if they released their next console with what I said. It doesn't matter if it looks like a third wheel. It would sell. Destiny, in concept, is just a Halo/Borderlands mash up, but it became the fastest selling new IP of all time.

It would be the same with Nintendo. They make AAA western games, market them well, and they'd sell. It's not complicated, but it's something Nintendo hasn't done since Goldeneye.

More cheap hardware will only make them lose more of their audience. There is no more "blue ocean." 


Destiny is a game with a $100 million dollar budget and a monstrous marketing campaign behind it. For every Destiny there's plenty of "me too" shooters that end up being no where near as successful. 

I agree Nintendo will lose some of their audience, but at this point it's inevitable because of the rise of smart devices. Their priority now is likely to squeeze as much profit from the next-cycle as they can. 

Who knows too, I mean the sales pitch of a $300 Nintendo console to a PS/XBox owner is likely unappealling, but y'know maybe you can tempt them better with a $150 microconsole (after a price drop) that plays Mario Kart 9, Pokemon (the real Pokemon games), Mario Galaxy 3, Mario Maker, Virtual Console, and Monster Hunter 5 on their big screen TV, and y'know maybe, just maybe Nintendo can convince a few extra folkes to buy one as a secondary device. 

I'm not saying it would be a huge success in that way, but if they can sell 55 million of the handheld variant and even just 15 million of the home version, that's still 70 million users ... should be enough to make some good money off of as long as the hardware is not making a loss for them. 

GoldenEye is a lifetime ago too now, and really it was kind of an inadvertant fluke (Nintendo barely marketed it at all it was all word of mouth). It was supposed to be just a throw-away filler title for the N64. Nintendo really has never understood the audience for more violent type games, I think by the time Conker rolled around, they had a identity crisis going on about what type of company they wanted to be, and the GameCube being cute and purple basically won out (the Japanese side put their foot down in other words). 



oniyide on 27 January 2015
sundin13 said:
Mr Khan said:

See, i don't follow any of that field.

"Citizens of Earth" is a good example, though. That feels like it could have been a full-price game with a few changes. Things like that.


So you are basically suggesting that Nintendo pays these devs to make their games bigger instead of just paying them to work on the console? (Because Citizens of Earth is already on Wii U)

Overall, I'm not sure how well that would work. Many of these devs have not shown an ability to manage money or large scale projects and their strength is typically in making small, tight games based on novel mechanics (the games that work anyways)

its also multiplatform and has been released on Sony systems. SO we are right back to square one like 3rd parties. That game isnt doing anything for Ninty when its available on MUCH more popular systems anyway



Frogger on 27 January 2015
Soundwave said:

Destiny is a game with a $100 million dollar budget and a monstrous marketing campaign behind it. For every Destiny there's plenty of "me too" shooters that end up being no where near as successful. 

I agree Nintendo will lose some of their audience, but at this point it's inevitable because of the rise of smart devices. Their priority now is likely to squeeze as much profit from the next-cycle as they can. 

Who knows too, I mean the sales pitch of a $300 Nintendo console to a PS/XBox owner is likely unappealling, but y'know maybe you tempt with a $150 microconsole (after a price drop) that plays Mario Kart 9, Pokemon (the real Pokemon games), Mario Galaxy 3, and Monster Hunter 5 on my big screen TV, and y'know maybe, just maybe Nintendo can convince a few extra folkes to buy one as a secondary device. 

GoldenEye is a lifetime ago too now, and really it was kind of an inadvertant fluke (Nintendo barely marketed it at first). It was supposed to be just a throw-away filler title for the N64. 

And none of those "me too" shooters are first party console shooters. They don't have the chance that a Nintendo developed AAA shooter would.

It's not inevitable. Core Nintendo fans aren't moving to smart phones. They're moving to other consoles and PCs. Their priority next gen is to lay the foundation for an eternal Nintendo platform.

The sales pitch of a $300 Nintendo console to a PS/XBox owner is not unappealling. The sales pitch of a $300 Nintendo console with no appealing games to a PS/XBox owner is unappealling. As long as Nintendo tries selling Mario to an Uncharted fan, they're doomed to not sell anything to them. A weaker, cheaper, Nintendo console will never get someone who was never interested in those games to buy it. A stronger, more modern console with the types of games they're playing on the systems they own, as well as games they never thought about trying, would.

There will alway be Playstation fans, Xbox fans, and Nintendo fans who will never abandon their favorite consoles, but there is currently an audience of like 60m XB/PS owners who don't care either way. They're indipendents, and they just want the "best" console. They migrated to the 360 last gen from the PS2 the gen before, and now some of them split again back to the PS4. That is the untapped market Nintendo needs to go for.

It doesn't matter if it was inadvertant. It was not a fluke and it's proof of the power of a mass market western title on a Nintendo console. That is even more important now when western games are frankly much more powerful, from a sales perspective, than japanese games. That was just one game. If nintendo had 5-6 "Goldeneyes" on their next console, it would be a home run.



Soundwave on 27 January 2015

Low power may actually help Nintendo a bit with third parties (just don't expect miracles).

If you have a handheld roughly about a Wii U (maybe with a more modern lighting/shader structure) and a home equivalent that's 2-3x that and can run the same games fairly easily at an eye-pleasing 1080p ...

A few devs may opt to support it for certain projects rather than making say a PS4 or PS5 game that could bankrupt their company if it doesn't sell well enough.

Also there could be appeal in a developer only having to make (basically) one version of a game and it can now cover both the Nintendo handheld and home market. If I'm EA maybe I do consider bringing back say FIFA and Star Wars, whereas right now I wouldn't consider either for Wii U (6-7 million-ish users just isn't enough).

Sony/MS aren't going to be shaking in their boots about that, and they don't really have to, but such a scenario could be an OK improvement over where Nintendo is now, where their console is almost down to nill for retail third party support and their handheld doesn't get a sniff from most Western devs. 



NightDragon83 on 27 January 2015
Slarvax said:
RolStoppable said:
NiKKoM said:
Strange article.. So instead of having the best first party games together with good third party games the writer doesn't want that? He thinks everything is fine like this? Nintendo is clearly not big enough to keep pumping first party games on a regular level to maintain interest from the general public.. Why wouldn't you want third party games to fill up the gap? Its clearly losing a generation of kids to tablets and phones.. This way Nintendo will have a problem when Angry Birds appeals to many like Mario does.

It read more like the writer wasn't interested in having crappy third party games and he would rather have that Nintendo keeps reaching out for collaborations with selected third parties. It's a reasonable thought process when you take sales history into account. There were hardly any multiplatform games that moved Nintendo hardware, and I only say "hardly" because I couldn't be bothered to verify that there were none at all.

Only Just Dance for the Wii late on its life and Tetris for the Gameboy. I'm very sure every other Nintendo console had very low selling 3rd party games (except SNES, but those didn't move the hardware numbers anyway).

Not true at all.  Street Fighter II alone probably moved as many consoles in the early days of the SNES as Super Mario World did, and was instrumental in allowing the SNES to catch up to the Genesis which already had a 2 year head start in the west.  Third parties like Square / Enix, Konami and Capcom played a huge role in the NES's and SNES's popularity and success as well.

The N64 also had its share of 3rd party best sellers like the Turok series, Tony Hawk, the WCW / WWF games, and the LucasArts / Factor 5 Star Wars games.  Hell, even the GC had a decent amount of million-seller 3rd party titles.

Then the Wii happened, which became the Just Dance / Guitar Hero and party / minigame machine for 3rd parties.  And now the Wii U can't even get that part right, so its no wonder 3rd party developers have all but abandoned Nintendo.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.