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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shinen is using triple buffering for the gbuffer on Fast Racing Neo, bandwidth is not a problem

fatslob-:O on 26 October 2014
megafenix said:


Since mobile harware is pretty limited specially in bandwidth disposition, gpu maker like amd and other have designed tile based architectures to overcome the problem

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

This post is a good example of what you don't know what your talking ...

First off, AMD wasn't the one to have designed Tile Based GPUs. Second of all, that solution came from Imagination Technologies who was at the time known as VideoLogic ... 



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megafenix on 26 October 2014
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:


Since mobile harware is pretty limited specially in bandwidth disposition, gpu maker like amd and other have designed tile based architectures to overcome the problem

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

This post is a good example of what you don't know what your talking ...

First off, AMD wasn't the one to have designed Tile Based GPUs. Second of all, that solution came from Imagination Technologies who was at the time known as VideoLogic ... 

??

when did i say amd was the one that came with the solution?

"

Since mobile harware is pretty limited specially in bandwidth disposition, gpu makers like amd and others have designed tile based architectures to overcome the problem

"

 

seems its you the one that doesnt know whats talking about, never said amd developed the solution just that amd and other gpu makers like nvidia and such have made gpus based on tiled based architecture to overcome this limitation on the mobile hardwraes



fatslob-:O on 26 October 2014
megafenix said:

??

when did i say amd was the one that came with the solution?

"

Since mobile harware is pretty limited specially in bandwidth disposition, gpu makers like amd and others have designed tile based architectures to overcome the problem

"

 

seems its you the one that doesnt know whats talking about

Your still wrong no matter how you dislike it ... 

Newsflash, AMD has NEVER designed a tile based GPU before ... 



megafenix on 26 October 2014
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:

??

when did i say amd was the one that came with the solution?

"

Since mobile harware is pretty limited specially in bandwidth disposition, gpu makers like amd and others have designed tile based architectures to overcome the problem

"

 

seems its you the one that doesnt know whats talking about

Your still wrong no matter how you dislike it ... 

Newsflash, AMD has NEVER designed a tile based GPU before ... 


you still wrong no matter how you dislike it, go read again before making assumptions, never said it was amd the one who invented the solution and if you at least read the article you will see that AMD has indeed made some tiled based gpus(ATI is part of AMD)

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

"

Who Uses TBR?

• Microsoft

• Talisman

• Imagination Technologies

• KYRO and KYRO II (Desktop PC)

• PowerVR CLX2 (Sega Dreamcast)

• PowerVR MBX (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• PowerVR SGX (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

• AMD

• Imageon 2380 (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• Xenos (Xbox 360)

• Z430 and Z460 (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

"



fatslob-:O on 26 October 2014
megafenix said:


you still wrong no matter how you dislike it, go read again before making assumptions, never said it was amd the one who invented the solution

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

"

Who Uses TBR?

• Microsoft

• Talisman

• Imagination Technologies

• KYRO and KYRO II (Desktop PC)

• PowerVR CLX2 (Sega Dreamcast)

• PowerVR MBX (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• PowerVR SGX (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

• AMD

• Imageon 2380 (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• Xenos (Xbox 360)

• Z430 and Z460 (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

"

There's a huge difference in what AMD is trying to imply ... 

The GPUs are "tile based" in a sense that framebuffers can be split up for the purpose of multipass rendering but the rasterization system between an AMD GPU and a PowerVR GPU is entirely different hence AMD GPU's not being tile based in the strictest requirements! 



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megafenix on 26 October 2014
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:


you still wrong no matter how you dislike it, go read again before making assumptions, never said it was amd the one who invented the solution

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

"

Who Uses TBR?

• Microsoft

• Talisman

• Imagination Technologies

• KYRO and KYRO II (Desktop PC)

• PowerVR CLX2 (Sega Dreamcast)

• PowerVR MBX (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• PowerVR SGX (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

• AMD

• Imageon 2380 (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• Xenos (Xbox 360)

• Z430 and Z460 (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

"

There's a huge difference in what AMD is trying to imply ... 

The GPUs are "tile based" in a sense that framebuffers can be split up for the purpose of multipass rendering but the rasterization system between an AMD GPU and a PowerVR GPU is entirely different hence AMD GPU's not being tile based in the strictest requirements! 


well, thats what you say and thats what Maurice Ribble from AMD says, so who should i believe?

on prupose

here is another intersting note

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile

"

AMD Brings Xbox 360 Graphics Mobile

AMD is becoming less and less a name associated with exciting new products, but that doesn't mean the company can't still wow us with technology every now and again. Today's development is what can only be considered a rival to nVidia's Tegra (read: APX 2500) and Intel's Silverthorne (now under the Atom branding) platforms, is called the AMD Z430 graphics core and sees the translation of Xbox 360-style graphics to the mobile phone.

Z430 is only based on Xenos, rather than being a direct translation but that's to be expected given the die size of the Xbox chip. Z430 does use the same Unified Shader Model and manages to be the first mobile GPU to garner OpenGL ES 2.0 certification. OpenGL ES 2.0 (which, incidentally, is supported by the PS3) is a subset of the full OpenGL spec designed for embedded devices, such as mobile phones, PDAs and games consoles. A few desktop games these days use OpenGL (Quake Wars is the best recent example) which makes porting them to these smaller platforms than much easier.
Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile#20lBWs1GtOQdVtLR.99

"

 

this too

http://bastianzuehlke.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/mobile-gpus-architectures/

"

Adreno
The Adreno architecture is based on AMD Z430 of the Imageon Family which was introduced by ATI in 2002. Based on what is stated in [2] and [3] it seems that Adreno is rendering tile-based but each tile in a IMR kind of way. The HW seems to be optimised for triangle stripes, which very likely causes a big load on the CPU. 

"



fatslob-:O on 26 October 2014
megafenix said:


well, thats what you say and thats what Maurice Ribble from AMD says, so who should i believe?

on prupose

here is another intersting note

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile

"

AMD Brings Xbox 360 Graphics Mobile

AMD is becoming less and less a name associated with exciting new products, but that doesn't mean the company can't still wow us with technology every now and again. Today's development is what can only be considered a rival to nVidia's Tegra (read: APX 2500) and Intel's Silverthorne (now under the Atom branding) platforms, is called the AMD Z430 graphics core and sees the translation of Xbox 360-style graphics to the mobile phone.

Z430 is only based on Xenos, rather than being a direct translation but that's to be expected given the die size of the Xbox chip. Z430 does use the same Unified Shader Model and manages to be the first mobile GPU to garner OpenGL ES 2.0 certification. OpenGL ES 2.0 (which, incidentally, is supported by the PS3) is a subset of the full OpenGL spec designed for embedded devices, such as mobile phones, PDAs and games consoles. A few desktop games these days use OpenGL (Quake Wars is the best recent example) which makes porting them to these smaller platforms than much easier.
Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile#20lBWs1GtOQdVtLR.99

"

 

this too

http://bastianzuehlke.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/mobile-gpus-architectures/

"

Adreno
The Adreno architecture is based on AMD Z430 of the Imageon Family which was introduced by ATI in 2002. Based on what is stated in [2] and [3] it seems that Adreno is rendering tile-based but each tile in a IMR kind of way. The HW seems to be optimised for triangle stripes, which very likely causes a big load on the CPU. 

"

With the correct interpretation what Maurice Ribble from AMD says is true but you have a long way to go before understanding these things ...

The Xbox 360 uses a depth buffer to perform hidden surface removal whereas PowerVR bins, sorts, and ray casts to apply hidden surface removal. The guy in the blog even says that Adreno is an immediate mode rendering GPU which uses a depth buffer much like the Xbox 360 so calling it tile based is a stretch since it's rasterization system doesn't even remotely resemble to PowerVR's ... 



megafenix on 26 October 2014
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:


well, thats what you say and thats what Maurice Ribble from AMD says, so who should i believe?

on prupose

here is another intersting note

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile

"

AMD Brings Xbox 360 Graphics Mobile

AMD is becoming less and less a name associated with exciting new products, but that doesn't mean the company can't still wow us with technology every now and again. Today's development is what can only be considered a rival to nVidia's Tegra (read: APX 2500) and Intel's Silverthorne (now under the Atom branding) platforms, is called the AMD Z430 graphics core and sees the translation of Xbox 360-style graphics to the mobile phone.

Z430 is only based on Xenos, rather than being a direct translation but that's to be expected given the die size of the Xbox chip. Z430 does use the same Unified Shader Model and manages to be the first mobile GPU to garner OpenGL ES 2.0 certification. OpenGL ES 2.0 (which, incidentally, is supported by the PS3) is a subset of the full OpenGL spec designed for embedded devices, such as mobile phones, PDAs and games consoles. A few desktop games these days use OpenGL (Quake Wars is the best recent example) which makes porting them to these smaller platforms than much easier.
Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/AMD-Brings-Xbox-360-Graphics-Mobile#20lBWs1GtOQdVtLR.99

"

 

this too

http://bastianzuehlke.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/mobile-gpus-architectures/

"

Adreno
The Adreno architecture is based on AMD Z430 of the Imageon Family which was introduced by ATI in 2002. Based on what is stated in [2] and [3] it seems that Adreno is rendering tile-based but each tile in a IMR kind of way. The HW seems to be optimised for triangle stripes, which very likely causes a big load on the CPU. 

"

With the correct interpretation what Maurice Ribble from AMD says is true but you have a long way to go before understanding these things ...

The Xbox 360 uses a depth buffer to perform hidden surface removal whereas PowerVR bins, sorts, and ray casts to apply hidden surface removal. The guy in the blog even says that Adreno is an immediate mode rendering GPU which uses a depth buffer much like the Xbox 360 so calling it tile based is a stretch since it's rasterization system doesn't even remotely resemble to PowerVR's ... 


thanks for the info, but how does that deny what  that guy from AMD is saying(as long as is tiled based it what matters doesnt it)?

you have along way to be honest you know, i dont want your word, i want believable sources of what you are implying



fatslob-:O on 26 October 2014
megafenix said:


thanks for the info, but how does that deny what  that guy from AMD is saying?

you have along way to be honest you know, i dont want your word, i want believable sources of what you are implying

It doesn't deny what the guy from AMD was saying but rather it rejects your interpretation ...

This guy even outright says that the Xbox 360 is using a depth buffer rather than the scheme employed by PowerVR. 

AMD has Never designed a tile based GPU, it doesn't get anymore simpler than that ...



megafenix on 26 October 2014
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:


thanks for the info, but how does that deny what  that guy from AMD is saying?

you have along way to be honest you know, i dont want your word, i want believable sources of what you are implying

It doesn't deny what the guy from AMD was saying but rather it rejects your interpretation ...

This guy even outright says that the Xbox 360 is using a depth buffer rather than the scheme employed by PowerVR. 

AMD has Never designed a tile based GPU, it doesn't get anymore simpler than that ...


really?

what intrerpretation can you make from this?

http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/gdc2008_ribble_maurice_TileBasedGpus.pdf

"

Who Uses TBR?

• Microsoft

• Talisman

• Imagination Technologies

• KYRO and KYRO II (Desktop PC)

• PowerVR CLX2 (Sega Dreamcast)

• PowerVR MBX (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• PowerVR SGX (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

• AMD

• Imageon 2380 (OpenGL ES 1.x)

• Xenos (Xbox 360)

• Z430 and Z460 (targets OpenGL ES 2.0)

"

 

o well, you dont believ that guy right?

how abou these guys then?

http://www.freescale.com.cn/cstory/ftf/2009/download/aut_f0265.pdf