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Forums - Nintendo - Would it be possible for the Wii U to run Zelda U at 60fps?

vivster said:
If it is able to run at 1080p30 it will be able to run 720p60 as well. Not that it easily could.

No this is incorrect.

True its correct that GPU load is roughly the same, as in about twice as many pixels at half the frame rate equals half the number of pixels at twice the framerate .

But the CPU load doubles going from 30fps to 60fps. Looking at this wide open game I think the CPU load will be pretty high already at 30fps. The Wii U's CPU isnt all that powerful to begin with, if you are CPU bottlenecked it doesnt matter what resolution you run it at.  



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Damian.W said:
Paatar said:
Damian.W said:
No, i doubt it.

Windwaker, despite much simpler visuals, ran at 30fps.
Mariokart, a on rails racer, ran at 60fps, at 720p.
An open world Zelda that looks gorgeous and almost the size of Skyrim? How would they acheive 60fps? Not possible.


First off, the new Zelda is bigger than Skyrim. Just so you know. And second, it is possible for them to achieve 60fps. The Wii U can handle it. Now, with the open world like Zelda, 1080p and 60fps might not be possible, but 720p and 60fps is possible.

Scale is realative, as I was referring to both content and physical size. The map may be bigger than skyrim, but amount of content in it, such as dungeons and caverns outside the story, will only be known on release.

As for the other argument, i need to again refer to mario kart. Different devs, sure, but it's still 720p, 60fps on a linear track. The new zelda is open world, so it has much more to render at once than mario kart.

Of course, Nintendo are the equivelent of sorcerors when it comes to optimizing, so maybe you're right. 

Scale is realative, as I was referring to both content and physical size. The map may be bigger than skyrim, but amount of content in it, such as dungeons and caverns outside the story, will only be known on release.

You admit it, the size of the game when reffering to both content and physical size will only be known on release, so do not say "An open world Zelda that looks gorgeous and almost the size of Skyrim?" when you do not know. Sound good? Do not claim a game is bigger when one isn't released yet and you KNOW that.

Also, it might be a linear track, however, that is not my point. Open world might be harder to achieve a smooth 60fps, but as you said, Nintendo is basically a god when it comes to optimizing. They did that with a lot of things. Plus, Zelda is one of their main franchises. I doubt they would make it 30fps. They know it would be bad.



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teigaga said:
curl-6 said:
teigaga said:

Although Skyrim is a busier game, Zelda will likely have more advanced effects. Also CPU wise isn't the Wii U  weaker then the 360?

Honestly though, I wouldn't compare it to Skyrim simply because Nintendo are not Bethesda. This generation they've made it very clear they've struggled to get to grips with HD development, whereas teams like Bethesda make it their gaol to be at the bleeding edge of tech. Zelda U will be highly optimised to to run at its desired settings, but I don't think it will be highly optimised to squeeze every ounce of power from the hardware- something Skyrim looks to do on the 360. To be honest we haven't seen this from Nintendo since, twilight princess on gamecube.  Typically its been 3rd parties who push Nintendo hardware(Retro, Rare, Capcom, Factor 5) nintendo merely work within hardware limitations with brilliant attention to detail and art design (Mario Galaxy, Windwaker, Mario Kart 8). 

Weaker CPU, but better GPU and twice as much RAM.

And yeah, Nintendo stopped caring about pushing the limits of their own hardware some time ago.

Yeah, I'm not an expert but I would think the frame rate is more dependent on the CPU and it will be pretty taxed with an open world game meant to mirror the real world? 

The CPU generally handles tasks like AI, animation, and physics. From what we've seen so far, Zelda looks much more GPU/Memory bound; a good fit for Wii U's hardware, in other words.



Paatar said:
Damian.W said:
Paatar said:
Damian.W said:
No, i doubt it.

Windwaker, despite much simpler visuals, ran at 30fps.
Mariokart, a on rails racer, ran at 60fps, at 720p.
An open world Zelda that looks gorgeous and almost the size of Skyrim? How would they acheive 60fps? Not possible.


First off, the new Zelda is bigger than Skyrim. Just so you know. And second, it is possible for them to achieve 60fps. The Wii U can handle it. Now, with the open world like Zelda, 1080p and 60fps might not be possible, but 720p and 60fps is possible.

Scale is realative, as I was referring to both content and physical size. The map may be bigger than skyrim, but amount of content in it, such as dungeons and caverns outside the story, will only be known on release.

As for the other argument, i need to again refer to mario kart. Different devs, sure, but it's still 720p, 60fps on a linear track. The new zelda is open world, so it has much more to render at once than mario kart.

Of course, Nintendo are the equivelent of sorcerors when it comes to optimizing, so maybe you're right. 

Scale is realative, as I was referring to both content and physical size. The map may be bigger than skyrim, but amount of content in it, such as dungeons and caverns outside the story, will only be known on release.

You admit it, the size of the game when reffering to both content and physical size will only be known on release, so do not say "An open world Zelda that looks gorgeous and almost the size of Skyrim?" when you do not know. Sound good? Do not claim a game is bigger when one isn't released yet and you KNOW that.

Also, it might be a linear track, however, that is not my point. Open world might be harder to achieve a smooth 60fps, but as you said, Nintendo is basically a god when it comes to optimizing. They did that with a lot of things. Plus, Zelda is one of their main franchises. I doubt they would make it 30fps. They know it would be bad.


There is an absurd amount of content and locations within Skyrim, so i'll use "almost" until the game actually comes out, since it's the only word that I can use to compare them. 

In either case, bringing a game to 60fps for a console like the Wii U is especially difficult, because to maintain high framerates requires a decent cpu. With the power it's 3 core cpu has, it COULD reach 60fps, but mainating that in combat and in events with special lighting, particle, and water effects wouldn't work. Bayonetta 2 is a clear example, as it is 60fps much of the time, but during combat in some areas (underwater near fimbulvetre)it drops down to 50. 



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Uabit said:

In nintendo is very common to see games with no AA, just ask digital foundry and how their eyes have been many times hurted by Nintendo :(

Actually, I believe the only Nintendo games confirmed by Digital Foundry to have no AA are Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros, the latter of which was 1080p. Hardly "many times." They even praised Smash's IQ.



Gammalad said:
When we find out what Xenoblade Chronicles X is running at we can get a good idea of what Zelda U will run at. I believe that Nintendo will find a way to make the game run at 1080p 60fps, but even if its at 720p 60fps it will still look as good as 1080p.

XCX will be 720p, to allow for a larger and more detailed world.



I would be fine with 720p 60fps



GProgrammer said:
vivster said:
If it is able to run at 1080p30 it will be able to run 720p60 as well. Not that it easily could.

No this is incorrect.

True its correct that GPU load is roughly the same, as in about twice as many pixels at half the frame rate equals half the number of pixels at twice the framerate .

But the CPU load doubles going from 30fps to 60fps. Looking at this wide open game I think the CPU load will be pretty high already at 30fps. The Wii U's CPU isnt all that powerful to begin with, if you are CPU bottlenecked it doesnt matter what resolution you run it at.  

wii u's gpu is a gpgpu, meaning it can do a lot of stuff a cpu does. and there a big xageration over wii u's cpu power, generally because people only compare clock speed and ignore the rest.



curl-6 said:
teigaga said:
curl-6 said:
teigaga said:

Although Skyrim is a busier game, Zelda will likely have more advanced effects. Also CPU wise isn't the Wii U  weaker then the 360?

Honestly though, I wouldn't compare it to Skyrim simply because Nintendo are not Bethesda. This generation they've made it very clear they've struggled to get to grips with HD development, whereas teams like Bethesda make it their gaol to be at the bleeding edge of tech. Zelda U will be highly optimised to to run at its desired settings, but I don't think it will be highly optimised to squeeze every ounce of power from the hardware- something Skyrim looks to do on the 360. To be honest we haven't seen this from Nintendo since, twilight princess on gamecube.  Typically its been 3rd parties who push Nintendo hardware(Retro, Rare, Capcom, Factor 5) nintendo merely work within hardware limitations with brilliant attention to detail and art design (Mario Galaxy, Windwaker, Mario Kart 8). 

Weaker CPU, but better GPU and twice as much RAM.

And yeah, Nintendo stopped caring about pushing the limits of their own hardware some time ago.

Yeah, I'm not an expert but I would think the frame rate is more dependent on the CPU and it will be pretty taxed with an open world game meant to mirror the real world? 

The CPU generally handles tasks like AI, animation, and physics. From what we've seen so far, Zelda looks much more GPU/Memory bound; a good fit for Wii U's hardware, in other words.

Yeah, from the demo it doesn't look llike much is going on but I'm thinking about the comments about it mirroring the real world. This could simply be day cycle day/night time cycles or it be much deeper with wildlife,  complex AI with scedules etc. I'm just assuming that what we saw in the demo isn't a good representation of the majority of the game because its extremely empty.