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Forums - Sony - The Last of Us remastered now officially 1080p 60fps!

BraLoD said:
GribbleGrunger said:
BraLoD said:

I love TLOU, it's a 10/10 for me, but it don't have the best gameplay of history man, don't go that far.
The best part of the game is it's story and how it can drive you into it, it's very immersive and you get involved with it.
I'm one of the type of gamers that go to every corner to check everything, talk to everyone multiple times, read all I find, stop the characters time to time to appreciate the enviroments and feel the atmosphere and I loved what I experiencied in TLOU, and that's it, that's what makes the game a masterpiece to me.

Well perhaps the gameplay comment is subjetive, I'll give you that, but it's certainly excellent even if you don't think it's the best in history. It was the best for me though. I have never enjoyed playing a game as much, before OR after TLOU. Whichever way I played it (I played it 7 times) I had no problem doing exactly what I wanted to do. From stealth to all out attack, I was in complete control and everything felt as it should.

Yeah, it's actually quite good, but I give this point to Red Dead Redemption this gen, when I started I just couldn't stop playing it, I was exciting hunting, searching for treasures, interacting with the events that happened all the time, playing the mini-games, breaking into bandit forts and everything, as a game I prefer RDR over TLOU, and RDR have an awesome story and it's totally immersive either, but in the story, TLOU story wins over RDR, and that make me choose it over RDR as my favorite, but without a doubt I had more fun playing RDR, and that drived me a little out ot the main story, I was just doing a lotof things other than continue the story itself, I was more immersed into the game world and gameplay, even with a great story to keep doing.
In TLOU I was totally into the story and the game world, the gameplay faded a little to me.
Just TLOD managed to be perfect into balancing everything to me

Isn't that essentially saying that you prefer open world games to linear story driven games though? I think it's really just a matter of taste. RDR is my second favourite game of all times by the way :)



 

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How often will it drop to 30?



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vivster said:
How often will it drop to 30?


Why would it?



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
VanceIX said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
VanceIX said:

Please, tell me where TLOU is possibly demanding in any area not called graphics. You yourself said that it "loads the entire game" (which isn't true since the PS3 only has 512mb of RAM), so I'm not sure where I'm ignorant.

Rendering, Physics, World, Audio, Networking, AI in that order with Rendering being the most technically demanding and AI being the least, complex AI is still relatively cheap comparitevely, Networking is typically light by neccesity. Framerate and Resolution require a lot of power. World system which handles streaming of the maps and locations of the actors is only really taxing if the system was designed that way.

For example, the most taxing thing about Skyrim is usually its graphics followed by its handling of multiple AI actors.

As for TLOU "loads the entire game" does not mean that the entire game is loaded into memory which is a stupid thing to assume, it means that it does all the necessary preloading during the start. Anyone whose actually played the game will know what I'm referring too.

Then don't say it "loads the whole game". Big difference between preloading and loading an entire game. Preloading is loading important parts of the game, not all of them.

Rendering goes with graphics, and TLOU renders a lot less in general in one level than a game like GTA has to when you're flying across a huge map.. Physics is taxing, but TLOU didn't have exemplary physics for the most part. Audio is a scratch. Networking, not sure how it comes into play in the single-player part. AI can be taxing if you're handling dozens of dynamic AI characters.

Framerate and resolution is once again hand-in-hand with graphics.

Anyway, if you believe that TLOU is very demanding in areas that aren't graphics, then tell me those. Because that's where ND put the most emphasis in terms of resource usage. The game hardly has to render nearly as much as open world games.

Wait a minute...do you think Open World Games render more than linear games? I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, there is no correlation between linearity and techincal demands, that is a matter of scale. 

For instance, Skyrim loads the game in cells, using Octrees or something similar to load things outside of the cell, in a corresponding level of the game depending on its design it might load a segment of the map to the full map in its entirety, but like Skyrim it will only load a certain number of things in the map at one time. The percieved openess of the game has literally nothing to do with it.

Not to mention Rendering, WHICH WHOLLY ENCOPASSES GRAPHICS AND PERFORMANCE not the other way around, is THE MOST computationally intensive thing of any properly optimized game. AI is barely taxing at all. Sure alot of AI can be taxing, but so can 4k 120 fps. 

look at Dead Rising 3, the AI for thousands of Zombies is competely eclipsed by the rendering of those zombies and their physics.

Rendering 1000 objects is more taxing then doing the AI for them, by a huge degree.

let me make it simple for you:

The openess of a game has nothing to do with what a game loads and has to render, must process the physics for, and control the events of the objects shown at one time which is what determines technical demands of a game.

Alright. Then tell me this, which is more taxing- a preloaded hallway in an enclosed area, or flying a helicopter through a city? Since the individual areas can be loaded all at once, due to the linearity of the game, rendering is made simpler. The developer knows that there is a set route that the player will follow. They can add scripted events that are not very taxing, as they know where the user is heading, and when they will reach a point. Then, you have a game where you have an entire city that needs to render bit by bit depending on where the user decides to go. The user may decide they want to fly a helicopter through the city streets, causing massive explosions in the game environment. 

Enclosed areas allow better optimisation, period. When a developer knows exactly what the user is doing at any given time, they can script events instead of having them happen in real time, giving the illusion of graphical prowess. When an entire level is able to be loaded at once, it's much easier to deal with rendering other details, rather than having to render dynamically depending on what the user does.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

Dark Chaos said:
Eddie_Raja said:
spemanig said:
kupomogli said:
But but but.... next gen consoles are too weak to do 1080p @60fps when the game looks marginally good.


TLOU is a linear game. Not nearly as damanding. This doesn't "prove" anything.


When a dev can't get 1080p 60 FPS on bloody Halo 2 it does...

P.S.  I don't want to hear your silly "Graphics swich on the fly" BS.  If they can't fit both buffers it just proves 32MB is too small for detailed 1080p considering the original game too up nearly nothing in its frame buffer.


Halo 2 is a Complete remaster while TLOU is a port

No lol TLoU is a complete remaster (It is in the title).  Look it up, people who have played it said "It looks like it was always meant to be on the PS4."



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

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Hynad said:
vivster said:
How often will it drop to 30?


Why would it?

Because it's a game on the PS4. Name one AAA game on PS4 that didn't drop to 30fps at some point. I'm skeptical until I've played it. I'm sure it will be 60fps most of the time as it is a pretty quiet and slow game but I can't believe that they have it locked there.



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BraLoD said:

TLOD is quite linear and is by far my favorite game of all time.
Also, I do like FF13 too who is the epitome of linearity , if it have a good story I'm totally into it.

I've fallen out with SE. They used to be my favourite developer but I'm afraid they're now one of my most disliked.



 

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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Their is no correlation between linearity and the technical demands of the game. Crytek 3.


Yes there absolutely is. No one's saying that the PS4 isn't a powerful machine, but upresing a last-gen linear game is not at all what proves it.



VanceIX said:

Alright. Then tell me this, which is more taxing- a preloaded hallway in an enclosed area, or flying a helicopter through a city? Since the individual areas can be loaded all at once, due to the linearity of the game, rendering is made simpler. The developer knows that there is a set route that the player will follow. They can add scripted events that are not very taxing, as they know where the user is heading, and when they will reach a point. Then, you have a game where you have an entire city that needs to render bit by bit depending on where the user decides to go. The user may decide they want to fly a helicopter through the city streets, causing massive explosions in the game environment. 

Enclosed areas allow better optimisation, period. When a developer knows exactly what the user is doing at any given time, they can script events instead of having them happen in real time, giving the illusion of graphical prowess. When an entire level is able to be loaded at once, it's much easier to deal with rendering other details, rather than having to render dynamically depending on what the user does.

It depends. If something is preloaded, its much less to render then something dynamically changing simply because everything has to be recomputed every pass and then rendered rather then rendering something statically. Just because a hallway is preloaded doesn't mean it has arbitrary limits on dynamism, nor does a helicopter flying through a city have to have dynamical elements. It can be completely static, and in that case it can either load the entire map at one time which is a matter of scale, or it can load portions of the precomputed map similar to the hall way.

In that scenario, where the only difference is that we are constantly rendering a hallway versus a helicopter flying through a static city, both loading the exact same area/draw distance with the only difference being that since the helicopter is moving and thus the objects rendered in the area are changing, then the technical demands are exactly the same.

Rendering is the most demanding part of running optimized games, this is why GPU is usually more important and alot more powerful then CPUs now a days.

Linearity/Openess means very little when it comes to Rendering, that entirely depends on how a game is designed.

In regards to Optimization, again that is a matter of scale not linearity, and of design as well.

And just so we're clear I'm going to give you a primer because you don't seem to understand what most of the words you are actually using mean aside from what the media tells you:

Essentially, what it means to render and object is to render its mesh(which is kind of like a skeleton, but a skeleton is an animated mesh using single meshes as frames), a mesh is made up of indicies, vertices, and normals(for lighting), the mesh makes the shape and the texture is applied to that shape to make an object. Lastly, in order to see this, it must be rendered or output on screen, the pixels that make up the image of the textured message is more or less the the rendered object. This alone isn't very taxing but its a lot more demanding then AI which just follows a set of specified instructions.

Now, take that rendered object and muliply that for every single object on screen. We haven't even covered lighting, shading(which are different), or even physics yet, these objects don't even move, the more complicated the textures the more information the computer needs to store and modify each mesh with. This is starting to get taxing. Now render it at 60 hz, the AI can work at a much slower speed maybe 5 hz. Now we start talking about optimization methods including, backface culling, view frustum culling, the works.

Point is, if a developers scripting is more technically demanding then Rendering, then they have shit programmers.

Enclosed areas allow better optimisation, period. When a developer knows exactly what the user is doing at any given time, they can script events instead of having them happen in real time, giving the illusion of graphical prowess. When an entire level is able to be loaded at once, it's much easier to deal with rendering other details, rather than having to render dynamically depending on what the user does.

Rendering happens everytime the screen updates, which is at least the display resolution of the game. The difference between dynamic and static objects is that dynamics objects have meshes that changes so it must be recomputed, while a static mesh can be loaded in and reused. Eventing is irrelevant. Furthermore, this is a design choice and has nothing to do with linearity of a game.



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spemanig said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Their is no correlation between linearity and the technical demands of the game. Crytek 3.


Yes there absolutely is. No one's saying that the PS4 isn't a powerful machine, but upresing a last-gen linear game is not at all what proves it.

I've explained it above to Vance. If you think there is then you do not understand what you are talking about. Linearity is merely a measure of how the game is designed, it has less bearing on the actual parts of the game that are technically demanding then design itself. A "Linear game" and an "Open World game" will have the exact same technical demands if designed identically.

Hell, rendering a single portion of an open world game is exactly the same demand as rendering the changing scene of moving through that world.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank