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Forums - Sony - So it turns out the PS4 does have software authentication...

wilco said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
wilco said:
SanAndreasX said:

I've been gaming since the Atari days, and the controllers they had back then were god-awful. The NES controller was a revolution and there wasn't any going back to big, bulky Atari-style joysticks.

And other than the NES days, when Nintendo had almost total control of the industry, there's always been debate over controllers. The Genesis had a three-button controller that crippled it somewhat when it came to the most popular third-party games of the 16-bit era, Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat. The SNES had enough buttons to play those games and was in fact nicely laid out for Mortal Kombat. So Sega made a six-button controller with the Street Fighter II layout. There was actually a fair bit of debate among gamers about 16-bit controllers. Then there was the N64 with its analog stick and the Rumble Pak, which caused Sony to release the Dual Shock controller.


The NES controller was perfect for its time period. As games evolved the best controller fot its era actually was the DualShock. Yes, despite this thread, I do think the DualShock is a great controller.... for platformers. That is what it was designed for and that is what it was perfect for. Back in those days I never had a problem with the DualShock because it was perfect for the kinds of games being made. Unfortunately the design has not evolved enough since then. Now that platformers are no longer the most dominant genre, it makes no sense for the d-pad to be taking up the most prominent position on the controller. 

The reason the d-pad is their is so that the controller remains symmetric.


I don't believe that, but if it were true then that is a terrible reason. You shouldn't have symmetry for the sake of symmetry. You should make the most ergonomic design possible (see xbox 360 controller for reference).

Its symmetric by design. This is because PS is an international brand, so it should support as many gamers as possible and be easy to pick up.

Xbox is an american focused brand, its controller is designed to support right handed gamers.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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wilco said:
DD_Bwest said:
what other controllers out there have a touch pad? the touch pad is used in basically EVERY game. So you want to use a controller that will literally hold you back and not let you do everything in the game? why dont you just hacksaw off the left joystick and glue it to the d-pad


This thread is a complete joke, and you made yourself look really bad by trying to call proprietary hardware DRM. You might want to have this locked to save face, or at least change the title to something more accurate


Just because some developers are shoehorning touchpad functionality in does not mean it's use is compelling. I played infamous: second son and killzone: shadow fall, two first party games that use the touch pad extensively and all I saw were gimmicks that could easily have been mapped to buttons. Not only is the touchpad unnecessary, games are actually less enjoyable for using it. The only way the touchpad would have been somewhat compelling is if it wasn't in such an awkward place on the controller. Puttin it front and center means you have to move your fingers from more important buttons to get to it. They should have put it on the back.

And no, this isn't just "proprietary Hardware.". Software is being used for authentication, which is exactly what DRM does.


DRM is about your rights to digital content you have.  Things you download or that come in digital form, like a program file.    The whole DRM thing last summer was restrictions on you using Digital Data that is in your possesion.

That is not wat this is. This is Backend software within the consoles operating system that limits HARDWARE use, its all about proprietary hardware.  Another term we could use is Hardware rights management.   Unless ofcourse you downloaded your controller, in which case im sure alot of people would have questions as you how you actually managed to do that.

 

And your continued use to call it a gimmick is borderline bating,  it has been used extensively in games, that you cant just remap.   How would you remap the directional swipes in KZ?  you could remap the push aspect of it,  but what about the share button?  youd be missing a button.    and for games like ff14 or warthunder,   having a touchpad mouse is an awesome thing to have as an extra.     You are really grasping at straws to try to create a complaint against the ps4.  



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

DonFerrari said:
wilco said:
DonFerrari said:

How can you say d-pad on x360 is better than on ds3 when it seems you largely just play with x360 controller?

About player identification it regards side of the screen. With eye and ds4 if you and you friend change place on the couch the position you play will change.

Did not say it was better, just not any less reliable. I own a ps3 and I have used the DS3 before. The d-pad was good but my post 2010 360 d-pad worked just as well. I've also used the DS4 long enough to know that the d-pad is basically the same as the DS3. 

Any feature of the DS4 that requires the eye to work is almost not even worth talking about. The eye is less relevant than the kinect and thats saying something.

Ok for not less reliable you are just talking about breaking and input fail or easyness of use and usage on genres where it had problems before 2010?

So from ds3 being enough to identify player (same for Wii and x360, using small leds, x360 is actually easier and more visible) and after explaining you just disregard because of eye... This don't need special coding from devs, it is as usefull (or irrelevant if you preffer) as xbox os voice commands (which work through mic on ps4). Haven't saw much x1 fans saying how useless voice commands were, have you?

The only thing I need my d-pad to do is acurrately read my input. Pre-2010 xbox 360 controllers, you press left and end up going down. Yes, those d-pad's were TERRIBLE. Post 2010 360 controllers do exactly what I request and that is all I need. I actually prefer the adjustable d-pad 360 controllers over the XB1's d-pad. The XB1 d-pad doesn't stick out far enough for my liking.

From what I have heard the only reason why the xbox voice commands are so "useful" is because ms specifically designed the interface to be used with kinect. The XB1 interface is designed to make you hate using a controller, that was a decision, that is not the way it needs to be. That is called creating a problem then selling the solution. That is the same way I feel devs are approaching the touchpad, they create gameplay scenarios that would have been perfectly fine being left on the cutting room floor, but now gamers feel those things are necessary, when in reality, they've just created that perception to justify a gimmick.



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
wilco said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

 

The reason the d-pad is their is so that the controller remains symmetric.


I don't believe that, but if it were true then that is a terrible reason. You shouldn't have symmetry for the sake of symmetry. You should make the most ergonomic design possible (see xbox 360 controller for reference).

Its symmetric by design. This is because PS is an international brand, so it should support as many gamers as possible and be easy to pick up.

Xbox is an american focused brand, its controller is designed to support right handed gamers.


Right handed, FPS centric and with bigger hands than other ethinicities.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Just to comment I have no problem with you preferring another controller that is fine. But this is not an Sonys' issue this seems like a personal issue. Which is fine seeing as you want to play with the controller you want. Also outside of maybe shooters there is no reason to say the XB controller is better than the PS4 controller.
The d-pad is still much better on the PS controllers and milers better for fighting games which is what I love to play.

The d-pad was improved on he 360 and on the XB1 but it is still not as good as the PS4 d-pad. Anyway I hope you figure something out that works for you!



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wilco said:
DonFerrari said:
wilco said:

Did not say it was better, just not any less reliable. I own a ps3 and I have used the DS3 before. The d-pad was good but my post 2010 360 d-pad worked just as well. I've also used the DS4 long enough to know that the d-pad is basically the same as the DS3. 

Any feature of the DS4 that requires the eye to work is almost not even worth talking about. The eye is less relevant than the kinect and thats saying something.

Ok for not less reliable you are just talking about breaking and input fail or easyness of use and usage on genres where it had problems before 2010?

So from ds3 being enough to identify player (same for Wii and x360, using small leds, x360 is actually easier and more visible) and after explaining you just disregard because of eye... This don't need special coding from devs, it is as usefull (or irrelevant if you preffer) as xbox os voice commands (which work through mic on ps4). Haven't saw much x1 fans saying how useless voice commands were, have you?

The only thing I need my d-pad to do is acurrately read my input. Pre-2010 xbox 360 controllers, you press left and end up going down. Yes, those d-pad's were TERRIBLE. Post 2010 360 controllers do exactly what I request and that is all I need. I actually prefer the adjustable d-pad 360 controllers over the XB1's d-pad. The XB1 d-pad doesn't stick out far enough for my liking.

From what I have heard the only reason why the xbox voice commands are so "useful" is because ms specifically designed the interface to be used with kinect. The XB1 interface is designed to make you hate using a controller, that was a decision, that is not the way it needs to be. That is called creating a problem then selling the solution. That is the same way I feel devs are approaching the touchpad, they create gameplay scenarios that would have been perfectly fine being left on the cutting room floor, but now gamers feel those things are necessary, when in reality, they've just created that perception to justify a gimmick.


Ok so it's just regarding input error not the easiness of use and applicability in several genres.

Well voice commands aren't used just to navigate through the OS, but since I don't on an X1 I can't say it sucks... my brother likes it the way it is and quite a lot he uses the controller only. But I do agree that only playing ISS the gamepad could be done with different inputs if so desired (like hold L1 and use right analog movements or any other thing, or just left out to a prompt) and also agree that both cases are non-necessary burdens created to promote what they want to sell.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

TheBlackNaruto said:

Also outside of maybe shooters there is no reason to say the XB controller is better than the PS4 controller. 


Almost any game with 3rd person gameplay I have found to work best with the 360 controller over the DS4 since having the promoted stick tends to somehow end up feeling "better" for being the stick to move with. I have found this especially true (that the general configuration is better) for games that can end up being very dependant on layout for ease of gameplay like Dark Souls, Smash Bros (hence why I will be getting the gamecube adapter), and so on. The positioning of the d-stick and analog allow for multiple ways of accessing the d-stick functionality from either hand while continuing to move.

Likewise, I have always found that the gamecube controller has been superior to its contemporaries (DS2, Xbox brick).



DD_Bwest said:
wilco said:
DD_Bwest said:
what other controllers out there have a touch pad? the touch pad is used in basically EVERY game. So you want to use a controller that will literally hold you back and not let you do everything in the game? why dont you just hacksaw off the left joystick and glue it to the d-pad


This thread is a complete joke, and you made yourself look really bad by trying to call proprietary hardware DRM. You might want to have this locked to save face, or at least change the title to something more accurate


Just because some developers are shoehorning touchpad functionality in does not mean it's use is compelling. I played infamous: second son and killzone: shadow fall, two first party games that use the touch pad extensively and all I saw were gimmicks that could easily have been mapped to buttons. Not only is the touchpad unnecessary, games are actually less enjoyable for using it. The only way the touchpad would have been somewhat compelling is if it wasn't in such an awkward place on the controller. Puttin it front and center means you have to move your fingers from more important buttons to get to it. They should have put it on the back.

And no, this isn't just "proprietary Hardware.". Software is being used for authentication, which is exactly what DRM does.


DRM is about your rights to digital content you have.  Things you download or that come in digital form, like a program file.    The whole DRM thing last summer was restrictions on you using Digital Data that is in your possesion.

That is not wat this is. This is Backend software within the consoles operating system that limits HARDWARE use, its all about proprietary hardware.  Another term we could use is Hardware rights management.   Unless ofcourse you downloaded your controller, in which case im sure alot of people would have questions as you how you actually managed to do that.

 

And your continued use to call it a gimmick is borderline bating,  it has been used extensively in games, that you cant just remap.   How would you remap the directional swipes in KZ?  you could remap the push aspect of it,  but what about the share button?  youd be missing a button.    and for games like ff14 or warthunder,   having a touchpad mouse is an awesome thing to have as an extra.     You are really grasping at straws to try to create a complaint against the ps4.  


Previous gens would have mapped that same kz functionality to a shoulder button triggered pop up inventory wheel. It is a gimmick, just like sixaxis, just like kinect. My only fear is that sony first party won't quickly abandon this one like they did for sixaxis since ps4 is in the lead right now. But so far I have seen nothing that couldn't be done better with buttons. If the touchpad is so important then how do you explain seven console generations in which amazing games were released without ever needing a touchpad? 

And like I said, the touchpad could be cool but its in a bad place on the controller.



wilco said:


Previous gens would have mapped that same kz functionality to a shoulder button triggered pop up inventory wheel. It is a gimmick, just like sixaxis, just like kinect. My only fear is that sony first party won't quickly abandon this one like they did for sixaxis since ps4 is in the lead right now. But so far I have seen nothing that couldn't be done better with buttons. If the touchpad is so important then how do you explain seven console generations in which amazing games were released without ever needing a touchpad? 

And like I said, the touchpad could be cool but its in a bad place on the controller.


the shoulder buttons are all used up already.   the touch pad allows for a whole wack of new inputs,  that can be done with the fingers without much effort, it doesnt interfear with the way you hold a controller, and your not dancing around the living room and having it miss movements. when all the other buttons are used, allowing more input is a bonus. and Its not getting abandoned at all because gamer feed back has been very positive, and it continues to be used in more creative ways.

 

and its not in a bad place, its in the exact perfect spot because it leaves everything else where they should be.  the options button isnt akward at all.   sure maybe the first hour you play your used to its old spot so you go to hit it and its not there,  but its new spot makes alot of sense, i never touch it accidentally and have never missed touching out when i went to hit it.

You are basically grasping at straws trying to find something to bash.



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

wilco said:
Jimbo1337 said:
So Sony should get rid of their "DS4 check-ins" so that less people would buy their controllers. The same controllers that are only supposed to be used on THEIR systems. I think while they are at it, they should also allow XB1 games to be played on the PS4...


If it truly is the best controller of all time as some have claimed then the number of people that will want to do that will be minimal. A small insignificant group that includes myself and a handful of others

Ironically the xbox one doesn't have controller check ins so you can use a DS4 on that system if you want. I sersiously doubt that sales of xb1 controllers have been significantly impacted.

Well that makes perfect sense to appeal to you and the handful of others.  While they are at it, I would like to use my super nintendo controller on my PS4.  I might be the only one who would want that, but it would be ludicrous if you they didn't appeal to all consumers.