By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Why would Nintendo make another Console after so many failed attempts?

Shadow1980 said:
Soundwave said:

 

I think Nintendo fans sometimes really understate the Wii U's problems. This isn't a "oh it just had a bad launch". The PS4/X1 didn't exactly have great software libraries from launch either, the difference is people actually wanted those systems. Pikmin 3 coming out 2-3 months earlier wouldn't have saved the Wii U.

What kind of games do people typically buy Nintendo systems to play? Nintendo games, obviously, since they have only token third-party support (Just Dance was the only third-party game to have any sort of impact on the Wii, and it's certainly not AAA fare). What first party games did it have by the end of Q3 2013? New Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land, and Pikmin 3.

Now what kind of games do people buy PlayStation and Xbox systems to play? All the big third-party AAA games, as well as some AAA exclusives. They had CoD: Ghosts, ACIV: Black Flag, Battlefield 4, NFS: Rivals, and all the major sports games (FIFA, NBA 2K, & Madden) at launch, with Killzone 4 & Knack for the PS4 and Forza 5, Ryse, & Dead Rising 3 for the XBO being the big launch games. So right at launch they outclassed the Wii U in the software department. In Q1, they got MGSV: Ground Zeroes, Thief, and Tomb Raider: The Definitive Edition, with Titanfall and Infamous: Second Son being the big exclusives. Last quarter they got Watch Dogs, Wolfenstein, Child of Light, and Murdered: Soul Suspect from third parties, while the PS4 got MLB 14 and FFIV: A Realm Reborn as exclusives. This quarter we got Destiny, Diablo III, Madden, and FIFA 15 from third parties, with The Last of Us: Remastered and Forza Horizon 2 being the big exclusives. The Wii U wasn't even in the same ballpark as the PS4 and XBO, so to discount the big first-party drought for a system that, like its predecessor, was utterly dependent on first-party output to bolster its library is to be more than a bit disingenuous in saying why the Wii U is struggling. Once lost, momentum is almost impossible to rebuild.

Nintendo just made a system no one asked for.

Or maybe they made a system that was poorly marketed, had a gimmick that was a tough sell (largely a corollary of the first point), and didn't have the games it needed. I believe that a system's performance is explained primarily by games, pricing, and marketing. History shows that systems that suceed on those merits succeed in sales.

If they want to make a system third parties will develop for then they basically will have to swallow their pride and let third parties basically tell them which GPU/CPU/hardware features they want, something I think Nintendo is still too stubborn to do. 

If they could release a Playstation 5 (as in FIVE, not FOUR) class system approved by 3rd parties and get a 1-2 year headstart, maybe they could gain some traction there, but I don't think they want to do this.

I never said they will go this route. But I am saying they should go this route. It's a safer bet than going for a Wii 3. They ought to know by now how important big AAA third-party games are to fill in the gaps between exclusives, especially if you end up with a gap that lasts 8 months. I think that had the Wii U being a conventional system on par with the PS4 and XBO, it would be selling quite well right now as it would have the third parties developing for it. If you build it, they will come, third parties and consumers both. It wouldn't have been another Wii sales-wise, but I think if it had Assassin's Creed, CoD, Destiny, Final Fantasy, the inevitable GTAVI, and other popular third-party games to complement its first-party output, it could have been competing quite well again the PS4 and maybe could have pushed the XBO to near-irrelevance even in the U.S., which has historically been relatively Nintendo-friendly.

I don't think Nintendo has the capability to support two machines anymore. It's just blatantly obvious this generation. Having two distinct platforms especially with rising development costs (even for portables, the days when they could just port SNES games or use N64 level graphics are long over, handheld games require a lot of time and dev power now too) is an unworkable situation for Nintendo. Even Sony really can't make it work, they can't support the PS4 and Vita simultaneously, they basically need third parties to carry the Vita. 

It's not 1989 anymore, it's not even 2006, supporting two hardware platforms today requires tremendously more resources.

No, you simply assume they can't handle two systems. Comparing the situation to Sony's situation is a non sequitur. The Vita isn't struggling because Sony couldn't afford to make it work. The Vita was just a big misstep. For one it is too expensive (esp. when accounting for hidden costs like memory cards; at launch the system + a 32GB card would run you $400, extreme for a handheld even when accounting for inflation), not to mention it was poorly marketed (did it ever even have any commercials?). I've also heard some argue that it was possibly too big of a leap in power for one generation (it's a total beast spec-wise compared to the 3DS), and like the Neo Geo was too powerful for its own good (the Neo Geo priced itself out of contention as well due to being far more powerful than the SNES and Genesis).




I don't assume anything. I have the last 15 years to look at. They can't handle two systems. No single publisher in the world can make 22-24 good games in a year. Not Sony. Not MS. Not EA. Not Activision. Not Nintendo. 

Not with modern game development, assuming in your scenario you want yet another Nintendo console which will be at minimum in the range of a PS4 in horsepower and another handheld which will have to be Vita-caliber at least. Nintendo simply does not have the manpower to support two platforms like that. They can't even release games with PS3/360 style graphics on time. 

Even on the Wii/DS ... if you really look at those machines they would generally only support one machine at a time ... when they were releasing a lot of Wii software the DS had a downturn in releases and vice versa. What made it less noticable was that evergreen casual titles like Wii Fit and Nintendogs lessened the need for steady releases and Nintendo could cheat a bit there because the Wii was a marginal upgrade from the GCN, not requiring a great deal of added resources (not only that but they padded their first year of Wii release with repurposed GameCube games ... remove Twilight Princess, Super Paper Mario, and Fire Emblem from the Wii's year one and it's a very mediocre looking lineup). 

And third parties aren't going to do sh*t for Nintendo. They blew it with the Wii U, no one is going to give them the benefit of the doubt next time, most third parties would rather take a chance on smartphone games than Nintendo again. Beyond that, I think Nintendo just will never make the type of machine that is basically the one third parties want. They cannot help but being proud and stubborn on certain things, I think it runs deep throughout the company's aging board of directors, starting right on up from Iwata and Miyamoto. 

They will never "bend" to what third parties, especially those foreign Western third parties want. In fact I think Nintendo's coporate culture at this point has pretty much evolved to automatically doing/championing the opposite of whatever Sony/MS do. If Sony says VR and streaming are the future, expect Nintendo to (predictably) be frosty to those ideas. 



Around the Network

I was asking the same... many attempt?

and btw gaming as we know it exist because of Nintendo... that's why they should never stop making consoles and games!



Switch!!!

zero129 said:
Captain_Tom said:
amak11 said:
Captain_Tom said:
I think the fusion idea is a good one for the simple reason the Nintendo doesn't have enough games to split between two consoles as long as they have relatively bad 3rd party support. If they focused on one system they could easily pump out 4+ big exclusives a year.

The only problem I have with the hybrid idea is that I doubt they can make a console as strong as current gen while also being portable (For a reasonable price of course). Perhaps in about 2 years the tech will be their but they would still be over a generation behind the PS5 in performance. Then again, maybe that will be enough for them...


This year, big NIntendo exclusives. 

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

Mario Kart 8

Fatal Frame V (I'm hoping this comes over)

Smash Bros

Hyrule Warriors

Bayonetta 2 (with 1)

Pokemon 

Professor Layton

Ace Attorney (at least on the console side)

Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney 

Mario Golf

 

Hell, I would argue they are showing the rest of the industry how to properly price DLC passes (20 dollars for a years worth of content for Hyrule Warriors, and 12 for Mario Kart 8). 


The bolded games are the ones I consider big excluesives.  The rest are simply exclusives that supliment the lack of good 3rd party support.  Notice how your list is split between two systems?   Also keep in mind this list is not indicative of an average year for Nintendo.

 

If anything you cemented my stance that they can only support one system effectively.  It is becoming more and more clear every year that if Nintendo truly wants to cling to this business plan of -  "You must buy our inferior hardware if you want to play our specual games!";  then have to make it so Nintendo fans only need one console to play their "special" games.

Exactly!, plus with the fusion mostly being a mobile platform they can use that as an excuse for why its not as powerful as the other consoles but is really powerful in the mobile space and people would be happy with that i think since it would solve the problem of Nintendo getting backlash for making such weak hardware. Lets face it when it comes to power they are never going to be able to catch up to their competitors now as they have been a gen behind for the last 2 gens and that would be acceptible for Handhelds but not home consoles..

Ok good to know we are on the same page.  I wasn't quite sure what you were sayin' there ;)



zero129 said:

Even in the handheld space Nintendos market from DS to 3DS has gotton smaller it seems.


This is a fallacy of using exceptions as the rule of the norm; no sane individual would say that what the DS did was normal or a generally applicable goal post.

Please stop.



amak11 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
amak11 said:
Captain_Tom said:
I think the fusion idea is a good one for the simple reason the Nintendo doesn't have enough games to split between two consoles as long as they have relatively bad 3rd party support. If they focused on one system they could easily pump out 4+ big exclusives a year.

The only problem I have with the hybrid idea is that I doubt they can make a console as strong as current gen while also being portable (For a reasonable price of course). Perhaps in about 2 years the tech will be their but they would still be over a generation behind the PS5 in performance. Then again, maybe that will be enough for them...


This year, big NIntendo exclusives. 

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze

Mario Kart 8

Fatal Frame V (I'm hoping this comes over)

Smash Bros

Hyrule Warriors

Bayonetta 2 (with 1)

Pokemon 

Professor Layton

Ace Attorney (at least on the console side)

Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney 

Mario Golf

 

Hell, I would argue they are showing the rest of the industry how to properly price DLC passes (20 dollars for a years worth of content for Hyrule Warriors, and 12 for Mario Kart 8). 

Out of those I'd only say the bolded are 'big exclusives'. The others are smaller games that aren't going to have anywhere near as much impact.

Comes down to opinion in the end. 


No it doesn't.  Not in terms of game sales or system movers.



Around the Network

So... Will Fusion be a portable and dockable Ouya?



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


maybe because they get a lucky shot again?



Vena said:
zero129 said:

Even in the handheld space Nintendos market from DS to 3DS has gotton smaller it seems.


This is a fallacy of using exceptions as the rule of the norm; no sane individual would say that what the DS did was normal or a generally applicable goal post.

Please stop.


To be honest the GBA probably would've sold 120 million or so if Nintendo had not discontinued it so early. Not exactly DS numbers, but not that far off either. 



zero129 said:

So why do you think Nintendo would make another console? (If you do think they will, if you think they shouldnt you can also post why).

Wouldnt it be much better for them to make the rumored "Fusion" Handheld Console hybrid? would Nintendo not be more successful and make more money by doing this? also wouldnt it be better for Nintendo devs to focus all their dev time on one platform getting what they can out of it?.

also (Judging by other Nintendo handheld sales) if it sells well enough and outsells the other consoles Nintendo can still say they are winning since it will be a console also in a way..

Nintendo has always made a profit on the Nintendo home console. Don't quote Michael Pachter for the love of god. Love yourself.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
zero129 said:

So why do you think Nintendo would make another console? (If you do think they will, if you think they shouldnt you can also post why).

Wouldnt it be much better for them to make the rumored "Fusion" Handheld Console hybrid? would Nintendo not be more successful and make more money by doing this? also wouldnt it be better for Nintendo devs to focus all their dev time on one platform getting what they can out of it?.

also (Judging by other Nintendo handheld sales) if it sells well enough and outsells the other consoles Nintendo can still say they are winning since it will be a console also in a way..

Nintendo has always made a profit on the Nintendo home console. Don't quote Michael Pachter for the love of god. Love yourself.

Far easier to do that when games had GameCube sized budgets and a "big" game could be made with 40 people if need be. 

The GameCube also had a lot of third party support whereas Nintendo's relationship with third parties today has completely fallen apart so that means they're not making a lot of money off licensing fees anymore. 

Next year we're looking likely at not even ten third party games for the entire year (retail release). The GameCube would get 10-15 third party games in a month sometimes. 

Even if that copy of Barbie's Dreamhouse or whatever for GameCube (lol) didn't do squat, Nintendo gets $10 of every physical copy you see on a store shelf. When third party support gets near to nill like the Wii U is, that revenue source dries up real fast. 

Nintendo also said after the GameCube that they weren't in the business of selling a console that only sold about 20 million consoles and they were very dissapointed with that. So I have to imagine they're not happy at all with the Wii U and probably never will be.