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Forums - Politics - Is raising minimum wage nationwide a horrible idea?

ikki5 said:
outlawauron said:

Irrelevant. Most things people want to do are not ventures that are profitable and therefore not worth any money. It's not called work because it's fun and easier. That is just a bonus.

But it isn't Irrevelent. Why work at a job you absolutly hate when you can work somewhere you'll lose. I am willing to bet you have not worked that much in your life.  Would you be willing to suffer at a job you hate for 30-40 years of your life just to make some money?

If that's what it takes to raise my family and maintain the lifestyle I want, then of course. Being surrounded by Oil & Gas industry, I know dozens of people doing shift work in plants, going out on rigs, etc. Awful work schedules that don't lead to happy feelings about work. They deal with it because they're able to provide and their skill set allows them to accomplish the task.

I'm not saying everything should find a job you hate, and deal with it, but work isn't always about what you'll have fun doing. What position you take now is not a career path. You should know that it's rare for someone to stay at the same place for more than a few years.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
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PDF said:

BMaker11 said:

ncreased costs = prices passed on to the consumer. Or, more people having more money = suppliers seeing increased demand so they increase prices in order to maximize profits. I saw the video PDF posted (funny, it went from asking for $9/hr to $15/hr in just one year between the video posts) that said the costs would come out of profits, not increased prices. Not true, companies don't want their profit margins to decrease. They may be "in stiff competition for customers" but if companies are thinking "I don't want to make less now than I did before", they're all going to go in the same direction and pass the cost onto the consumer. So either way, my purchasing power decreases. Meaning I am making less if others make more (on a large scale like that). 

Also, define a "modest" lifestyle. I define it as being able to have a roof over your head, food on your table, and clothes on your back. Anything other than that is extra. Nobody is owed or entitled to "extra". You gotta work for that.

Australia has a $15 minimum wage, yet the price of a combo meal is still comparable to the US. 

 To deny prices will rise some is niave and stupid.  However to pretend all the bill of a higher minimum wage will be footed to price is also niave and stupid.  Competition will keep companies from sharp price increases.  Instead it will be a slow rise in prices.  There won't be a skyrocket affect of inflation. 

Corporations will also benefit from consumers having more expendable cash.  SInce most companies are economies of scale, this will greatly benefit them as they will  gain more customers.

Bringing it up to $10 to match what we had in the 70's is more than doable.

No it isn't. It's not even close. I spent nearly 2 weeks in Australia and another week in New Zealand. Everything I bought was at least 50% more expensive for the same product in the US. 

I don't think anyone denies that minimum wage needs to be increased a bit, but the $15 suggestion is a joke.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

mah062 said:
spurgeonryan said:
Pretty much every state is talking about raising the minimum wage right now. Then what! Prices will just go up. You cannot expect to get a ton of money for doing minimum wage jobs. It is not businesses fault that you did not go to college, did not work hard, had kids, etc.

There are always other reasons as well, but those are not really businesses fault as well. I would accept raising it yearly like the military does to keep up with the cost of living, but just egregiously raising it so the poor can live better is bull!

Seattle heads into new frontiers on the minimum wage fight

KUOW Photo/Deborah Wang

Angela Cough, co-owner of the Flying Apron Bakery in Fremont, wants residents to vote on the new minimum wage law in November.

Last month, Seattle became the first large city in the nation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. The new wage rules begin to phase in next April, but that's only if the new law survives several challenges in the courts and at the ballot box. From public station KUOW in Seattle, Deborah Wang has this report.

Seattle’s new $15 an hour minimum wage is scheduled to start phasing in next April. But it first must survive several challenges, both in court and at the ballot box.

Franchisees are challenging the law in court, and two separate groups are collecting signatures to put the law to a popular vote on this November’s ballot.

Forward Seattle, a group mostly made up of owners of small businesses who are unhappy with the new law, has put 80 paid signature gatherers on the streets. They need to collect 16,510 signatures before July 2 to put a referendum on this November’s ballot.

“We don’t have much time, this is our last opportunity to try to do something about this and make sure we are heard,” said Angela Cough, co-owner of the Flying Apron Gluten Free and Vegan Bakery in Fremont and the co-chair of Forward Seattle.

Cough is actually a supporter of raising the minimum wage, but she thinks $12.50 an hour would be a reasonable compromise. The current plan requires small business to reach to $15 an hour by 2021, and $17.25 an hour by 2024.

“We have no idea what is going to happen as a result of the ordinance,” she said. “There has never been a city who has actually gone this aggressive on increasing the minimum wage; any of the prior city examples have spent years increasing to essentially the rate we are at now.”

Washington state currently has the second highest minimum wage in the nation, behind Massachusetts.

Since the Seattle City Council passed the minimum wage plan in record time, many people don’t understand the law or the possible consequences, Cough said. “And when they think about it, they are like, whoa, wait a second, we didn’t think that would go through. That was signed into law?”

At this past weekend’s Fremont Festival, Cough and Forward Seattle co-chair Kathrina Tugadi set up a table and collected signatures in front of Cough’s café.

Several blocks away, West Seattle resident Craig Keller mounted his own separate signature drive. His table featured a large sign that read “Stop Force Wage Increases.” His petition references the Declaration of Independence and refers to the new law as "tyranny."

Festival-goer Larry Seto stopped with his daughter to sign the petition. He didn't know that anybody was challenging the new law. “I was actually surprised to see this, but I’m pleasantly surprised,” he said. 

Court Challenge

The new law is also being challenged in court. On June 11, the International Franchise Association, along with five local business owners, filed suit claiming the law discriminates against franchisees. Those are local small businesses that operate chains such as Subway and McDonald’s, as well as a host of other less well-known brands.

The new law regards all franchisees as big businesses because of their connection to a larger corporate parent. That requires them to phase in the $15 an hour minimum wage faster than other small businesses. Franchisees claim that puts their businesses at a competitive disadvantage.

“To put us on a different level of playing field, to be able to compete, it’s just not just,” said Kathy Lyons, co-owner of BrightStar Care in North Seattle and a plaintiff in the suit. “My term is ‘un-American.’”

The lawsuit filed in US District Court seeks an injunction to stop the law from going into effect next year.

Seattle’s Mayor Ed Murray calls the IFA lawsuit a “distraction.” He believes the city is on solid legal footing in terms of how it regards franchisees.

As for the ballot challenges? Murray says he finds them "disappointing."

“I worry that this is going to poison the atmosphere between business and employees in this city. I thought we had a way to come together. No one was happy, but no one is ever happy when you work on a compromise,” Murray said.

If the minimum wage law qualifies for the ballot, Murray believes it will be approved by voters.

And supporters of the law say they are prepared to fight for it.

“I don’t think there is any standing still. It’s still up in the air,” said Philip Locker, one of the founders of 15 Now, the group that had been advocating for an even more aggressive minimum wage plan.

Locker said the only way to preserve the $15 an hour wage is to ensure that it spreads beyond Seattle.

“Either we succeed in spreading $15 throughout King County and Washington state and nationwide, or Seattle is going to be under enormous pressure from business to undermine, water down further and eventually overturn the $15 that was passed here,” Locker said. “It’s not secure, it’s not stable.”

The fight over the minimum wage is likely to be a long one. Whatever happens in the courts or on this November’s ballot, other groups have announced their intention to challenge the wage next November as well.


Oh no no no no no. Businesses will not respond by raising the prices of their products. The biggest issue will be this. Suppose. Business has $150 an hour to spend on employees and the minimum wage is $10 an hour. This business will have 15 employees. When minimum wage is raised to $15 an hour which is a HUGE jump, the same business will just layoff it's 5 most unproductive employees, thus raising the unemployment. So to answer your extremely long drawn out process, the market will tell the government when the minimum wage needs to be raised. When the unemployment is down to 4 or 5%, it's time for a raise. Liberals are just stupid. My dad has a PhD in economics from Hendrix and anyone as well educated as he is will tell you the conservative economic policies are the way to go. Just look up states with best and worst economies and the conservative states will be at the top and liberal states will be at the bottom. Can't f***ing believe Obama was elected over Romney. Romney KNEW his shit and exactly how to get this economy back on its feet.


Yeah, but Romney was kind of a Mormon Cultist that would have nuked the world on the day after his Inauguration Day for the Power and the Glory of Momo Jesus, the Pedophile, Conman, Water Witch, Treasure Seeker, Murderer, Lecher, and Wanna Be American Napoleon Joey Smith, Jr., Magic Underoos and for all Mormon men to become Polygamous, Pedophile Gods after death so . . .



outlawauron said:

I don't think anyone denies that minimum wage needs to be increased a bit, but the $15 suggestion is a joke.

It needs to be completely abolished. Because it is immoral.

Apart from being immoral, it is also economically destructive. It leads to violence and poverty.

Edit: the law is also something of a joke. Lots of people work for less than the minimum wage, because they need the jobs. The more the government tries to prohibit peaceful livelihoods, the more "criminals" will be created.



"In truth, there is only one way to regard a minimum-wage law: it is compulsory unemployment, period. The law says, it is illegal, and therefore criminal, for anyone to hire anyone else below the level of X dollars an hour. This means, plainly and simply, that a large number of free and voluntary wage contracts are now outlawed and hence that there will be a large amount of unemployment. Remember that the minimum-wage law provides no jobs; it only outlaws them; and outlawed jobs are the inevitable result...

if proponents of the higher minimum wage were simply wrongheaded people of good will, they would not stop at $3 or $4 an hour, but indeed would pursue their dimwit logic into the stratosphere.

The fact is that they have always been shrewd enough to stop their minimum-wage demands at the point where only marginal workers are affected, and where there is no danger of disemploying, for example, white adult male workers with union seniority. When we see that the most ardent advocates of the minimum-wage law have been the AFL-CIO, and that the concrete effect of the minimum-wage laws has been to cripple the low-wage competition of the marginal workers, the true motivation of the agitation for the minimum wage becomes apparent" -

The Crippling Nature of Minimum-Wage Laws

http://mises.org/daily/6097/



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Minimum wage itself is a bad idea. Its a huge waste of time and energy and was borne out of white labor unions that wanted to protect their own jobs from minorities who would work for lower wages than whites.

Why the hell do people support minimum wage laws, gun control laws, public schools, or just about any other idea that comes out of the progressive agenda? Most of them can be traced right back to injustices perpetrated on minorities on this country.

•The 1931 Davis-Bacon Act, requiring "prevailing" wages on federally assisted construction projects, was supported by the idea that it would keep contractors from using "cheap colored labor" to underbid contractors using white labor.

•Apartheid South Africa enacted a minimum wage to price low-skilled black workers out of selected trades.

•In the 1950s, New England textile manufacturers supported Sen. John F. Kennedy's efforts to increase the federal minimum wage to prevent competing mills from starting up in the low-wage South.

Minimum wage laws do nothing but cause prices to rise and further ensure the less skilled are harder to hire causing all sorts of other problems in the process.



PDF said:
outlawauron said:
PDF said:

Australia has a $15 minimum wage, yet the price of a combo meal is still comparable to the US. 

 To deny prices will rise some is niave and stupid.  However to pretend all the bill of a higher minimum wage will be footed to price is also niave and stupid.  Competition will keep companies from sharp price increases.  Instead it will be a slow rise in prices.  There won't be a skyrocket affect of inflation. 

Corporations will also benefit from consumers having more expendable cash.  SInce most companies are economies of scale, this will greatly benefit them as they will  gain more customers.

Bringing it up to $10 to match what we had in the 70's is more than doable.

No it isn't. It's not even close. I spent nearly 2 weeks in Australia and another week in New Zealand. Everything I bought was at least 50% more expensive for the same product in the US. 

I don't think anyone denies that minimum wage needs to be increased a bit, but the $15 suggestion is a joke.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/

If you are trying to say taxes have more of an effect on prices than wages you are right, but at the same time you can't prove it to be negligible, since the taxes on the USA and Australia aren't being directly measured and compared. Australia has a higher GDP per capita, so like Scandinavia, its prices and wages should be higher overall, even though food isn't particularly heavily taxed.

https://ama.com.au/media/australia-needs-tax-junk-food

Though overall I do agree with the suggestion on your fist post. Just a side note to your argument...



 

 

 

 

 

NobleTeam360 said:

I think major corporations like WalMart, McDonalds, etc......... should have to pay a higher minimum wage. Small businesses though shouldn't be forced to pay a minimum wage. Although in general I support a higher minimum wage, you can't expect people to work for 7.25/hour and still be able to live off of that when prices continue to skyrocket for basic needs (food, water, shelter, etc...)

And tell me how that would work out for small corporations?  Who would work for Joe's Shop for $8.00 and hour when they could work for Walmart for $15 an hour.  No one would work for the little guy and we would just be stuck with the big guys.  



irstupid said:
NobleTeam360 said:

I think major corporations like WalMart, McDonalds, etc......... should have to pay a higher minimum wage. Small businesses though shouldn't be forced to pay a minimum wage. Although in general I support a higher minimum wage, you can't expect people to work for 7.25/hour and still be able to live off of that when prices continue to skyrocket for basic needs (food, water, shelter, etc...)

And tell me how that would work out for small corporations?  Who would work for Joe's Shop for $8.00 and hour when they could work for Walmart for $15 an hour.  No one would work for the little guy and we would just be stuck with the big guys.  

Jobs are limited at big corporations, so people would have no choice but to take jobs at smaller places. 



NobleTeam360 said:
irstupid said:
NobleTeam360 said:

I think major corporations like WalMart, McDonalds, etc......... should have to pay a higher minimum wage. Small businesses though shouldn't be forced to pay a minimum wage. Although in general I support a higher minimum wage, you can't expect people to work for 7.25/hour and still be able to live off of that when prices continue to skyrocket for basic needs (food, water, shelter, etc...)

And tell me how that would work out for small corporations?  Who would work for Joe's Shop for $8.00 and hour when they could work for Walmart for $15 an hour.  No one would work for the little guy and we would just be stuck with the big guys.  

Jobs are limited at big corporations, so people would have no choice but to take jobs at smaller places. 

And what makes a company a big corporation?  Profit, number of employees, ect.  Just as you have seen with obamacare, people will cut things to be below the bar.  There are rules that if a corporation employes like 50 employees full time they have to meet certain insurance regulations.  No what companies do that are near that threshold.  They fire people or move them to part time.