That opening of 30k was only Japan, and it was only at 52,203 there by the end of 2013 according to Media Create.  So I'm not sure how that helps his argument.  It was also bundled in the west.

You can't ignore the widespread Wind Waker bundle.

Thanks for posting. Hadn't seen the top 1000 for last year.

I'm going to stop you right there, because you've made multiple fatal errors in logic right here.

First of all, Nintendo's IPs often have much darker tones hiding within them. For a more obvious example, see Majora's Mask... but many others have underlying darkness.

Second of all, fanbases are capable of enjoying a broad variety of games, and Nintendo fans raised on Nintendo IPs are capable of enjoying other styles of games, too. This is especially true when you consider that Nintendo fans grow older, just like everybody else.

Third of all, even if none of the above were true, it is possible for Nintendo consoles to appeal to people other than Nintendo fans.

It's kind of laughable, how people like you will deride Nintendo for not appealing to the kinds of audience that play on Sony and MS systems, and then when Nintendo does so, you mock them for wasting their effort. Make up your mind - should Nintendo be broadening their fanbase, or should they be catering more intensely on the fans they already have?

What's "kind of silly" is coming into a thread about a Nintendo game selling well, purely to mock the idea of the game's existence.

A few Nintendo games have darker themes to be but they are few and far in between. The average Harry Potter movie/book is darker and has more romantic/sexual tension than your average Nintendo game, Nintendo still skews an awful lot like a 1950s/60s Walt Disney. 

Fanbases are capable of enjoying a broad variety of games, but on Nintendo platforms that seems far less evident, likely because over time the Nintendo fans that were more prone to buy a wider variety of content (like those who would buy Turok or Star Wars or NBA Courtside or GoldenEye on the N64) have been snatched up by Microsoft or Sony as Nintendo has kind of let those two have free reign over that style of gaming. 

Nintendo does need to broaden their fanbase. So even despite Bayonetta 2 (probably) bombing I hope they continue with the IP and greenlight Bayo 3 for Fusion or whatever their next platform is. Unfortunately though I doubt they will do this. 

That said they need to have a really frank and honest discussion within their ranks about why they aren't appealling to this audience, how they can change it, and what efforts need to be made. Because you can't just throw a game like this onto the market and think "well now the hardcore audience is going to support us". There has to be some kind of concerted, well mapped out long term strategy that includes marketing. Because Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, even Xenoblade are likely to suffer a similar fate.

One of the things I would say is the gap between Bayonetta and the average Nintendo IP is too large right now. You need something that's in between a pink marshmallow and a stripper witch with dual wielding handguns to cultivate an audience that's comfortable between the two. GoldenEye and Star Wars did that well on the N64, they were games/IP that appealled to adults without "soccer mom" freaking out over what her kid was playing if she ever walked in on them playing it. What's Nintendo's concept of what 'family entertainment' is is very outdated. Nintendo still thinks that Mickey Mouse is the formula for a character that everyone in the family can enjoy. 

But that's really not true anymore. You force a family to go watch a Mickey Mouse movie and odds are mom/dad/older teenager brother-sister are going to be less than thrilled. "Family" entertainment today that truly appeals to all parts of the family is things like Marvel (Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, Iron Man), Pirates of the Caribbean, even Harry Potter does it better than Nintendo does anymore. You can have whimsy and fantasy and fun in games, but I think Nintendo needs to understand they need to move a little out of their comfort zone and give older players a little more to chew on if they really want to build a more diverse fanbase. 

And yet, your previous post involved you mocking Nintendo for moving out of their comfort zone and giving older players a little more to chew on...

They need to be more nuanced in their approach here though that's all I'm saying. 

If I'm running a family-friendly TV station, but I want teenager/older viewers, having some that's borderline pornographic all of the sudden is going to be seen as confusing to a lot of people because it doesn't fit the mold of what people expect from my station. 

Nintendo needs to understand they need to have some "bridge" titles, games that are darker than the Zelda series, but not so dark/violent that they seem compltely out of place on the platform. Then you can start to cultivate an audience and that will help games like Bayonetta. 

As is though unfortunately they likely are going to see a lot of flops. 

I think Nintendo needs to decide too ... are they a family company or are they going to move real resources to cultivating an audience for games like Bayo 2 and DT and Xenoblade. Are they willing to spend marketing dollars? Are they willing to be patient and build an audience base? Are they willing to engage with Western 2nd parties again? You can't jut release one "hardcore violent" game every 8-12 months and think there's going to be an audience for that. 

Nintendo should have made Bayonetta a character in Smash. Give her similar moves to the ones in the game (at least visually)

It should have been a free day1 DLC that at the same time hints at Bayonetta2 being a WiiU game.  Like having a third of the main menu dedicated to advertising of this DLC character the first 3 times you start the game. (So she does not get oveooked i the huge rooster)

That would have helped. It would be practically free advertising.

Let me guess, Bayonetta 2 is in bad luck same place release date with earlier SMB 3DS. Yeah, Nintendo is just.... I dunno.

Oh, they need some bridge titles? Like Hyrule Warriors, Monster Hunter, ZombiU? Like their effort to get Resident Evil on Wii and on 3DS? Like their funding of Devil's Third? Like Xenoblade? Like The Last Story? Like Pandora's Tower? Like their support of Tekken Tag Tournament? Or how about games like Twilight Princess? The entire Metroid series? Have you noticed the feeling around Kid Icarus?

I think you're lacking a nuanced understanding of the situation. What's more, your assertion that you have to somehow gradually adjust your audience over is just plain wrong - the audience is made up of people who buy the system. People interested in Bayonetta 2 will buy a Wii U for Bayonetta 2. They then need some other titles to interest them alongside it - you know, like Hyrule Warriors, Devil's Third, Smash Bros (let's admit it - most Bayonetta fans would probably enjoy Smash irrespective of graphical design), and in the case of Japan, Fatal Frame. Some people who already own a system for a game like Super Mario 3D World will also buy other games (I'd probably fit well into that category - games like Mario are the ones I bought the system for, while games like Bayonetta are an added perk), and a transition can certainly help that... but that's not changing the audience, that's broadening the appeal within the audience. If Nintendo is stuck in a "for kids" image, a slow, gradual transition isn't going to fix that. They need a shock and awe approach of emphasising that high quality, dark and edgy titles are on their system.

People like you spend a lot of time criticising Nintendo for their supposedly "kid-centric" approach to gaming... but you wilfully ignore their broad variety of non-kid-friendly titles that they've always had. It's where games like Geist and Eternal Darkness came from. It's where games like Disaster and Sin & Punishment came from. Fire Emblem and Earthbound are two of their darker franchises, too. And then there's the support of games like Red Steel.

And the market is certainly there. Resident Evil 4 on Wii was a port of a port, yet still sold quite strongly. At the promise of support by the creation of more RE titles, Umbrella Chronicles also sold quite well... and look where that got Wii owners.

If there's not enough of an audience for those sorts of games on Nintendo systems, it's not Nintendo's fault. It's the fault of third-party publishers. Anybody that tells you that it's Nintendo's job to create the audience for third parties to sell to is either lying, ignorant, or deluded - which is why, when Nintendo has developed titles that would compete with third parties (for instance, with Goldeneye), third parties have complained that they can't compete with Nintendo. It's the third party's job to develop their audience. It's Nintendo's job to market the system and to get them into the public's hands in the first place.