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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo/Iwata's Bias Against The West

Skylanders was passed on because it was a new IP based on a system that no-one has attempted before and no-one knew how it would do.

Retro chooses what they make now I believe. Or they chose Tropical Freeze at least. (Yes, I'm going to take their word over yours)

Why is Retro working on Ninty games a sign of them abandoning the west when Rare made a bunch of Nintendo games?

Does ANY dev work on as much games and as quickly as Rare did? No? Development costs are higher aren't they? There's a thread asking why Ninty doesn't have a team working as quickly as Rare and everyone knew it was because development costs and times are different.

 Minecraft for a Ninty console couldn't have been done because the developers were working on so many versions they had no time for more. (I concede that Ninty could have approached them earlier.) One may eventually come.

Rare's output was slower and the Gamecube Starfox wasn't as acclaimed as their other games so maybe they thought they didn't need Rare anymore and could sell them. Man, I wish they didnt.

Things like Bayonetta and Devil's Third are the beginning. We should expect more games like this and I see no reason they have no chance of coming from a western dev.

They do like western indies at least. I don't see any stories about that not in their favour outside minecraft.

Apparently, everything bad is Iwata's fault.

Hindsight Vision: 20/20
Future Vision: 0



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Hedra42 said:
Zod95 said:

The difference between me and you (and also mii-gamer, Jumpin and other guys in this thread) is that you are too much concerned about the details whereas I only care about the main idea behind all of this: Nintendo has been disinvesting from the West.

I don't care if it's Iwata, Miyamoto, Yamuachi or any other guy... I know it's Nintendo. I also don't care about the business nuances of who owns what and with how much share and with how much power or with what business options or anything of that... I know Nintendo has means to compete and to overcome any unfavorable business/legal situations (if that was to be the case, which I doubt) but didn't even care to try. I also don't care about which western devs were not willing to continue partnering with Nintendo (if that was to be the case, which again I doubt), I know Nintendo didn't go seek for others to replace them so that the western market would continue to be strongly supported.

How do I know that? Because I have sources? No, because it's obvious. The only source I have is the billions of dollars Nintendo has collecting dust instead of being invested on western devs like it is on japanese devs, and the common sense to realize that cash is a universal language that every company speaks (everyone has a price). If Nintendo wanted western devs, they would have gotten them. No source will tell you which enterprises Nintendo doesn't own, so it must be you to tell me how they are supporting the West.

So I think the main point Soundwave made is correct and no one was able to deny it. Some people probably became upset and tried to shift the focus to the details so that the main message was forgotten or Soundwave got less credit (I don't know if you are one of them but you have to agree that others did that) but some others agreed with what he said, which is actually easy to follow.

I must congratulate him because it was a good OP with interesting insights and we need more like that in the forums.

There is no debate about whether Nintendo has been distancing itself from Western developers. That is very clear for all to see. The issue some people have taken here, is with the misinformation and spin that has been included in what would have been an outstanding OP, made worse by some very generalised assumptions made later on in the thread.

Yes, we do need more posts like Soundwave's OP in the forums, but only if they're based on, and backed up with fact.

If that's the case, then it's all fine by me. I couldn't care less about the details.

The only thing I could criticize is the importance you and many people are giving to such details, which I believe is being more destructive than constructive (once there is no consensus between you and Soundwave). So I have a suggestion for you: create that amazing OP you wanted to see and post it here for us to read. Instead of just criticizing the OP, losing focus from the main message and engaging into small "fights" that are not worth the time (at least in my opinion), you would be emphasizing the main points with an enhanced and fact-proven article (with all the correct details backed up by sources). That would be outstanding :) Could you do that?



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Zod95 said:
Hedra42 said:
  

There is no debate about whether Nintendo has been distancing itself from Western developers. That is very clear for all to see. The issue some people have taken here, is with the misinformation and spin that has been included in what would have been an outstanding OP, made worse by some very generalised assumptions made later on in the thread.

Yes, we do need more posts like Soundwave's OP in the forums, but only if they're based on, and backed up with fact.

If that's the case, then it's all fine by me. I couldn't care less about the details.

The only thing I could criticize is the importance you and many people are giving to such details, which I believe is being more destructive than constructive (once there is no consensus between you and Soundwave). So I have a suggestion for you: create that amazing OP you wanted to see and post it here for us to read. Instead of just criticizing the OP, losing focus from the main message and engaging into small "fights" that are not worth the time (at least in my opinion), you would be emphasizing the main points with an enhanced and fact-proven article (with all the correct details backed up by sources). That would be outstanding :) Could you do that?

If you want people to focus on the message instead of the details, leave out the details. You cant  expect people to see something they beleive is skewed or wrong, and simply ignore it. And since the main point being true in the OP is supposedly because the reasoning in the OP, it would make sense to talk about them.

 

EDIT:

 

You cant tell other people they aren't allowed to find the details important just because you dont.



tagging



Soundwave said:
dharh said:

Nintendo has no bias against the west. They just do not understand it. Read what I am saying. They don't understand it. Not even a sliver. They never have.

You think they understood the west in the 90s? You are wrong. They lucked out. Every success they have ever had in the west has been luck or just universaly acceptable/good products. Nothing else.


They understood the West because Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa were in charge of NOA and Yamauchi basically relegated at some decision making to them. 

That's why Rareware was allowed to make games for Nintendo in the first place. Nintendo also did respond to gaming trends back then, for example the arcade fighter back then was like what FPS are to the market today, and Nintendo greenlit Killer Instinct specifically for the US market. Nintendo Sports was for the Western markets. 

You have things like Starcraft 64, at one point Nintendo was actually working with the developers that would go on to create Grand Theft Auto 3/4/5 (DMA Design, now known as Rockstar North). They were one of Nintendo's "Dream Team" members of largely Western based studios tasked to bring games to the Nintendo 64. 

GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Star Wars games (several of them), Starcraft 64, Killer Instinct, Kobe Bryant NBA Courtside, Ken Griffey Jr. MLB, Donkey Kong Country, the original Star Fox (SNES), the founding of Retro Studios were all largely due to NOA, these are not "lucky breaks", but natural pay offs to an American division that actually used to have some autonomy in doing things.

There's also a few games that Nintendo was working on through NOA that never got released like FX Fighter (a 3D fighter for the SNES) and Riqa, a Tomb Raider type game for the N64.  

If NOA's hands were not tied by the horrible cartridge-only console decision with the N64, I think the N64 would've easily sold 50+ million worldwide.


I don't really consider NOA part of Nintendo honestly. They are like a group of 1st party studio's. I don't believe the people that run the company in Japan has a damned clue about western gamers.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



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Smear-Gel said:
Zod95 said:

If that's the case, then it's all fine by me. I couldn't care less about the details.

The only thing I could criticize is the importance you and many people are giving to such details, which I believe is being more destructive than constructive (once there is no consensus between you and Soundwave). So I have a suggestion for you: create that amazing OP you wanted to see and post it here for us to read. Instead of just criticizing the OP, losing focus from the main message and engaging into small "fights" that are not worth the time (at least in my opinion), you would be emphasizing the main points with an enhanced and fact-proven article (with all the correct details backed up by sources). That would be outstanding :) Could you do that?

If you want people to focus on the message instead of the details, leave out the details. You cant  expect people to see something they beleive is skewed or wrong, and simply ignore it. And since the main point being true in the OP is supposedly because the reasoning in the OP, it would make sense to talk about them.

 

EDIT:

 

You cant tell other people they aren't allowed to find the details important just because you dont.

If they see something wrong and put it right they are not ignoring it, are they? I just think it's much better to be constructive and improve what is faulty but has potential than to waste it and be stuck on a negative and destructive position.

To me, people that criticize the details of a good message is most probably because they are not comfortable with that message and want to destroy it (or at least cloud it).

Regarding the importance of the details, that's just my opinion (see the underlined).



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Zod95 said:
Smear-Gel said:
Zod95 said:

If that's the case, then it's all fine by me. I couldn't care less about the details.

The only thing I could criticize is the importance you and many people are giving to such details, which I believe is being more destructive than constructive (once there is no consensus between you and Soundwave). So I have a suggestion for you: create that amazing OP you wanted to see and post it here for us to read. Instead of just criticizing the OP, losing focus from the main message and engaging into small "fights" that are not worth the time (at least in my opinion), you would be emphasizing the main points with an enhanced and fact-proven article (with all the correct details backed up by sources). That would be outstanding :) Could you do that?

If you want people to focus on the message instead of the details, leave out the details. You cant  expect people to see something they beleive is skewed or wrong, and simply ignore it. And since the main point being true in the OP is supposedly because the reasoning in the OP, it would make sense to talk about them.

 

EDIT:

 

You cant tell other people they aren't allowed to find the details important just because you dont.

If they see something wrong and put it right they are not ignoring it, are they? I just think it's much better to be constructive and improve what is faulty but has potential than to waste it and be stuck on a negative and destructive position.

To me, people that criticize the details of a good message is most probably because they are not comfortable with that message and want to destroy it (or at least cloud it).

Regarding the importance of the details, that's just my opinion (see the underlined).

Indeed, people have been picking up on the faulty information and putting it right throughout this thread. That is hardly negative or destructive, nor is it clouding the message that Nintendo is distancing itself from western developers, since none of those people have at any point contradicted it.

Regarding your suggestion for me to post a revised OP with the correct information, while it would be nice to have it all placed succinctly in one post, I don't see what else that will achieve. The points in the OP have already been corrected in this thread.



Everything you said, i agree.

Nintendo is no longer westernized support anymore, i mean look what happened to Nintendo nowadays. Remember Nintendo said they wanted to bring Mature Core back pre-Wii U come out? Look how many "Mature" western 3rd party supports lost. Meanwhile, Nintendo still have Japanese 3rd party supports.



Emily Rogers wrote an article on why it would be goof for Nintendo to own a sports studio.
Although it`s focus is primarly on how sports games would affect Nintendo, by reading you can see some points that are being made in this thread, on the importance of Nintendo not only investing in sports titles, but on creating studios to make games they rely on 3rd parties to supply them with.

It`s a really good take on the importance of Nintendo relying again on western studios.

Here it is: http://www.dromble.com/2013/10/17/20-reasons-why-nintendo-should-consider-investing-in-their-own-sports-studio/



Jumpin said:

The original post is full of incorrect information, people should do their own research:

1. You claim Iwata sold Rare. Iwata didn't own Rare. The Stamper brothers owned Rare and they sold a majority share to Microsoft. Rare did attempt to sell to Nintendo, but it was Yamauchi's decision to turn them down, not Iwata.

2. You claim Iwata had nothing to do with Retro studios. Miyamoto was the one who made the decision to give Retro a shot with the Metroid license. Retro was purchased by Nintendo in May 2002 and invested heavily in the company.

3. You claim Factor 5 was cut loose by Iwata. The fact is that Factor 5 was not in any way owned by Nintendo, but by LucasArts. Factor 5 began developing for other consoles because the GameCube flopped and LucasArts wanted to expand the profitability of the studio in order to sustain them. It wasn't Iwata's decision, it was the decision of LucasArts and Factor 5 based on the failure of GameCube.

4. You claim that Western Studios began leaving under Iwata when it is a fact that they began abandoning Nintendo during the N64 era when Western studios began focusing on Sony consoles instead of Nintendo consoles. Unlike some of your examples, some of these departures are directly the fault of Nintendo prior to Iwata. A huge example is Nintendo second party DMA/Rockstar North. Nintendo had a deal with them to be the studio's publisher. DMA developed Uniracers, Body Harvest, Space Station Silicon Valley, and Grandtheft Auto - Nintendo during the N64 era dropped them as a studio, opting out of publishing their games because they would not appeal to the Japanese market. This was not Iwata, but rather the previous leadership. Iwata never, ever dropped a studio because the games wouldn't appeal to Japan, but the previous leadership did just that with one of the most important studios of the past 20 years.

5. You claim that Nintendo "stripped NoA of any real power" but there haven't been any such moves at all. What power are you talking about? When was it stripped away? NoA is simply Nintendo's publishing and localization office for North America, it is the equivalent of NCL, NoE, NoK, etc... If Iwata was biased towards Japan in regards to NoA, then NoA would have a Japanese CEO, not an American one. All of the other International offices are run by Japanese presidents, except NoA, which has been run by Reggie Fils Aime since he replaced Kimishima in 2006.


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