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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Wii U is the only console to ever baffle me

EvenLuck on 20 January 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:

Majora's Mask wasn't a mainstream type game. It's three day cycle turned a lot of people off, also no adult link.

Do you think Twilight Princess would have been the hit it was if it had Wind Waker or Skyward Sword graphics? Be honest.


Why is it that people still seem to judge Zelda games by "the art style" instead of judging them as any other video game? 

Also, by saying "People want a realistic Zelda", it sounds like you're assuming that's what everyone would want, too, but that's not true. In fact, I believe SS and WW looks leagues better than TP. Once again, the cel-shading gives the games that timeless quality, while the gritty, "realistic" style of TP looks incredibly dated by comparison.  

The thing is, I don't take "the art style' into consideration at all when I see a new Zelda game. I go, "Oh cool, a new Zelda!" I don't care about the superficial stuff: As long as it's Zelda, I'll play it. 

To summarize this, don't judge a book by its cover. I believe people who think the art style for the new Zelda game is bad are stuck in 2002. Just...no. 



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Smear-Gel on 20 January 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:
Smear-Gel said:
Stopped reading at "weaker than 360"

This is 2015, not 2012, even die hard Nintendo hating trolls are tired of this sort of crud being repeated ad infinitum.

And once again with the dumb" art style is the most important contributer to Zelda sales" argument.

Amazing.


The vast majority of gamers want Zelda with OOT/TP style graphics.

And the Wii U has yet to show me better graphics than the 360 or PS3 anyway.


Both wrong. 

 

I'd say the majority doesn't care. Not anymore. Not to mention someone explained why using Skyward Sword or comparing it to OOT 3D makes no sense and you just ignored it. 



curl-6 on 20 January 2015
EvenLuck said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

Majora's Mask wasn't a mainstream type game. It's three day cycle turned a lot of people off, also no adult link.

Do you think Twilight Princess would have been the hit it was if it had Wind Waker or Skyward Sword graphics? Be honest.


Why is it that people still seem to judge Zelda games by "the art style" instead of judging them as any other video game? 

Also, by saying "People want a realistic Zelda", it sounds like you're assuming that's what everyone would want, too, but that's not true. In fact, I believe SS and WW looks leagues better than TP. Once again, the cel-shading gives the games that timeless quality, while the gritty, "realistic" style of TP looks incredibly dated by comparison.  

The thing is, I don't take "the art style' into consideration at all when I see a new Zelda game. I go, "Oh cool, a new Zelda!" I don't care about the superficial stuff: As long as it's Zelda, I'll play it. 

This is the issue; hardcore fans will buy it no matterr what.

Non-fans, however, the gaming mainstream, wouldn't be caught dead playing Wind Waker.



burninmylight on 20 January 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:
burninmylight said:

.

So you honestly believe the timing of the releases of MM and SW, along with the fact that they required extra hardware as a barrier to entry had nothing to do with their sales? Be honest.

Do I think WW or SS would have sold like TP if they released in TP's place? WW, no. SS, yes. Like I said, Wind Waker was hated with extreme prejudice before release because of Nintendo's bait-and-switch in 2001 with the Spaceworld demo. I know how it felt because I was one of those people. I hated the game without ever having played it until I finally gave it a try on a demo unit in Gamestop. Now, it's one of the most beloved Zelda games. Meanwhile, TP is scorned and panned as being unoriginal with ugly ass graphics and a horrible swordplay system on the Wii.

Skyward Sword would have absolutely been a commercial and critical success in 2005 (assuming the Wiimote could handle it at the time and didn't need the WM+). After all, it was a critical success in 2011, at the very end of the Wii's life. Go look up any review except Gamespot's.

You claim to be such a big Wii fan, yet you can't seem to remember the motion control craze that swept the world in 2005. We were absolutely swept up in the idea of 1:1 swordplay in the future and salivating for such a game. By the time SS released in 2011, that dream had waned and motion controls became a bad term, but imagine if it released right when it was the hot thing. People would have been rioting in the streets for some 1:1 swordplay Zelda.

The only reason TP sold the way it did was because a) It launched with the Wii, and people needed something to play besides Wii Sports, and b) it was the closest thing to realistic motion controlled combat out at the time. Why do you think Red Steel, a game that was complete trash, sold so well? Because a) It launched with the Wii, and people needed something to play besides Wii Sports, and b) it was the closest thing to realistic motion controlled combat out at the time. So what, are you telling me that Red Steel 1 is superior to Skyward Sword and Wind Waker because it has a realistic and "mature" art style?

People got used to the Wind Waker's graphics pretty quickly - they weren't that bad. Skyward Sword though looks so generic and cartoonish, but not the good kind of cartoon (like Wind Waker). It just looked... bland.

That's why during the Skyward Sword reveal people were like "Huh?" Compared to Twilight Princess which nearly broke down the internet. I remember those days. People were so excited about TP's art style. It's what sold the game. If Skyward Sword had been released instead of it, it wouldn't have got nearly as much hype. The fact is it didn't get really any hype when it was released at all.

Once again, watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U

Then compare it to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhmcBXgnrC8 (go to the 2:20 mark)

The first video pretty much explains everybody's reaction. By the way, that video was before the Wii reveal. When a fan made Twilight Princess with Skyward Sword graphics pretty much everyone said it was terrible.

Skyward Sword's art style was very dull. It had a Saturday morning cartoon vibe to it.


I was around in 2004. I saw the damn video in 2004. People were so hyped because they were finally getting a game that looked like the Spaceworld 2001 demo. I was one of those people. I was also there to see the Skyward Sword reveal in 2010. I know how people reacted. I told you to spare me meaningless videos, but since you're so insistent on bringing them up, care to explain the 2:50 mark?

People were more hyped for Sonic: Lost World when it was revealed than they were for Super Mario 3D Land. Which is the more commercial and critically successful game?

If all you have is a couple of videos of the reactions of .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent of the gaming community, then we can end this converation. I will not repeat myself, and I prefer not to entertain fools with senseless arguments. You literally have nothing to counter with other than these old ass meaningless videos. And you could have at least been polite enough to answer my question, since I answered yours.

I normally try not to take it to this level, but:

Twilord said:
Is this trolling or just... mal-informed?

I just had to. Seriously, if all have you to try to make your point are those videos, then we need to end this right now.



Smear-Gel on 20 January 2015
curl-6 said:
I'm with McDonaldsGuy on the Zelda art style issue.
Gamers, mainstream gamers, want a darker Zelda. Only a subset of Nintendo fans want a cartoon one.
There are far more mainstream gamers than Nintendo fans.

Mainstream gamers did buy millions of NSMB games

I think we really generalize mainstream gamers when talking about Zelda games. 



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McDonaldsGuy on 20 January 2015
EvenLuck said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

Majora's Mask wasn't a mainstream type game. It's three day cycle turned a lot of people off, also no adult link.

Do you think Twilight Princess would have been the hit it was if it had Wind Waker or Skyward Sword graphics? Be honest.


Why is it that people still seem to judge Zelda games by "the art style" instead of judging them as any other video game? 

Also, by saying "People want a realistic Zelda", it sounds like you're assuming that's what everyone would want, too, but that's not true. In fact, I believe SS and WW looks leagues better than TP. Once again, the cel-shading gives the games that timeless quality, while the gritty, "realistic" style of TP looks incredibly dated by comparison.  

The thing is, I don't take "the art style' into consideration at all when I see a new Zelda game. I go, "Oh cool, a new Zelda!" I don't care about the superficial stuff: As long as it's Zelda, I'll play it. 

To summarize this, don't judge a book by its cover. I believe people who think the art style for the new Zelda game is bad are stuck in 2002. Just...no. 

What do you prefer - the cartoon Lord of the Rings movie or the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy?

As said earlier in this thread, the Souls series and spin-offs have replaced Zelda as the premier action adventure/dungeon franchise. And the Souls series did that DESPITE being rated Mature and very difficult.

Even Nintendo admits Zelda should be realistic. That's why with all the Zelda spinoffs the Zelda characters ALWAYS have the realistic art style. Smash Bros. (all but Toon Link), Hyrule Warriors, etc. etc.

By the way Nintendo has admitted before the Wind Waker art style was detrimental to its sales, but were in extreme denial about it. Why else do you think the Wii U's Zelda tech demo was Twilight Princess style and not Skyward Sword style? Because Nintendo knows people wouldn't have cared.



curl-6 on 20 January 2015
Smear-Gel said:
curl-6 said:
I'm with McDonaldsGuy on the Zelda art style issue.
Gamers, mainstream gamers, want a darker Zelda. Only a subset of Nintendo fans want a cartoon one.
There are far more mainstream gamers than Nintendo fans.

Mainstream gamers did buy millions of NSMB games

I think we really generalize mainstream gamers when talking about Zelda games. 

Different genre, different audience, not applicable.



EvenLuck on 20 January 2015
curl-6 said:
EvenLuck said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

Majora's Mask wasn't a mainstream type game. It's three day cycle turned a lot of people off, also no adult link.

Do you think Twilight Princess would have been the hit it was if it had Wind Waker or Skyward Sword graphics? Be honest.


Why is it that people still seem to judge Zelda games by "the art style" instead of judging them as any other video game? 

Also, by saying "People want a realistic Zelda", it sounds like you're assuming that's what everyone would want, too, but that's not true. In fact, I believe SS and WW looks leagues better than TP. Once again, the cel-shading gives the games that timeless quality, while the gritty, "realistic" style of TP looks incredibly dated by comparison.  

The thing is, I don't take "the art style' into consideration at all when I see a new Zelda game. I go, "Oh cool, a new Zelda!" I don't care about the superficial stuff: As long as it's Zelda, I'll play it. 

This is the issue; hardcore fans will buy it no matterr what.

Non-fans, however, the gaming mainstream, wouldn't be caught dead playing Wind Waker.


Not every non-fan thinks that, and it's not like Zelda needs to extend the fanbase anyway. I guarantee that there are millions of people who would buy the new Zelda game right now if they could. 



curl-6 on 20 January 2015
EvenLuck said:

Not every non-fan thinks that, and it's not like Zelda needs to extend the fanbase anyway. I guarantee that there are millions of people who would buy the new Zelda game right now if they could. 

Modern gaming is the age of the Dudebro, who shuns anything percieved to be "kiddy". It's tragic, but that's the way things are.



Smear-Gel on 20 January 2015
curl-6 said:
Smear-Gel said:
curl-6 said:
I'm with McDonaldsGuy on the Zelda art style issue.
Gamers, mainstream gamers, want a darker Zelda. Only a subset of Nintendo fans want a cartoon one.
There are far more mainstream gamers than Nintendo fans.

Mainstream gamers did buy millions of NSMB games

I think we really generalize mainstream gamers when talking about Zelda games. 

Different genre, different audience, not applicable.

Millions of gamers did buy Skyward Sword and WindWaker. 

I think we really generalize mainstream gamers when talking about Zelda games. 

 

I'm mainly saying that I don't really see the Major evidence mainstream gamers hate the cute styles.