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Forums - Gaming - CONSOLEs vs PC

TheJimbo1234 on 04 November 2014
Intrinsic said:
TheJimbo1234 said:

Oh look again, avoiding such a straight forward question.

Did you not read the part in bold? Of course not, or you just want to ignore it. 

Well I think I just proved you're here only to start fights rather than debate.

You referring to this?

What is your point?  Are you defending the points in the OP, wanting people to debate them, or disagreeing with them?

If thats the case,

 

  • MY POINT: Is that if the performance of a game running on PCs are being compared to it running on consoles, then the "spec" of the PC used should match the "spec" of the console its being compared to. 
  • AS FOR THE POINTS IN THE OP: They are there for the sole reason of emphasising the point above. To show that theer are a vast number of different PC hardware classes and how relatively easy it should be finding those that match the specs in a console. Either using the cost of the console as a guide or the hardware inside it. I also hoped to show that there are also very different type of consumers, hoping to point out (what was already obvious) that most people just want to walk in and buy stuff and how they do not attach the kinda reasoning, research or DIY attitude that majority of PC gamers have.
  • AS FOR PPL DEBATING THEM: Thats not really my business. I have not stopped anyone from arguing or debating the points I made in the OP. They after all are just reasons I gave to support the main point I was trying to make. Which again, is that comparisons should be made between hardware that are in the same class.
  • AS FOR WAT THE PC GUYS ARE PUSHING: The PC guys (unless I am mistaken) seem to be saying that the true cost of ownership of a console is not $400. But rather $400+annual sub fees+higher average costs of games+duration of a generation. And as such is in line with more expensive PC hardware. That kinda reasoning (while true depending on perspective) only applies to my argument if my argumnet was in quantifying the Performance:dolar ratio of consoles vs PC. Which is not what I am doing. Because that inherently would factor in a number of variables that is simply impossible to predict and varies from user to user. But one thing that you can gurantee, is how much a person spends over the counter for a console and how much a GPU costs at any point in a gaming generation. If you want me to point out why this kinda reasoning is very inaccurate in relation to hardwae costs I will. Though that has nothing to do with this thread.
Hope that satisfies you. And maybe you understand why I didnt bother explaining all this again. Keep in mind what my main point is here. I don't mind you disputing any other supporting point I made for whatever your reasons are. Just consider how whatever you are saying applies to my main point. And contrary  to what you may think, how you talk doesn't encourage discussion. If anything you are more likely to antagonize than nuture. You should be mindful of the fact that a lot has been said in this thread, its highly likely that I may just not know exactly what question you are asking which is why i sincerely asked you to point me in the right direction. Yet you do not waste time to throw your accusations around. If my inability to keep up with your myriad of questions and how I respond to you somehow irritates or frustrates you, then do try and imagine how talking to you makes me feel considerring I feel you are not even talking about the same thing I am talking about and that I have tried more than once to explain that to you. Yet.... here I am.

 


RIght, here is the issue, but thanks for the clarity;

The specs are compared, and I have said this before. The xbone is 1.3 Tflops, the PS4 is ~1.8, and a high end single chip gpu for a PC is 5.5+....So that right there shows how much better the PC is.

http://gpuboss.com/

Pull up all gpu specs. You can compare everything to the known console specs. Cross reference with price and you can see why PC gamers are unimpressed with consoles.

I have said this before in my first post that PC gpus are miles head of consoles and that very cheap gpus match console specs now. This will only become worse in time.



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Intrinsic on 04 November 2014
TheJimbo1234 said:

RIght, here is the issue, but thanks for the clarity;

The specs are compared, and I have said this before. The xbone is 1.3 Tflops, the PS4 is ~1.8, and a high end single chip gpu for a PC is 5.5+....So that right there shows how much better the PC is.

http://gpuboss.com/

Pull up all gpu specs. You can compare everything to the known console specs. Cross reference with price and you can see why PC gamers are unimpressed with consoles.

I have said this before in my first post that PC gpus are miles head of consoles and that very cheap gpus match console specs now. This will only become worse in time.

And this is exactly why I keep saying you are having a different argument or missing the point entirely. To keep things simple I will only use your response here to try and explain what I mean and what the mix up seems to have been.

You have nicely clearly pointed out the specs of the PS$/XB1. Thank you.

But you went on to say "that right tehre shows how much better the PC is"

That right there is where you are mixing things up, cause you seem to thik this thread has been about how much better a PC is to consoles whereas its not even close to what this thread is about.

Again using your data, then adding some of my own to drive home my point.

  • XB1 GPU: 1.3Tf................A
  • PS4 GPU: 1.8Tf................B
  • R7 265 GPU: 1.8Tf...........C
  • R9 290x GPU: 5.6Tf.........D
Now what I am saying, and what this thread has been about. Is that If a comparison between a game running on consoles (A&B) is being made to a the same game running on PC (C&D) that its only fair that a console system (eg. B) is being compared to the PC system (C) and not to the PC system (D). 
This is because comparing the console with spec (B) to the PC with spec (C) gives an accurate analysis of how similar hardware and most likely very closely priced hardware performs across the two platforms. And how little sense it makes taking the game running on PC hardware (D) (which in itself is hardware in order of magnitudes higher and thus reflected in its price) and comparing that to the game running on console (C).
Mind you, this theory applies accorss the board. Its the very same way it makes little sense comparing PC GPU (C) to Pc GPU (D). No body does that in the PC world. Its just a no brainer that the more expensive (advanced) PC hardwrae will outperform the cheaper/weaker/entry level hardware. SO i do not understand why those same rules do not apply to console vs PC graphic comparisons. And that was the point of this thread.
Its not about which platform is cheaper, more expensive, gamers prefer or don't prefer or all that other stuff. Its about how the performance of a game on different hardware is compared.


sc94597 on 04 November 2014

My $190 (new) gpu (came with three free games) vs. PS4's (equivalent) gpu

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-280X-vs-Radeon-HD-7850

My processor was $60 (pentium G3258 overclocked to 4.5ghz, will upgrade to an i5 Broadwell next year), Motherboard $70, PSU ($40 - 550 watt Corsair), ram ($70 for 2*4gig ddr3), and I had a free student Windows 7 key from my school. My mouse and keyboard I bought a while ago for $25.

$190 + $60 + $70 + $40 + $70 +$60 (hard drive) + $35(case) = $525 USD. With an OS, it would be about $575 USD. I bought off Newegg and there is no sales tax in my state on newegg, so that $525 USD was the total price. In the future Windows 10 will be free for private use, and SteamOS will have better support. So PC gaming will be even cheaper. I could've chosen a cheaper GPU and Motherboard and built a PC comparable to the PS4 for around $450, and this PC would be able to do more than just gaming while the PS4 would be limited to mostly gaming.

So far I've maxed The Evil Within @ 1080p, Skyrim with RealVision ENB, Supersampled @ 59 fps, Dolphin with ENB 1440p downsampled to 1080p (my processor is overclocked to 4.5ghz which is amazing for Dolphin games), and I can play Crysis 3 at a locked 30fps 1080p no drops (45fps unlocked - my processor is a bottleneck for multi-thread dependent games.) I can play any 7th generation game at over 100 fps maxed (if I chose to, I just lock to 60fps.) Additionally, I can edit videos, surf the internet, write programs for school, and watch movies much better than what the consoles can do. My multiplayer is free and my games are cheaper as well. I can play games with my mouse and keyboard, 360 controller, or my wiimote (if I desired.) I can connect my PC to any monitor, television, sound system, etc, etc with no need to buy additional addons. I can modify my games, their graphics, and their gameplay however I want.

To me, it is very clear that gaming PC's have superior value for the dollar.



Intrinsic on 04 November 2014
sc94597 said:

My $190 (new) gpu (came with three free games) vs. PS4's (equivalent) gpu

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-280X-vs-Radeon-HD-7850

My processor was $60 (pentium G3258 overclocked to 4.5ghz, will upgrade to an i5 Broadwell next year), Motherboard $70, PSU ($40 - 550 watt Corsair), ram ($70 for 2*4gig ddr3), and I had a free student Windows 7 key from my school. My mouse and keyboard I bought a while ago for $25.

$190 + $60 + $70 + $40 + $70 +$60 (hard drive) + $35(case) = $525 USD. With an OS, it would be about $575 USD. I bought off Newegg and there is no sales tax in my state on newegg, so that $525 USD was the total price. In the future Windows 10 will be free for private use, and SteamOS will have better support. So PC gaming will be even cheaper. I could've chosen a cheaper GPU and Motherboard and built a PC comparable to the PS4 for around $450, and this PC would be able to do more than just gaming while the PS4 would be limited to mostly gaming.

So far I've maxed The Evil Within @ 1080p, Skyrim with RealVision ENB, Supersampled @ 59 fps, Dolphin with ENB 1440p downsampled to 1080p (my processor is overclocked to 4.5ghz which is amazing for Dolphin games), and I can play Crysis 3 at a locked 30fps 1080p no drops (45fps unlocked - my processor is a bottleneck for multi-thread dependent games.) I can play any 7th generation game at over 100 fps maxed (if I chose to, I just lock to 60fps.) Additionally, I can edit videos, surf the internet, write programs for school, and watch movies much better than what the consoles can do. My multiplayer is free and my games are cheaper as well. I can play games with my mouse and keyboard, 360 controller, or my wiimote (if I desired.) I can connect my PC to any monitor, television, sound system, etc, etc with no need to buy additional addons. I can modify my games, their graphics, and their gameplay however I want.

To me, it is very clear that gaming PC's have superior value for the dollar.

Good for you. That doesn't necesarily have anything to do with this thread though. And "value for dollar" is such a subjective term. Ah well, thats a different matter. 



Pemalite on 04 November 2014
deskpro2k3 said:
glorious god gamers don't compare such things. we're above those that game on only one hardware.

The PC is the one Platform to rule them all, One Platform to find them,
One Platform to bring them all and in the darkness emulate them.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

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HollyGamer on 04 November 2014
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

you summed up and agree :D, compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 how many games can be played from 2007 until 2013 on GTX8800?

Look how many games on PC 2007 onward some games require some upgrade here and there to run, even small upgrade, for examples games like Call of Duty Ghost, Wolf stain, Splinter cell and etc.

Yup you need money to buy good parts on PC and time and effort to search in Internet, asking some friend, and knowledge so no one able to fool you.

like i said different type of people who played on console and PC, and thus comparing them directly is a bit silly and comparing the hardware is even more stupid.

The principle is more like PC (General PC) is more of like Swiss army knife and console is more of cooking knife, but dedicated gaming PC is more of the expensive Swiss army knife with the capability and also flexibility but the price also far exceeding both knife.


If you wan't to get technical... I never bought into the Geforce 8xxx series, it's nVidia. ;)

However... If we were to for instance take my 6-7 year old PC with it's Core 2 Quad, 8Gb of DDR2... It's not going to be setting anyones world on fire in the performance stakes.

However, fast forward multiple years, I dropped a Radeon 6570 into it for $30.
Suddenly I am able to play pretty much all console multi-platforms just fine again, even today I am throwing games at it like Defense Grid 2 and Battlefield 4 at high at 720P/30fps without a problem, obviously the Core 2 Quad is heavily overclocked and I didn't leave the low-profile Radeon 6570 clocks un-touched either.
But for $30? Can you really argue with that? Considering you can pick up a Core 2 Quad from recyclers now essentially for free...

To put that into perspective... That is less than the price of a console controller.
If I wanted to push for higher resolutions, then bumping that $30 graphics card to a $200 Radeon R9 270 would be the better idea (Or a Second hand Radeon 7850/7870 for about $100 AUD), then you could push for 1080P in the majority of titles, Mantle would help massively for a low-end rig like this.

Upgrading a PC is pretty darn easy, AMD even made a video of a monkey doing it, websites like toms hardware, guru3D and Anandtech can give you a good idea of what to get with their "Best cards" at various price points.
If you don't feel confident doing it yourself, any reputable computer store is usually more than happy to do it for you.

However, this isn't the norm, but you do have the choice and choice is never a bad thing.

It's easy very easy i say, i was once there in PC community. But at the same time you are linked to some kind responsibility with hardware management, OS problem, hardware maintenance, and the difficulty of choice on upgrading hardware, at the same time you need money to upgrade some part in once every 2- 3 years or not or else you wont be able to upgrade to a new mobo or a new cpu latter on.

 

 "However, this isn't the norm, but you do have the choice and choice is never a bad thing." Choice is never a bad thing indeed but is difficult to have a hundred of choice, that's why many people just buy the console straight up from store and pick and play.

 

So last post i mentioned about the different between PC and console it's like an Swiss army knife (PC) and  affordable cooking knife (console)

 

I am going to give another example, so PC is a bit of buy your own food on supermarket and cooked for your self and console it's like go to your own favorite restaurant with out any effort. The result from cooking by our self it's more satisfying but it need a lot of work to do and more expensive ingredient and knowledge, but hey you can hire a chef,  but require more money for that. In the favorite food restaurant you just ordered with the same quality and the same product all the way, you just eat it and be happy for what food they served. 



HollyGamer on 04 November 2014
Pemalite said:
deskpro2k3 said:
glorious god gamers don't compare such things. we're above those that game on only one hardware.

The PC is the one Platform to rule them all, One Platform to find them,
One Platform to bring them all and in the darkness emulate them.

He is right tho, you need almost every platform to become god gamers, but god gamers is only for people who have a lot spare time, and money, or your life really in to gaming (i don't mind if our world is in gaming Industry like journalist, game developer etc)

 

Even if we  own a  PC doesn't guaranteed us able to play many platform for example PS2 emulation took very long time to make it happen on PC, i bet PS3 will be more difficult to emulate , PS4 maybe will get emulated easily but also need to wait for it or maybe need more time (like Xbox original) even thou PS4 and Xbox Original made from modified PC part, the way the code and the system work different form PC. and also you need a more then a standard PC.



Pemalite on 04 November 2014
HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said:
deskpro2k3 said:
glorious god gamers don't compare such things. we're above those that game on only one hardware.

The PC is the one Platform to rule them all, One Platform to find them,
One Platform to bring them all and in the darkness emulate them.

He is right tho, you need almost every platform to become god gamers, but god gamers is only for people who have a lot spare time, and money, or your life really in to gaming (i don't mind if our world is in gaming Industry like journalist, game developer etc)

 

Even if we  own a  PC doesn't guaranteed us able to play many platform for example PS2 emulation took very long time to make it happen on PC, i bet PS3 will be more difficult to emulate , PS4 maybe will get emulated easily but also need to wait for it or maybe need more time (like Xbox original) even thou PS4 and Xbox Original made from modified PC part, the way the code and the system work different form PC. and also you need a more then a standard PC.

Playstation 3 emulation has already begun.

I present you: rspc3.

Xbox 360 emulation has started also with Xenia.

Still early days, but, eventually all your games are belong to us. (I wonder how many memes I can throw into this thread?)

HollyGamer said:

at the same time you need money to upgrade some part in once every 2- 3 years or not or else you wont be able to upgrade to a new mobo or a new cpu latter on.

No offense, but that is a *really* crap argument.
You have to pay money just to access online features on these consoles, which over a few years can be the cost of an upgrade for a PC anyway.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

HollyGamer on 04 November 2014

Guy's and girl who comparing tera flop per tera flops and memory per memory you guys need to know how the system work 

 

  teraflop is not determine factor to make game beautiful, console and PC work differently.

Some games need more tera flop on PC but require less tera flop in console.

You need to know PC have separate hardware attached on it and console is unifying all the system under one board to make it easy, efficient, and better on all result including cost efficient and power management (heat management also included), and also console games was coded for once variant and PC was coded for all variant available on the market and thus make optimization on good card is not maximal.



HollyGamer on 04 November 2014
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said:
deskpro2k3 said:
glorious god gamers don't compare such things. we're above those that game on only one hardware.

The PC is the one Platform to rule them all, One Platform to find them,
One Platform to bring them all and in the darkness emulate them.

He is right tho, you need almost every platform to become god gamers, but god gamers is only for people who have a lot spare time, and money, or your life really in to gaming (i don't mind if our world is in gaming Industry like journalist, game developer etc)

 

Even if we  own a  PC doesn't guaranteed us able to play many platform for example PS2 emulation took very long time to make it happen on PC, i bet PS3 will be more difficult to emulate , PS4 maybe will get emulated easily but also need to wait for it or maybe need more time (like Xbox original) even thou PS4 and Xbox Original made from modified PC part, the way the code and the system work different form PC. and also you need a more then a standard PC.

Playstation 3 emulation has already begun.

I present you: rspc3.

Xbox 360 emulation has started also with Xenia.

Still early days, but, eventually all your games are belong to us. (I wonder how many memes I can throw into this thread?)

emulation has already begin since PS1 era, but you need have to wait more then a generation to make the game work flawesly on PC

all games is belong to every PC, but many enjoy the games without waiting, and investing.  Heck i even have my own console PS2 but then i even have PCSX2 in my gaming laptop LOl.