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Forums - Gaming - CONSOLEs vs PC

Pemalite said:
ICStats said:
Pemalite said:
ICStats said:

Also certainly there were no GPUs with 8GB of addressable GDDR5, or DirectX 11+ capabilities that far ago.

I still don't have "8Gb" of total addressable GDDR5 in my PC for games. - Only 4Gb. (16Gb total for compute or non-combined tasks.)
Yet, I still have over 10x the GPU performance of the PS4.

Hmm, so what do you have 4 GTX Titan SLI?

If yes then it seems about as relevant as comparing your single PC to a compute cluster and laughing at how poor single PCs are.

I wouldn't be caught dead using nVidia.

But you are right.

However, my point was, you don't need "8Gb" of GDDR5 to match or exceed the PS4's performance.

ICStats said:

Your PC also doesn't get any better over the years unless you buy more upgrades.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

Lets take my main PC as an example shall we? When I first built it, the motherboards BIOS/UEFI was still pretty "fresh", over the years and thanks to the tweaks Asus has performed at the BIOS/UEFI level my overclocking headroom increased from 4.6ghz to 5ghz on my 3930K.

PC's also constantly get driver updates that increases performance.

You also get Game, OS and API updates which also improves performance and in some cases, graphics (Aka. Half Life).

Consoles also get software and SDK updates that improve what developers can do, but ofcourse games don't usually get performance updates.

Anyhow an 8% exta overclock on your $600 CPU is not so big difference, and doesn't apply to most folks.  If someone was trying to get even close to console pricing, they'd be dealing with El Cheapo motherboards, locked CPUs, cheap cooling, and PSUs rated just enough.  Enthusiast parts come at a premium as I'm sure you know.



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Azzanation said:


Consoles are great for there own exclusives aswell but with the paywalls and DRM, its turning into a book library were you basically rent out games and dont even own them anymore.


When PC games revolve around Steam and its heavy DRM, that's surely funny to read.



PC Gamers want to best that gaming has to offer, and they are willing to pay more for it up front.  

As someone mentioned already in this thread, you will easily make your money back on games in no time.  Example:  I have $1800 bucks in my gaming rig, built 2 years ago(i7 3770k, 16 GB RAM, dual 7970's), yes this was a lot more than a $400 PS4.  (for me the XB1 doesnt exist as it's a steaming pile of inferior hardware even in the console space, but this is just my opinion).  

The last 2 months alone the games I am interested in were Alien ISO, Evil Within, Dragon Age 3, FarCry 4.  On PS4 these would have cost me $240 bucks at $60 bucks a pop.  I was able to get Alien for $33, Evil Within for $40, and DA3 for $47.  On those 3 new releases alone, I saved $63, with just some simple leg work searching for the deals.  I have not pre-ordered Farcry 4 yet, but the point is that there WILL be a deal out there and I will save at least $13 dollars, and thats if I am wanting it on release day.

This is repeated all year long, every year.  Not to mention the steam sales.  There is also the undeniable fact that PC gamers get the best verisons of the games, period.  another example:  Evil within was released and was pretty much a direct port of the PS4 version, but within a week bathesda patched it and fixed the frame rate and letter box giving PC the best version of the game.

There was an article I read not to long go, about the top 25 PS4 games, and everything on the list was available, and superior on PC, accept for Resogun and Second son.  We are a year into this console generation people.  If you want to console game thats cool, and I get it from an upfront cost perspective, but in the long run, PC gamers will have the superior experience, and save money as well.



I can afford to get all consoles and gaming PC. I use gaming PC for multi-plats and consoles (Xbox and Playstation) for exclusives only these days. Current gen is severely underpowered compared to previous generations at the same time frame. Also it's easy to PC game console style these days which is why I game mostly on PC now and have done so for a few years.



dgboweniii said:

PC Gamers want to best that gaming has to offer, and they are willing to pay more for it up front.  

As someone mentioned already in this thread, you will easily make your money back on games in no time.  Example:  I have $1800 bucks in my gaming rig, built 2 years ago(i7 3770k, 16 GB RAM, dual 7970's), yes this was a lot more than a $400 PS4.  (for me the XB1 doesnt exist as it's a steaming pile of inferior hardware even in the console space, but this is just my opinion).  

The last 2 months alone the games I am interested in were Alien ISO, Evil Within, Dragon Age 3, FarCry 4.  On PS4 these would have cost me $240 bucks at $60 bucks a pop.  I was able to get Alien for $33, Evil Within for $40, and DA3 for $47.  On those 3 new releases alone, I saved $63, with just some simple leg work searching for the deals.  I have not pre-ordered Farcry 4 yet, but the point is that there WILL be a deal out there and I will save at least $13 dollars, and thats if I am wanting it on release day.

This is repeated all year long, every year.  Not to mention the steam sales.  There is also the undeniable fact that PC gamers get the best verisons of the games, period.  another example:  Evil within was released and was pretty much a direct port of the PS4 version, but within a week bathesda patched it and fixed the frame rate and letter box giving PC the best version of the game.

There was an article I read not to long go, about the top 25 PS4 games, and everything on the list was available, and superior on PC, accept for Resogun and Second son.  We are a year into this console generation people.  If you want to console game thats cool, and I get it from an upfront cost perspective, but in the long run, PC gamers will have the superior experience, and save money as well.

Nobody is saying PC is not going to have superior versions, if you have superior hardware.  PC games are not usually optimized as well as console games are, but they have unlocked settings so you can run much higher settings than consoles if you have high specs, and also much lower if you don't have the specs.

About deals, I got the BestBuy gamers club unlocked ($30 for two years now) and so I've been getting 20% off PS4 games ($60 -> $48) and $10 reward for pre-ordering COD, FC4, GTAV.  So effectively you can get console games for $38 on release day without much legwork.



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Intrinsic said:
Pemalite said:


Consoles also do less at any one time.


Say WHAAAAAAT?
Like when? Are you computer or software engineer to say that?



Intrinsic said:
sc94597 said:

The OP made the point that we must compare a $350-$400 PC with a console. My point is that a pc does more than a console and therefore will cost more. Having said that a $400 PC can be built that does everything a console does and the extra things a PC does. So even within your fault framework such an argument doesn't hold.

And this is the nonsense (sorry, just getting really frustrated) that Pc gamers keep bringing into this argumnet. What else you can or can't do with a PC has nothing to do with playing a game or not playing a game on a PC. That has no bearing on this discussion at all. 

If someone has only $500-$700 to spend on a device. And his primary reason for wanting to buy this device is to play games. He may already have a laptop that does everything he wants a PC to do or even just a tablet that he is content with or God forbid a phone. He just wants something to play his games on now. This person is faced with two options. Buy a console, or buy/build a dedicated gaming rig. Its that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

Whatever he bought the device for is what he would use the device for the most. My PS4, can also do more than just play games. But all I care about is its ability to play games. And at the end of the day, if I post a screenshot here of my  PS4 running COD:AW and you post a screenshot of yours. And yours looks better. If you are asked, what are you running that on, your answer would be an overclocked pentium cpu and a $190 GPU with 8GB RAM. The answer to that question will not entail how well your PC can run word or photoshop. Cause the only thing we are talking about here is that screenshot of the game you posted.

If he is better of building a PC withhis $700, if playing on PCs are better, if it would cost him les down the road... are all irrelevant to this particular topic. This isn't about which platform is better or how much you spent. That is not what i meant by $350-$400 consoles. What I meant is that $350-$400 represents an estimate of what the hardwrae costs inside the console. So if its performance is being compared to a PC running a game, its only fair that itbe compared to a PC with a similar "hardware" price point. If you read my last few posts in one of them a clearly described exactly what I mean.

If all that mattered was the ability to play games (and no other multimedia functions) then why would those features be advertised by the companies and why would they even be implemented in the costs of producing the system? Why didn't Sony just use more powerful hardware instead of spending money for their software to support multimedia applications like Netflix? Quite obviously that is part of the console's appeal and it will allow for more consoles to sell. I'm sure there are a minority of consumers who only want their devices to play games and would not care if these other features were not present. However, when you have a heading "hardware" and you are doing a cost-analysis, you must look at all hardware. But anyway, let me just list a few things my PC can do, relevant to gaming that a PS4 (without a PC) can't do (as well) currently (and no cheap laptop can either.) 

I can stream any game I play and have a social interaction involved with that gameplay through whichever application I choose (i.e Twich, Ustream) better than a PS4 can. 

I can record my gameplay at resolutions of 1080p and put them online for commentary better than a PS4 can. 

I can modify my games to my choosing, eliminating game breaking glitches, poor framerates, improving graphics, and gameplay. 

 

I can play games on multiple monitors. 

I can play old games at high resolutions and framerates. 

All of these improve the gaming experience, and therefore are directly relevant to gaming. Graphical capability and performance isn't the only hardware feature that involves a cost.  In the price of the PC one pays more for a more versatile Operating System that can perform many gaming-related functions. One also pays for a GPU that can perform functions like outputting to two (or more monitors), meanwhile such features are obsolete and unnecessary in console-gaming, and therefore do not factor when developing the GPU of a PS4/Xbone.  

That is just one example of why comparing a $350-$400 console and a $350-$400 PC will not work fairly. If we are only speaking of graphics, then we should then only add up components that influence graphics (not the operating system, for example.) However, there is much more to PC gaming than just "better graphics" and the type of hardware found in PC builds reflect this (some people choose a weaker Nvidia card at the same price-point because it has shandowplay, for example.) 

The flaw in the argument is this:

"shoudn't it only be fair to compare a PC that cost just as much and will give you the exact same things in the box?"

What you get in the box, even at the same pricepoint is not the same. What you are paying for, is not the exact same. In your opening post you said nothing about performance or graphics. You mentioned, "what is in the box." It was generally labeled "hardware", which is more than just performance and graphics, and it just so happens that one can get more freedoms out of PC hardware to game how we want than with console hardware, regardless of graphics. That is why costs of components would be higher, there are more things a PC GPU must be designed for than a console GPU. There are more things a PC OS must be designed for than a console OS. There are more things a PC CPU must be designed for than a console cpu. And some of these "more things" are relevant to playing video games and sharing your experiences with the ever-more social gaming community. If somebody chooses to game on a PC it is because they want these "more things" included. PC gaming isn't only about having the better graphics and the faster framerates. They are corollary to the main experience, an experience which is not free by the way. 

 



the-pi-guy said:
sc94597 said:

The OP made the point that we must compare a $350-$400 PC with a console. My point is that a pc does more than a console and therefore will cost more. Having said that a $400 PC can be built that does everything a console does and the extra things a PC does. So even within your fault framework such an argument doesn't hold.

The extra things a PC does, has little to do with the topic.  

It's like saying you may have a better car, but mine has a DVD player in the back.  

Just because it does extra things has little bearing on the topic.  

Except when these extra things are relevant to the video gaming experience. And I'm not saying you have a "better car" I'm saying we both have a comparable car at the same price-range and mine is still more versatile. Mine can ride on streets, on dirt roads, and on mountains. Yours can only ride on streets, but it might do it slightly better, if at all. That's the comparison. 



sc94597 said:

1. If all that mattered was the ability to play games (and no other multimedia functions) then why would those features be advertised by the companies and why would they even be implemented in the costs of producing the system? Why didn't Sony just use more powerful hardware instead of spending money for their software to support multimedia applications like Netflix? 

2. In your opening post you said nothing about performance or graphics. You mentioned, "what is in the box." It was generally labeled "hardware", 

 

 

  1. Can you show me one commercial sony has made saying that the PS3 plays netflix? Or that its also a blu-ray player. I am beginning to think you do not grasp what it means when referring to somethings primary fucntion. A gaming consoles primary fucntion is to play games. That is solely what it is designed for. Everything else it can do is just a bonus. But I strongly doubt anyone alive spends $400 on a console primarily to play netflix. And as for Pcs, if all someone wants to do with their PC is browse, youtube, check their mail and edit the odd documnet or two. I strongly doubt they would buy anything outside a basic laptop.
  2. You should read my opening post again. I am just not gona do this again with yet another person that choses to noyt read the opening post properly, sees PC vs consoles and jumps to conclusions.
And no, these long list of tings you mention are subjective. And still has nothing to do with what this thread is actually about. I don't get why some PC gamers have to reach far and wide and include things that have no business being in this thread what so ever.Posts like yours and all that you are saying just screams you are someone that seems to have so much to say but alcks the patience to simply understand what is even being discussed.
Scroll up a little, look at any number of posts I have made explaining this very thing (and funny enough only to the PC die hard for some strange reason). Maybe thne you will see just how outta place what you are saying is. Whats really funny is that what this thread is about will also apply even if the only thing we are talking about here are PCs. But the second some see PC vs Consoles they jump to conclusions and start reading arbitrary meanings into comments made.

 



ICStats said:
TheJimbo1234 said:

But when you look at cards of equal price range to the consoles, or factor in the cost of console vs Pcs (ergo a slightly beefier gpu), the gpus still outstrip the consoles. A 280 or 760 easily can play games at 1080p on high/ultra and only cost £150. Within a few months they will be even cheaper....yet the consoles can't.

Full system cost: GTX 760 $210, Core i5 $200, 12GB RAM $120, cheapish motherboard $60, basic Blu-ray drive $60, basic gaming case $50, basic PSU $50, 500GB hard disk $50, Windows 8.1 $120, gaming mouse & keyboard $100+, and optionally wireless game controller $50.  Probably should invest in some AntiVirus as well.

That's $1070+ for an OK gaming setup.  If you start thinking about overclocking then you also have to spend more on parts.

I have a gaming PC - I spend $500 to $1000 upgrading or fixing my PC every other year.

Sure, consoles in the short term might be a bit cheaper, but they have to last you how many years? Then when you factor in the cost of running one, a PC is by far a better choice (cheaper, can do more, far more power etc). Besides casual and social gaming, there is no reason to buy consoles anymore.

Your PC also doesn't get any better over the years unless you buy more upgrades.

And sure, a PC can do more but there are many options for that.  A gaming PC generally means big, noisy, not portable.  So if you want to "do more" you might choose a laptop that is not good for gaming, but is light and portable.

I would liken your above argument to saying that a pick up truck is the only kind of vehicle you need.  A pick up truck is cheaper, can carry a lot more, more power, etc. so there is no reason to buy anything but pick up trucks anymore .

Personally, I use different gadgets for different needs.

Want to play PC games on Ultra?  Get Windows PC with awesome CPU & GPU.
Want to compile shit loads of code fast?  Get a Linux PC with lots of RAM and CPU cores.
Want something for day-to-day that just works stably?  Get a MacBook.
Want to game on your big livingroom TV and A/V system, should be quiet, and work with your Harmony remote?  Get a console!


Thanks for replying, but you have a few things wrong.  First off, no one has 12GB or RAM, you have 2^n amount, not just even numbers. Most people don’t actually bother with Blu-ray as windows doesn't play them, and hell, I've a $20 keyboard that works fine (mouse is a bit more, but not much). Also a 760 isn't ok - it is pretty damn good seeing that it can hit 60 fps on BF4, 1080p, on ultra. Game controller? Unless you are doing hack and slash, most people won't have one, and you can just use AVG for antivirus as long as you don't go on dodgy sites or hit up torrents.

I have a $2000+ PC and I won't touch it for years, and for you to change yours that much is silly, because what do you get from the upgrades? Another 20%-30% fps when you are already well over 60fps? Um, that is utterly pointless (unless you have 144Hz monitor, but that is a luxury rather than needed). As for fixing? You should buy better parts. My old $1000 PC only had its RAM fail after 4 years of brutal gaming and work...and of course that is covered by a lifetime warranty. All your parts should have at least 2 - 5 year warranties with them.

Why do I need my PC to improve? Only after 4+ years did my old PC struggle to play new games at a level I wanted e.g. high or better. But did I need a new one to play new games? Nope. 

As for size and noise? They use to be a problem, but are not any more. My current PC has 5 fans, none go over 17 dBs Also with modern gpu's which are always the noisiest components, many have fan switching modes so they run silent when not under heavy use. Size; Mini-itx ring a bell? You can now get full PC in something smaller than the original Xbox or 360.

 

I do agree that PCs are certainly not always the right choice. If you need to move a lot for work, a laptop or tablet is better. As for code, it depends what code and just how much you are going to do as a gaming rig can now double up pretty well as a workstation with the x99 chipset and the Titan range.

Macs? I would say they are only good for coding with terminal. They are way too pricey for simple day-to-day functions. Yes, they are simple, clean, and relatively robust, but you could easily have a custom PC built for cheaper which lasts longer which should do the same.

 

As for social gaming, you can't beat consoles. I do wonder if SteamOS will change this (micro-itx+ssd), however if no one cares about 1080p at 60 fps (which most people when they are drunk couldn’t see anyway), then a cheap console is a good idea.