You've obviously never worked in retail then. Sony, just like every product producer gets the sales numbers directly. Try working as a store manager, or better yet ask one since you obviouslly have a misconception about it.

They have 6/7% off because there are NPD and others official institutes.

Without them, it would probably be 50% error, at least...we already see that a lot last months, with 100% overtracking for xbox one, or the Vita who was 500% undertracked in the Us.

Lots of points and questions made in this thread. It's a shame most were absent from here in June when MS announced 84M X360's shipped and got a 1M adjustment here within 48 hours..

big difference between shipped and sold. 

They don't need to estimate, they don't need to guess. They get the numbers directly from the retailers. It's as simple as that.

On the contrary I have ample experience of marketing in the real world. There is no way of ever truly knowing how many PS4's have been sold through to consumers. There is absolutely no risk in claiming they've sold in excess of 10 million. If it is possible from their data that there could be in excess of 10 million sold through, that's what they're going to tell us.

I feel you're being very naive if you think companies don't fudge the data a little to tell a nice story. And you clearly work in a much more honest and less outcome focussed sector than myself. Which I envy you for!

And you don't seem to get what I'm saying. Sony is making Estimates, that much its obvious. But if they are making public statements based on those estimates, then they must have enough certainty, that they don't look like blantant liers when we have stronger facts.

I don't know why you keep mentioning the 10 million number, that stuff doesn't matter at all. This applies to any public statement of sales numbers and really we could generalize this to any of the big 3.

Their is zero reason to call Sony's statement into doubt right now, which you are doing,especially because of the discrepancy between it and VGC numbers, especially when ioi has already clearly explained why that discrepancy exists.

This isn't an arguement, because its not up to debate.

Not to mention their is a huge difference between exact numbers and a milestone, nobody is saying they know the exact numbers, but its naive to think that Sony wouldn't have access to the amount of resources neccessary for them to know whether or not they have passed a milestone, let alone access equivalent too the statistics that ioi has avaliable.

Seriously.

This kind of blantant speculation is appauling. And frankly you either don't understand what I'm saying, or don't want to understand and are simply making up the argument that you think I'm having with you.

Never did I say Sony had exact numbers or even that exact numbers existed, so to accuse me of claiming that I said this "I don't think there is an exact number of PS4's out there" is just a red herring. Doesn't matter that you cite the variation in media create or famitsu, I NEVER SAID ANY OF THAT.

In not a single one of my replies you or in this thread in general did I even say something along the lines of 10 million sales confirmed. You keep saying "As I said, I don't care if it's over 10 million." this crap, As if I was saying it matters if its 10 million or 50 million. No you are missing the point. As I've said above, it doesn't matter its a friggen public statement, nobody is that stupid to not check their facts before risking the shit storm especially when you are in the lead because of your positive PR as well as various other reasons.

Never did I say VGC tracking was terrible, yet you feel the need to repeat " I just think VGChartz numbers deserve credit for being reasonably accurate", a pointless nonsequitor that has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. The only thing I've said, Is what ioi said, lack of data presents a problem and the forumula has obviously gotten to the point that simply slotting in 600k will only lead to further mistracking.

And again you spread FUD, discrediting the estimation of Sony by saying crap like "it's important to remember the Sony estimates will be on the higher end of possible sales." how in the hell could you possibly know this, you don't have ANY information on how Sony tracks and are just speculating on the public resources avaliable to VGC. Despite the fact, that Sony has insultingly way more access to accurate data then VGC.

If anything, why didn't MS "bend the truth" and say 6 million sold. Why didn't Sony say 11-12 million shipped. Cause their is no way in hell that VGC can tracked shipped numbers, so whose going to prove them wrong?

In short, the only thing the VGC discrepancy shows is that their is a problem with the tracking algorithm, especially when many times this year its tracking has been outside the margins of error that it had last gen. Despite, Sony's statement, ioi, not being a billion dollar company, does not have access to the data that Sony has so he cannot adjust the numbers till said data is released, lest he perpetuate the tracking issues of the site. It does not call into doubt the statement Sony themselves made, and to use it as evidence to discredit Sony is the same kind of foolishness that gave us gems such as "Globally in the US". VGC adjusts its numbers to more accurate trackers, not the other way around, and Sony is going to have more access to more accurate trackers then VGC, there is no debate.

We don't know about sales in almost ANY European country really. Germany sales we know of as of the end of June and they are off. If you do have sales for Europe I'd like to see them.

I have worked in retail and I've even spoken to regional manager about this specific thing. They don't report on this data on a daily basis, and they certainly don't send back information that's less than 2 days old. You're grossly overestimated the competence of the people, systems, and PoS.

Being misleading/spinning is not the same as outright lying. Watch the conference. He clarified it like twice. Then you can proceed to read the press release on Sony's website.