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Forums - Politics Discussion - China has just banned the burqa in its biggest Muslim city

Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

I have a Masters Degree in History, specialising in antiquity and Islam...

Many factors are at play in the Middle East, religion is a very important one of them. Islam isn't just Shia and Sunni, it runs much deeper than that. 

In the Middle East religion and politics go hand in hand by the way... Why seperate them? Do you know what khalif means? 

I respect your degree. How then can you say that the killings by ISIS are purely religious in nature? You are aware that many of the Sunni people in Saudi Arabia joined ISIS after having been frustrated by their Shia leader.

A Khalif is a religious leader of a country. Basically if the president of the united states were an imam and led the country on the basis of religion he'd be a Khalif.

I understand that religion and politics go hand in hand, but what I'm trying to say is that, with ISIS specifically, it is a political reason that led a group of violent fanatics to recruit the more moderate people to the cause. That's why I separate them, I don't just blame everything on religion.

No, a khalif is a religious and worldly leader of a community. 

According to Wiki: "A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah  pronunciation (help·info))—a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.[1]"

I know people often mock wikipedia, but they're correct in this. ;)  

I never said that the killings of ISIS are purely religious in nature. I'm saying that religion and politics go hand in hand in the Middle East.



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Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
DanneSandin said:
I do not support these kind of things. A woman (or man) should be free to wear whatever they want; if they wanna wear burqa, then go right a head. Making burqas in particular illegal is just wrong, but what do you expect from a communist dictatorship? Now, if they were to ban ALL kind of face masks, then that would be ok, because then you wouldn't target a specific religion/culture.

My country has banned burqas as well.



DanneSandin on 12 January 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people. Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, who just so happen to have different ideas. Of course it is also a question of politics, but that's not the only factor that's at play here. 

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

What about Hitler?

He was catholic. The Germans supposedly even had "Gott mit uns" (God is with us) on their belt during WWII



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Proxy-Pie on 12 January 2015
MoHasanie said:
Wow, that's not good. They shouldn't ban what people choose to wear especially if its related to their beliefs. I mean, I'm not a supporter of the burqa, but I'm against banning people from wearing a scarf.

This.



DanneSandin on 12 January 2015
Samus Aran said:
DanneSandin said:
I do not support these kind of things. A woman (or man) should be free to wear whatever they want; if they wanna wear burqa, then go right a head. Making burqas in particular illegal is just wrong, but what do you expect from a communist dictatorship? Now, if they were to ban ALL kind of face masks, then that would be ok, because then you wouldn't target a specific religion/culture.

My country has banned burqas as well.

I'm sad to hear. I don't think there's a legitimate reason to ban burqa in particular. Like I said, ho right ahead and ban ALL face masks of every kind, that kind of anounumity isn't required in an open and democratic sociaty



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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Proxy-Pie on 12 January 2015
Samus Aran said:
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

I have a Masters Degree in History, specialising in antiquity and Islam...

Many factors are at play in the Middle East, religion is a very important one of them. Islam isn't just Shia and Sunni, it runs much deeper than that. 

In the Middle East religion and politics go hand in hand by the way... Why seperate them? Do you know what khalif means? 

I respect your degree. How then can you say that the killings by ISIS are purely religious in nature? You are aware that many of the Sunni people in Saudi Arabia joined ISIS after having been frustrated by their Shia leader.

A Khalif is a religious leader of a country. Basically if the president of the united states were an imam and led the country on the basis of religion he'd be a Khalif.

I understand that religion and politics go hand in hand, but what I'm trying to say is that, with ISIS specifically, it is a political reason that led a group of violent fanatics to recruit the more moderate people to the cause. That's why I separate them, I don't just blame everything on religion.

No, a khalif is a religious and worldly leader of a community. 

According to Wiki: "A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah  pronunciation (help·info))—a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.[1]"

I know people often mock wikipedia, but they're correct in this. ;)  

I never said that the killings of ISIS are purely religious in nature. I'm saying that religion and politics go hand in hand in the Middle East.

The Caliph was just a religious leader for centuries due to the political stuff becoming the Sultan's business.



Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

No, a khalif is a religious and worldly leader of a community. 

According to Wiki: "A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah  pronunciation (help·info))—a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.[1]"

I know people often mock wikipedia, but they're correct in this. ;)  

I never said that the killings of ISIS are purely religious in nature. I'm saying that religion and politics go hand in hand in the Middle East.

I don't see how that contradicts what I said. There could be two pretending Khalfs in parallel, you do know that?

A khalif is much more than just a religious leader, even from the very first khalif in history this was already established. Politics and religion are intertwined in Islam. That's a BIG reason why there are so many conflicts there.

In Europe there was always a seperation between state and Christianity (even though Christianity had a lot of political influence until the 20th century). 



DanneSandin on 12 January 2015
padib said:
DanneSandin said:

He was catholic. The Germans supposedly even had "Gott mit uns" (God is with us) on their belt during WWII

He also murdered Polish people.

"Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians. Most of the remaining victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany."

The guy was sick and it really was not a crime led by a religious person. He was just a violent man and was anti-semitic for non-religious reasons.

No doubt. The man is probably one of the sickest men that ever lived. I cannot phantom the kind of hate he must have had



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Samus Aran on 12 January 2015
MohammadBadir said:

The Caliph was just a religious leader for centuries due to the political stuff becoming the Sultan's business.


You're right that the caliph eventually became a mere figurehead, but that doesn't contradict anything I said. It merely shows the weakening of the caliphates (unable to hold a huge empire together). 



DanneSandin on 12 January 2015
Samus Aran said:
padib said:
Samus Aran said:

No, a khalif is a religious and worldly leader of a community. 

According to Wiki: "A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah  pronunciation (help·info))—a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.[1]"

I know people often mock wikipedia, but they're correct in this. ;)  

I never said that the killings of ISIS are purely religious in nature. I'm saying that religion and politics go hand in hand in the Middle East.

I don't see how that contradicts what I said. There could be two pretending Khalfs in parallel, you do know that?

A khalif is much more than just a religious leader, even from the very first khalif in history this was already established. Politics and religion are intertwined in Islam. That's a BIG reason why there are so many conflicts there.

In Europe there was always a seperation between state and Christianity (even though Christianity had a lot of political influence until the 20th century). 

Well, in all fairness I DO think there actually was more than one khalif at certain points in history. And contrary to what was first intended, the khalifs formed their own dynasties.

And there hasn't always been a clear cut line between state and church in Europe; tahat's one of the characteristics of the middle ages.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.