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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is raising minimum wage nationwide a horrible idea?

exdeath said:
IkePoR said:
Blob said:
Having not read the thread I can tell you it's wrong. People talk about how the minimum wage in Australia is $15. But in Aus the price of things is far more expensive than it is in America, to the point that the minimum wages is about the same between the two. You raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of everything, thats economics.

Is there no wiggle room where a min. wage worker can afford to live on their salary without facing harsh poverty issues?  You make it sound impossible.


Depends if "live on their salary" means being single with an iPhone, a plasma TV, a BMW SUV with 26" rims and 6 kids by different daddies as it seems to be....

Those don't sound like poverty issues to me.  I'm talking about rent, the lights, water, food, etc.  Luxuries are luxuries.

If you can't afford 6 kids don't have them but I don't know what having different fathers  has to do with it.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

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JOKA_ said:

If minimum wage is bumped to $15 then this whole system goes out of whack. All of a sudden the low level people who were making $10 are now making $15...but so is the high school kid flipping burgers at McDonalds. Is the company going to raise the starting rate to $17 so that starting pay is still slightly above minimum wage (as it was before).

Well how about the people in the next higher department who were making $15 an hour? They used to be making almost double minimum wage and now they are 1) Making minimum wage and 2) Making as much money as people in the lower department. Should they get bumped up to $22 to keep the original $5 difference?

I've wrestled with this point for a bit.  That's the only reason why I do not agree with raising minimum wages.  What does need to happen is they need tiered wages.  Full time employees need a different wage bracket while part timers need a lower bracket.  Once you have this bracket you raise both based on inflation, etc.  The problem though is that businesses are a run by a bunch of pricks and would rather have a business run with part timers making minimum wage than to suck up the extra cost from their billions of dollar profits (Smaller businesses are different, but that's when the government steps in for support).

Edit: I've read a bit more on the thread.  Raising minimum wage doesn't inherently damage the economy, but rather it would help raise it.  More people with more money to spend will spend it.  This in turn puts money back into businesses.  This is the big mistake corporations make; their knee jerk reaction to a lagging economy is to cut wages and employees

The other point I'd like to raise is the "job" mentality.  I have a university degree in computer science.  I also work part time at a grocery store.  I've worked equally hard at both jobs.  One job involved me making apps for businesses, the other involves me stocking food for people to purchase.  One job is vital for living while the other isn't.  Why should I get paid more at my IT job while it's not a vital sector and get paid less at my grocery job?  I work just as hard at both jobs, and someone working at the same job I'm working working just as hard should get paid just as much.  For the record my IT job didn't actually pay that well and wasn't much higher than what I would make full time at the grocery store.



IkePoR said:
Blob said:
Having not read the thread I can tell you it's wrong. People talk about how the minimum wage in Australia is $15. But in Aus the price of things is far more expensive than it is in America, to the point that the minimum wages is about the same between the two. You raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of everything, thats economics.

Is there no wiggle room where a min. wage worker can afford to live on their salary without facing harsh poverty issues?  You make it sound impossible.

 I have a job that pays above minimum wage because I found one and went about getting the required skills to do it. I live comfortably and could easily live with even less, don't think id want to though.

Regardless it doesn't change the fact that the way the current economy works means that a raise of minimum wage would only cause the inflation of prices. Its more of a wage cut to those well off than an increase for those who work at mcdonalds.



Blob said:
IkePoR said:
Blob said:
Having not read the thread I can tell you it's wrong. People talk about how the minimum wage in Australia is $15. But in Aus the price of things is far more expensive than it is in America, to the point that the minimum wages is about the same between the two. You raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of everything, thats economics.

Is there no wiggle room where a min. wage worker can afford to live on their salary without facing harsh poverty issues?  You make it sound impossible.

 I have a job that pays above minimum wage because I found one and went about getting the required skills to do it. I live comfortably and could easily live with even less, don't think id want to though.

Regardless it doesn't change the fact that the way the current economy works means that a raise of minimum wage would only cause the inflation of prices. Its more of a wage cut to those well off than an increase for those who work at mcdonalds.

That... completely doesn't answer my question



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

I think companies that make insane profits like Mcdonald's and Walmart need to step up and pay their employees more, not have the government force it on them. Costco and Trader Joe's pay their employees quite nicely and they're business is going just fine.



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IkePoR said:
exdeath said:
IkePoR said:
Blob said:
Having not read the thread I can tell you it's wrong. People talk about how the minimum wage in Australia is $15. But in Aus the price of things is far more expensive than it is in America, to the point that the minimum wages is about the same between the two. You raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of everything, thats economics.

Is there no wiggle room where a min. wage worker can afford to live on their salary without facing harsh poverty issues?  You make it sound impossible.


Depends if "live on their salary" means being single with an iPhone, a plasma TV, a BMW SUV with 26" rims and 6 kids by different daddies as it seems to be....

Those don't sound like poverty issues to me.  I'm talking about rent, the lights, water, food, etc.  Luxuries are luxuries.

If you can't afford 6 kids don't have them but I don't know what having different fathers  has to do with it.

That is like 95% of the reason people want raises in minimum wage. They can't (or don't want to??) differentiate between priorities and luxuries. Every time I see a news report about walk outs on the job and protesting, it's some run down looking person saying, effectively, "I got kids to feed". I'm sorry, but minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be "career" employment. They're low wage/low skill so you can get introduced to the workforce and have something on your resume.

If you're a single, 35 year old with 3-4 kids...why the hell are you working at McDonald's? You telling me that in all those years, you couldn't develop any skills that could get you a better job than working at the register? One thing I always hear is that "my husband died and he was the breadwinner". Breadwinner or not, you telling me you couldn't learn how to type at a reasonable rate on a computer, maybe learn some Excel? The most rudimentary computer stuff you can pick up in literal spare time between whatever in the world you're doing. Because, at least where I'm around, that's a $14/hr job starting wage, if you get a job using those skills. And there's so much more available with skills that don't take a 4 year degree to accomodate.

But no, instead we're supposed to bend to the whims of the lowest common denominator. Instead of bettering yourself and getting a better job, we're supposed to sit back, watch you flip burgers for years, have a bunch of children, etc. then complain that $7.25/hr ain't enough to pay for your kids, rent, school, iPods, and Jordans. Minimum wage isn't supposed to do that! It's supposed to take care of YOU! Your bare essentials (roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food on your table). And not a single other person.



IkePoR said:
Blob said:
IkePoR said:
Blob said:
Having not read the thread I can tell you it's wrong. People talk about how the minimum wage in Australia is $15. But in Aus the price of things is far more expensive than it is in America, to the point that the minimum wages is about the same between the two. You raise the minimum wage, you raise the price of everything, thats economics.

Is there no wiggle room where a min. wage worker can afford to live on their salary without facing harsh poverty issues?  You make it sound impossible.

 I have a job that pays above minimum wage because I found one and went about getting the required skills to do it. I live comfortably and could easily live with even less, don't think id want to though.

Regardless it doesn't change the fact that the way the current economy works means that a raise of minimum wage would only cause the inflation of prices. Its more of a wage cut to those well off than an increase for those who work at mcdonalds.

That... completely doesn't answer my question


The wiggle room is the fact that you can get a job thats not minimum wage. Oh and those who earn minimum wage get tax offsets.



outlawauron said:
kupomogli said:
phaedruss said:
kupomogli said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Doesn't this just cause inflation proportionally.

Product costs have been going up substantially even without minimum wage increases.  I live in Florida, and the minimum wage has went up less than $1 in atleast 15 years.  At the same time, the majority of necessities like food items have went up $.50-$1 each while also coming in smaller sized portions. With how much costs have increased on product in the past 15 years compared to the how much minimum wage has went up, it's yet another example of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.


There are many causes of inflation, the minimum wage is just one.

Minimum wages increarsing inflation is minimal.  Let's say Walmart has 50 people working per store.  If there was a $2 minimum wage increase, for 8 hours a day, those 50 people would be paid $800 more per day per store.  An additional $.01 per item or items that are more frequently purchased and they'd make far beyond that $800 they lost.  How about that same $2 increase for a fast food restaurant where there's maybe 10 people working the entire day.  That's $160.  The cost increase in order to make that amount back for  the company would be next to nothing.

Well this is entirely wrong. It's not about making back the decreases but increasing profitability. Still being profitable isn't acceptable. So, in order to maintain that same level of profit, they're going to increase the price. Increases in taxation, minimum wage, and regulation lead to very fast increases in prices of the goods and services provided.


Then, when someone doesn't increase their prices and eat the slight increase in cost, consumers will flock to them and the companies that DID raise their prices will lose their business. These said companies will then lower their prices to compete, because that is how true capitalism is supposed to work.

Which is what will happen, especially when it comes to those large companies that make millions of dollars a year, and would continue to even if the minimum wage is increased to $15 per hour. Though honestly, $15 is overkill, but it should at least make for an interesting experiment...



BMaker11 said:
IkePoR said:

Those don't sound like poverty issues to me.  I'm talking about rent, the lights, water, food, etc.  Luxuries are luxuries.

If you can't afford 6 kids don't have them but I don't know what having different fathers  has to do with it.

That is like 95% of the reason people want raises in minimum wage. They can't (or don't want to??) differentiate between priorities and luxuries. Every time I see a news report about walk outs on the job and protesting, it's some run down looking person saying, effectively, "I got kids to feed". I'm sorry, but minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be "career" employment. They're low wage/low skill so you can get introduced to the workforce and have something on your resume.

If you're a single, 35 year old with 3-4 kids...why the hell are you working at McDonald's? You telling me that in all those years, you couldn't develop any skills that could get you a better job than working at the register? One thing I always hear is that "my husband died and he was the breadwinner". Breadwinner or not, you telling me you couldn't learn how to type at a reasonable rate on a computer, maybe learn some Excel? The most rudimentary computer stuff you can pick up in literal spare time between whatever in the world you're doing. Because, at least where I'm around, that's a $14/hr job starting wage, if you get a job using those skills. And there's so much more available with skills that don't take a 4 year degree to accomodate.

But no, instead we're supposed to bend to the whims of the lowest common denominator. Instead of bettering yourself and getting a better job, we're supposed to sit back, watch you flip burgers for years, have a bunch of children, etc. then complain that $7.25/hr ain't enough to pay for your kids, rent, school, iPods, and Jordans. Minimum wage isn't supposed to do that! It's supposed to take care of YOU! Your bare essentials (roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food on your table). And not a single other person.

I completely agree with this, to an extent.  Back in 2008, before I decided to go back to school, I woked 40 hrs a week at $7/hr(which was 75 cents higher than min. wage in 2008).  When I went to apply for the cheapest studio apartment in the area, I was turned away as I needed to make $10/hr at least before being considered. So in most cases you're probably right but perhaps I am the exception to the rule.

Blob said:
IkePoR said:

That... completely doesn't answer my question

The wiggle room is the fact that you can get a job thats not minimum wage. Oh and those who earn minimum wage get tax offsets.

That answered me.  Thanks, makes sense.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

phaedruss said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Doesn't this just cause inflation proportionally.


Yes, among other things. At the very least, minimum wage supporters should acknowledge that each state has a different economy and a nationwide minimum wage would not work in every state.


Not really.

You're assuming wages are the main cost in the production of the final product.

That is not the case in most sector of the economy ( especially not in those that pay minimum wages).

Some sector will be more affected than others, but if you look at retail like Wall Mart, wages is actually not their main cost..

 



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