Forums - Politics Discussion - China has just banned the burqa in its biggest Muslim city

padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Most religious intolerance comes from other religions, e.g. muslims against christians and vice versa. 

The problem with most religions these days is twofold: 

- They're monotheistic, i.e. there can only be one God.

- They have a universal message, i.e. everyone not following their God will burn in hell.

Sorry for not liking those religions padib! 

Of course I'm merely talking about the institutions behind said religions now. Not every Christian, Jew* or Muslim thinks this way. 

* The beliefs of Judaism considering afterlife are more complicated than Christianity and Islam though. 

If we look at this thread alone as the best common evidence, we already see that most of the "good riddance" type opinion is from the non-religious.

So far, the most religious intolerance I have been whitnessing is from the non-religious.

As for killing by religious people, look no further than ISIS, they are muslims killing muslims. It's not a question of religion here, and mostly never is. It usually is a question of politics.

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people. Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, who just so happen to have different ideas. Of course it is also a question of politics, but that's not the only factor that's at play here. 

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 



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padib said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
It's understandable in my view and in China's view.

Which part, the burqas, the hijabs or the beards being frowned upon?


All except beards, unless the beards all look the same....



Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people.

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

They (non-religious) may not express their intolerance with violence, but they express it with repression, fear and paranoia. With suppression and segregation.

ISIS are killing christians, but my point is that they are killing Shia. These are muslims. The issue is not one of religion. It's an issue of politics. The shia and sunni in the area ISIS is controlling have been tribes at odds, one repressing the other for political reasons.

This needs to be fully understood before putting the blame on religion.



padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Nowhere in the Quran does it say women need to wear burqas. 

If they want to wear the burqa as an expression of the religion, be it in the Quran or in the Hadith, it's their expression of religion.

A security issue is legitimate, but why frown upon the beards and hijabs? It becomes clearer that the issue is one of fear, paranoia and intolerance.

The origin of the burqa is cultural, not religious. 



Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people. Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, who just so happen to have different ideas. Of course it is also a question of politics, but that's not the only factor that's at play here. 

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

What about Hitler?



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I can see for visability's sake why they would ban the niqab. But so long as a burqa isn't worn by a public official, I see no harm in it. Also, preventing people from enjoying their religious holidays, in this case the Ramadan is just plain wrong.



that's great.



padib said:
Samus Aran said:

Islam is not one religion, there are different movements, hence muslims killing muslims. It's religious intolerance against religious people.

IS are also killing Christians in the Middle-East and other religions. 

There has been much more conflict in this world between different movements of religion than religion vs. atheists. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. I don't see atheists blowing up mosques, churches or synagogues... 

They (non-religious) may not express their intolerance with violence, but they express it with repression, fear and paranoia. With suppression and segregation.

ISIS are killing christians, but my point is that they are killing Shia. These are muslims. The issue is not one of religion. It's an issue of politics. The shia and sunni in the area ISIS is controlling have been tribes at odds, one repressing the other for political reasons.

This needs to be fully understood before putting the blame on religion.

I have a Masters Degree in History, specialising in antiquity and Islam...

Many factors are at play in the Middle East, religion is a very important one of them. Islam isn't just Shia and Sunni, it runs much deeper than that. 

In the Middle East religion and politics go hand in hand by the way... Why seperate them? Do you know what khalif means? 



Wow, that's not good. They shouldn't ban what people choose to wear especially if its related to their beliefs. I mean, I'm not a supporter of the burqa, but I'm against banning people from wearing a scarf.



    

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Samus Aran said:

The origin of the burqa is cultural, not religious. 

It is an interpretation of the quran and hadith with a fatwa, which mentions the need to cover the face. It is not mandatory to all muslims but it is to some.

Regardless, it is their cultural freedom of expression if you prefer, which should be allowed to them unless there is a legitimate need to avoid it.