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Forums - Nintendo - Reggie, implies that there isn't a big difference between Xbox and PS4

bowserthedog said:
jlmurph2 said:


1. The Wii U won't sell that much

2. The E&D division of MS has not taken a loss even with the Xbox One price cuts. If the Xbox One sells 65 million hardware that means that Xbox One sold a ton of software. Xbox has the best tie ratio in the industry and MS knows it.

There is a lot more than Xbox that goes into MS's e and d division. I can assure you that in the upcoming quarter which includes the price drop microsoft is losing money on the xbox one. Looking at Microsoft's profit in the E and D division to make statements on the success of the Xbox One would be about as relevant as looking at sony's overall losses for insights into how successfull ps4 is.

Then go ahead and tell me how much money MS is losing from Xbox One.



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jlmurph2 said:
bowserthedog said:
jlmurph2 said:


1. The Wii U won't sell that much

2. The E&D division of MS has not taken a loss even with the Xbox One price cuts. If the Xbox One sells 65 million hardware that means that Xbox One sold a ton of software. Xbox has the best tie ratio in the industry and MS knows it.

There is a lot more than Xbox that goes into MS's e and d division. I can assure you that in the upcoming quarter which includes the price drop microsoft is losing money on the xbox one. Looking at Microsoft's profit in the E and D division to make statements on the success of the Xbox One would be about as relevant as looking at sony's overall losses for insights into how successfull ps4 is.

Then go ahead and tell me how much money MS is losing from Xbox One.


I think we'd both love to have that information but we simply don't have it. Microsoft would only want to share that information if it was flattering to xbox one which it is not. I don't think you're actually suggesting that with this new price drop Microsoft is making money on xbox one sales?



bowserthedog said:
jlmurph2 said:

Then go ahead and tell me how much money MS is losing from Xbox One.


I think we'd both love to have that information but we simply don't have it. Microsoft would only want to share that information if it was flattering to xbox one which it is not. I don't think you're actually suggesting that with this new price drop Microsoft is making money on xbox one sales?

I'm gonna repeat a previous post. Buying a console is a commitment. There's no possible way you're going to buy a console and not buy any software for it. Especially with it being an Xbox because its a fact that Xbox Owners buy the most games. That combined with profit from Xbox Live, controllers, Kinects, anything bought through Xbox Music/Video makes any price cut easily recovered.



bowserthedog said:
Guitarguy said:

They are still miles ahead of the Wii U. I don't even consider the Wii U a true 8th generation console. More like 7.5 generation console :P


I don't consider the Xbox One or PS4 current gen consoles based on the fact that the 7th generation was extra long and spanned 2 normal generations and yet when they released these systems they still only had the regular leap in power. Wiiu is a gen 7.5 console, xbone and ps4 are 8th gen and pc is already in the 9th gen using the type of logic you are using. This is all just using your logic on that power is what determines what gen a console is in however I don't have that view. They are all in the 8th gen. The definition of generation is "the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time". A new generation is about birthing something new and living at the same time as others in that generation. 


That's cool. I can definitely respect your notion for sure. I just do not consider the Wii U to be of the same caliber of the X1/PS4 in terms of online functionality, graphical prowress etc. I do feel Nintendo have always been one-generation behind for quite some time. The Wii lacked high-definition whilst the PS3/360 dived into it head first and it seems the Wii U is only now just catching up with online gaming. Just my opinion. PC will always be king of visuals.



jlmurph2 said:
bowserthedog said:
jlmurph2 said:

Then go ahead and tell me how much money MS is losing from Xbox One.


I think we'd both love to have that information but we simply don't have it. Microsoft would only want to share that information if it was flattering to xbox one which it is not. I don't think you're actually suggesting that with this new price drop Microsoft is making money on xbox one sales?

I'm gonna repeat a previous post. Buying a console is a commitment. There's no possible way you're going to buy a console and not buy any software for it. Especially with it being an Xbox because its a fact that Xbox Owners buy the most games. That combined with profit from Xbox Live, controllers, Kinects, anything bought through Xbox Music/Video makes any price cut easily recovered.


True that Xbox owners buy the most of the game sales are 3rd party games which I believe Microsoft only receives 30% of the revenue from. The vast majority of game sales on the wiiu are first party games where Nintendo doesn't have to share the revenue. Nintendo is also set to benefit from amiibo sales which I expect to become a larger business than skylanders. We know that in the past when unit share has been similar like the original xbox versus the gamecube Nintendo made money and microsoft lost big. In this generation Microsoft will sell many more units than Nintendo which will make their losses less severe but but even if Microsoft outsells Nintendo hardware 3 to 1 I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft makes less money than Nintendo. All reggie is suggesting is that he feels more comfortable with a differeniated product. Sony and Microsoft have the spend  alot more in advertising and take many financial risks which Nintendo doesn't have to take as a result. Nintendo doesn't need to spend billions on advertising and doesn't need to do knee jerk price cuts because on a micro level they don't have a direct competitor. They don't have some other company out there which has 90% of the same games as they do to compete against. On a Macro level Nintendo has many competitors spanning from Apple and Amazon to Microsoft and Sony. I think you'd be very hard pressed to make a case that Nintendo would be better off competing directly against Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is clearly better off with a differentiated product right now since they can't fall back on office and windows sales to weather a storm. Ask sega how competing directly worked out for them.



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Guitarguy said:
bowserthedog said:
Guitarguy said:

They are still miles ahead of the Wii U. I don't even consider the Wii U a true 8th generation console. More like 7.5 generation console :P


I don't consider the Xbox One or PS4 current gen consoles based on the fact that the 7th generation was extra long and spanned 2 normal generations and yet when they released these systems they still only had the regular leap in power. Wiiu is a gen 7.5 console, xbone and ps4 are 8th gen and pc is already in the 9th gen using the type of logic you are using. This is all just using your logic on that power is what determines what gen a console is in however I don't have that view. They are all in the 8th gen. The definition of generation is "the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time". A new generation is about birthing something new and living at the same time as others in that generation. 


That's cool. I can definitely respect your notion for sure. I just do not consider the Wii U to be of the same caliber of the X1/PS4 in terms of online functionality, graphical prowress etc. I do feel Nintendo have always been one-generation behind for quite some time. The Wii lacked high-definition whilst the PS3/360 dived into it head first and it seems the Wii U is only now just catching up with online gaming. Just my opinion. PC will always be king of visuals.

I agree with you on all the points you've made. Nintendo has a long ways to go and maybe one day they will be in a position to re-enter as a direct competitor to microsoft and sony but right now I think Reggie is correct and that Nintendo is better off with a differeniated product.



bowserthedog said:
Guitarguy said:
bowserthedog said:
Guitarguy said:

They are still miles ahead of the Wii U. I don't even consider the Wii U a true 8th generation console. More like 7.5 generation console :P


I don't consider the Xbox One or PS4 current gen consoles based on the fact that the 7th generation was extra long and spanned 2 normal generations and yet when they released these systems they still only had the regular leap in power. Wiiu is a gen 7.5 console, xbone and ps4 are 8th gen and pc is already in the 9th gen using the type of logic you are using. This is all just using your logic on that power is what determines what gen a console is in however I don't have that view. They are all in the 8th gen. The definition of generation is "the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time". A new generation is about birthing something new and living at the same time as others in that generation. 


That's cool. I can definitely respect your notion for sure. I just do not consider the Wii U to be of the same caliber of the X1/PS4 in terms of online functionality, graphical prowress etc. I do feel Nintendo have always been one-generation behind for quite some time. The Wii lacked high-definition whilst the PS3/360 dived into it head first and it seems the Wii U is only now just catching up with online gaming. Just my opinion. PC will always be king of visuals.

I agree with you on all the points you've made. Nintendo has a long ways to go and maybe one day they will be in a position to re-enter as a direct competitor to microsoft and sony but right now I think Reggie is correct and that Nintendo is better off with a differeniated product.


For better or worse, Nintendo has mostly followed its own lead. Depending on their 2015/16 lineup of software, I may even consider purchasing a Wii U to compliment my PS4. I was close to getting one for MK8 but I do need a few more must-have titles before shelling out the money for it. I personally do not care for the gamepad and would have much preferred they drop the price $60US and just include the pro-controller.



bowserthedog said:
jlmurph2 said:
bowserthedog said:


I think we'd both love to have that information but we simply don't have it. Microsoft would only want to share that information if it was flattering to xbox one which it is not. I don't think you're actually suggesting that with this new price drop Microsoft is making money on xbox one sales?

I'm gonna repeat a previous post. Buying a console is a commitment. There's no possible way you're going to buy a console and not buy any software for it. Especially with it being an Xbox because its a fact that Xbox Owners buy the most games. That combined with profit from Xbox Live, controllers, Kinects, anything bought through Xbox Music/Video makes any price cut easily recovered.


True that Xbox owners buy the most of the game sales are 3rd party games which I believe Microsoft only receives 30% of the revenue from. The vast majority of game sales on the wiiu are first party games where Nintendo doesn't have to share the revenue. Nintendo is also set to benefit from amiibo sales which I expect to become a larger business than skylanders. We know that in the past when unit share has been similar like the original xbox versus the gamecube Nintendo made money and microsoft lost big. In this generation Microsoft will sell many more units than Nintendo which will make their losses less severe but but even if Microsoft outsells Nintendo hardware 3 to 1 I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft makes less money than Nintendo. All reggie is suggesting is that he feels more comfortable with a differeniated product. Sony and Microsoft have the spend  alot more in advertising and take many financial risks which Nintendo doesn't have to take as a result. Nintendo doesn't need to spend billions on advertising and doesn't need to do knee jerk price cuts because on a micro level they don't have a direct competitor. They don't have some other company out there which has 90% of the same games as they do to compete against. On a Macro level Nintendo has many competitors spanning from Apple and Amazon to Microsoft and Sony. I think you'd be very hard pressed to make a case that Nintendo would be better off competing directly against Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is clearly better off with a differentiated product right now since they can't fall back on office and windows sales to weather a storm. Ask sega how competing directly worked out for them.

You can't compare Xbox's 1st gen losses to what Xbox One is doing.

It makes sense to take losses when you're starting a console in 2001 aquiring developers and making games with 3rd party devs. Even with all those losses the Xbox made a name for itself with marketshare and that is a success. The 360 launched and then made tons of money for Microsoft and still is making money for Microsoft.



Many HD-Twin fanboys just don't get business. As soon the Wii U has a large enough hardware base the risk of porting or even developing exclusive Wii U titles can be justified.

For Indies this is already the case. Thats why there are so many on the Wii U and some of them with exclusive titles.

It wouldn't hurt the thirds to think a bit about more what the Nintendo customers are about.

Nobody needs the "full experience" of - lets say - a CoD on the Wii U. It might not be possible at all. Of course Reggie would like to see the "full experience" if possible.

But - and thats what Reggie is also stating - a special, exclusive CoD U tailored to its unique controllers (GamePad, WiiMote/Nunchuck) is far more desirable and of more value. For Nintendo and us gamers.

The other side of the medal isn't that bright for Playstation and XBox if seen from this perspective. If a game depends that much on its graphics that it defines it core experience instead of the game play mechanics - then it is just a "me too" product soon to be replaced and forgotten.

There is a reason why most Nintendo games do not get discounted even after years. There is a reason why Nintendo can sell 10-15 year old games as HD or 3DS remakes.

While not every Nintendo title are such classics - the percentage of classics on the Wii U is much higher than on the HD twins and we can expect that this will not change in the foreseeable future.



People are trying awfully hard to prove that games which doesn't feature a cartoon style character are the same, huh? I do admit that makes me chuckle.

It's kind of pitiful, isn't it? This need by a few Nintendo fans to marginalize anything that they don't have? Yeah, we know you don't have a Halo or an Uncharted or a God of War or a Sunset Overdrive but how can anyone think those games are the same? That's silly and you know it.

Look at all the IP Sony released last gen. The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Flower, Journey, God of War, The Last Swan, Tokyo Jungle, Little Big Planet, Infamous, Wipeout, MLB: The Show, Fat Princess, Hotshots Golf, and many others. And don't try to tell me, "oh, but they only focused on realistic games, everything else doesn't count." Bullshit. It all counts.

The whole idea that Playstation only targets a narrow demographic is complete rubbish. In fact, the reason I stopped being buying Nintendo consoles is because Sony offered so much more variety.