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Forums - Gaming - Why is it hard to believe that third parties are biased against Nintendo?

Danman27 said:
impertinence said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
impertinence said:
Captain_Tom said:

Why is it so hard to believe that third parties have a very valid reason for avoiding Nintendo?

This oft repeated sentence is in itself a great example of bias.


He's right though, they have a valid reason.

A valid reason if you buy into the bias, sure. Anything can be a valid reason. "I don't want to" is a valid reason for anything, it is also heavily dependent on bias.

The statement "Third parties have a good reason to avoid Nintendo" is a steaming pile of confirmation bias.


"But I don't want to, isn't a valid reason. Third parties have very little reason to develope for the wiiu. Nintendo has kind of alienated themselves from devs when they decided to say they didn't need them with the wii generation. Then there's also the fact the wiiu simply doesn't tend to have high sales with almost any game. It's simply not worth the risk to invest into it. 


Yep.  Why waste time and money learning to optimize a console when then the 360/ps3 are completily mapped out already and the PS4/One are vastly stronger and easier to program for.  Then throw in the fact that the game attatch ratio is terrible on the Wii U and you see a situation where it just makes no sense to make games for it.  



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mysteryman said:
DialgaMarine said:
burning_phoneix said:
DialgaMarine said:
Captain_Tom said:
DialgaMarine said:
It's kind of hard to not be biased if putting their games on the U will only cause them to lose money. It's a money making scheme for developers as much as it is anything else. If people aren't going to buy the games, you can't blame devs for refusing to support.

Exactly.  It isn't biased if its just good business.  It's common sense.

 Pretty much. The solution to third party problems is simple. If Ninty fans want more third party support, they need to convince themselves and their fellow Wii-U owners to start putting money where their mouths are and buy the third party titles that are already there, instead of sitting around and waiting for the next big Ninty exclusives. It's stupid when they get upset and cry like this when with pretty much every big third party title, the Wii-U version generally accounts for less than 1% of the game's total sales. Not to mention, when they claim the reason they don't buy third party games is because they get the worst versions, they might want to start looking at Nintendo and their hardware department before they start playing the blame game.




So when the WiiU gets PS3/Xbox360 ports later than the the aforementioned consoles with less DLC support, we're supposed to be grateful?

It has nothing to do with hardware if we're talking ports from last gen.

 If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo's not exactly too savy on DLC to begin with. Something tells me there's a 2-way issue there. As for the ports, clearly several third party devs have pushed Wii-U passed PS360, but at the end of the day, let's face it, it's a hardware issue there. The system is not very powerful to begin with, and it's severely gimped by the gamepad. You can't blame devs for not trying to conjure up magical elves that somehow make the Wii-U more than it is. Even Nintendo's own first party can't make Wii-U games look phenomenal, unless they feature cartoony, very undetailed, graphics. Point is, you're never going to see anything on Wii-U even come close to the graphical fidelity of a title like inFamous: SS, and if people aren't gonna buy the games anyway, why should third party devs even try?



Why should consumers buy games from devs that don't even try?


^The second someone repeats a question instead of answering, is the second someone has no argument.  You might as well just wave a white flag bud.



Captain_Tom said:
Danman27 said:


"But I don't want to, isn't a valid reason. Third parties have very little reason to develope for the wiiu. Nintendo has kind of alienated themselves from devs when they decided to say they didn't need them with the wii generation. Then there's also the fact the wiiu simply doesn't tend to have high sales with almost any game. It's simply not worth the risk to invest into it. 


Yep.  Why waste time and money learning to optimize a console when then the 360/ps3 are completily mapped out already and the PS4/One are vastly stronger and easier to program for.  Then throw in the fact that the game attatch ratio is terrible on the Wii U and you see a situation where it just makes no sense to make games for it.  

except neither is true.



Zero999 said:
Captain_Tom said:
Danman27 said:


"But I don't want to, isn't a valid reason. Third parties have very little reason to develope for the wiiu. Nintendo has kind of alienated themselves from devs when they decided to say they didn't need them with the wii generation. Then there's also the fact the wiiu simply doesn't tend to have high sales with almost any game. It's simply not worth the risk to invest into it. 


Yep.  Why waste time and money learning to optimize a console when then the 360/ps3 are completily mapped out already and the PS4/One are vastly stronger and easier to program for.  Then throw in the fact that the game attatch ratio is terrible on the Wii U and you see a situation where it just makes no sense to make games for it.  

except neither is true.

i guess in your world.

- Moderated, Carl



RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

And then the market changed. And Nintendo hasn't adjusted to it yet. ^_-

I don't think that's on Nintendo. You could call Nintendo's handhelds just as eccentric as their home consoles. After all, they are all designed by the very same company.

However, third parties do find success on Nintendo handhelds on a more regular basis and the Nintendo handheld had the best third party software sales in every single generation (compared to its respective competitors). Why do you think that is?


Placing the blame on third party devs only is unreasonable at best. Nintendo is the one making deals with these developers to bring content on their platforms. It's Nintendo in the end that has the responsibility to entice developers to create compelling content for their consoles. The fact is third parties don't want to create special versions of their games for a gimped console. Nintendo do things their way, very stubbornly. The Wii managed to be a hit for a certain type of games and crowd. But looking at Nintendo's performance since the N64, the Wii U is pretty much in line with how things have been for them in the market. When the casuals aren't there, the console sells mostly to Nintendo fans. The sales are pretty much speaking for themselves: In-line with the Gamecube and the N64.

Now you bring up the handheld market in the mix. A different market altogether, you have to admit. And one that Nintendo has always been the leader. Making games for the DS and 3DS isn't as expensive and doesn't involve nearly as much risk as making a high budget game for a console that doesn't sell.

"But... but... The Wii??" The Wii was mostly selling casual games. When third party devs made games that catered to the "hardcore" audience, sales were on most accounts disappointing, barely breaking even with the devs investment. It's not very difficult to see why devs would prefer to make their games on system where porting from one an other costs little and brings the most revenue in the end. The risk just isn't as high on the other home consoles compared to Nintendo's. Because that's where the actual crowd they make content for actually buy the games they make. Sony and Microsoft also help those devs by putting ads on their online services. Making sure people hear and know about the actual games...

I think it's really laughable when people blame anyone other than Nintendo for the mess the company is in right now. Developers go where there's money to be made. Totally normal. Figures from the last few generations show how difficult it is for them to make money on Nintendo's home consoles. To deny this, and make excuses like "they're just releasing lazy ports", only tells me that some of you don't want to face the possibility that Nintendo may not be as Godly as you see them.




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Captain_Tom said:

^The second someone repeats a question instead of answering, is the second someone has no argument.  You might as well just wave a white flag bud.


No question was repeated, a new one was asked. If you'd bothered to read on you'd notice the argument being made.

But nice try though.

 

Quote Forest eliminated - Conegamer



Hynad said:
RolStoppable said:
Hynad said:

And then the market changed. And Nintendo hasn't adjusted to it yet. ^_-

I don't think that's on Nintendo. You could call Nintendo's handhelds just as eccentric as their home consoles. After all, they are all designed by the very same company.

However, third parties do find success on Nintendo handhelds on a more regular basis and the Nintendo handheld had the best third party software sales in every single generation (compared to its respective competitors). Why do you think that is?


Placing the blame on third party devs only is unreasonable at best. Nintendo is the one making deals with these developers to bring content on their platforms. It's Nintendo in the end that has the responsibility to entice developers to create compelling content for their consoles. The fact is third parties don't want to create special versions of their games for a gimped console. Nintendo do things their way, very stubbornly. The Wii managed to be a hit for a certain type of games and crowd. But looking at Nintendo's performance since the N64, the Wii U is pretty much in line with how things have been for them in the market. When the casuals aren't there, the console sells mostly to Nintendo fans. The sales are pretty much speaking for themselves: In-line with the Gamecube and the N64.

Now you bring up the handheld market in the mix. A different market altogether, you have to admit. And one that Nintendo has always been the leader. Making games for the DS and 3DS isn't as expensive and doesn't involve nearly as much risk as making a high budget game for a console that doesn't sell.

"But... but... The Wii??" The Wii was mostly selling casual games. When third party devs made games that catered to the "hardcore" audience, sales were on most accounts disappointing, barely breaking even with the devs investment. It's not very difficult to see why devs would prefer to make their games on system where porting from one an other costs little and brings the most revenue in the end. The risk just isn't as high on the other home consoles compared to Nintendo's. Because that's where the actual crowd they make content for actually buy the games they make. Sony and Microsoft also help those devs by putting ads on their online services. Making sure people hear and know about the actual games...

I think it's really laughable when people blame anyone other than Nintendo for the mess the company is in right now. Developers go where there's money to be made. Totally normal. Figures from the last few generations show how difficult it is for them to make money on Nintendo's home consoles. To deny this, and make excuses like "they're just releasing lazy ports", only tells me that some of you don't want to face the possibility that Nintendo may not be as Godly as you see them.


Likewise, to completely dismiss "lazy ports" as an issue shows a reluctance to face the possibility that devs are responsible for their own revenue.



mysteryman said:
Hynad said:

Placing the blame on third party devs only is unreasonable at best. Nintendo is the one making deals with these developers to bring content on their platforms. It's Nintendo in the end that has the responsibility to entice developers to create compelling content for their consoles. The fact is third parties don't want to create special versions of their games for a gimped console. Nintendo do things their way, very stubbornly. The Wii managed to be a hit for a certain type of games and crowd. But looking at Nintendo's performance since the N64, the Wii U is pretty much in line with how things have been for them in the market. When the casuals aren't there, the console sells mostly to Nintendo fans. The sales are pretty much speaking for themselves: In-line with the Gamecube and the N64.

Now you bring up the handheld market in the mix. A different market altogether, you have to admit. And one that Nintendo has always been the leader. Making games for the DS and 3DS isn't as expensive and doesn't involve nearly as much risk as making a high budget game for a console that doesn't sell.

"But... but... The Wii??" The Wii was mostly selling casual games. When third party devs made games that catered to the "hardcore" audience, sales were on most accounts disappointing, barely breaking even with the devs investment. It's not very difficult to see why devs would prefer to make their games on system where porting from one an other costs little and brings the most revenue in the end. The risk just isn't as high on the other home consoles compared to Nintendo's. Because that's where the actual crowd they make content for actually buy the games they make. Sony and Microsoft also help those devs by putting ads on their online services. Making sure people hear and know about the actual games...

I think it's really laughable when people blame anyone other than Nintendo for the mess the company is in right now. Developers go where there's money to be made. Totally normal. Figures from the last few generations show how difficult it is for them to make money on Nintendo's home consoles. To deny this, and make excuses like "they're just releasing lazy ports", only tells me that some of you don't want to face the possibility that Nintendo may not be as Godly as you see them.


Likewise, to completely dismiss "lazy ports" as an issue shows a reluctance to face the possibility that devs are responsible for their own revenue.


Of course... Devs have been making lazy ports since the N64. 



Nintendos policies and how they run the business is off putting for business'. You cant just expect to devate from the market standard and think everyone should follow. Why should third parties lose mony for Nintendo? Makes absolutely no sense.



Hynad said:
mysteryman said:
Hynad said:

Placing the blame on third party devs only is unreasonable at best. Nintendo is the one making deals with these developers to bring content on their platforms. It's Nintendo in the end that has the responsibility to entice developers to create compelling content for their consoles. The fact is third parties don't want to create special versions of their games for a gimped console. Nintendo do things their way, very stubbornly. The Wii managed to be a hit for a certain type of games and crowd. But looking at Nintendo's performance since the N64, the Wii U is pretty much in line with how things have been for them in the market. When the casuals aren't there, the console sells mostly to Nintendo fans. The sales are pretty much speaking for themselves: In-line with the Gamecube and the N64.

Now you bring up the handheld market in the mix. A different market altogether, you have to admit. And one that Nintendo has always been the leader. Making games for the DS and 3DS isn't as expensive and doesn't involve nearly as much risk as making a high budget game for a console that doesn't sell.

"But... but... The Wii??" The Wii was mostly selling casual games. When third party devs made games that catered to the "hardcore" audience, sales were on most accounts disappointing, barely breaking even with the devs investment. It's not very difficult to see why devs would prefer to make their games on system where porting from one an other costs little and brings the most revenue in the end. The risk just isn't as high on the other home consoles compared to Nintendo's. Because that's where the actual crowd they make content for actually buy the games they make. Sony and Microsoft also help those devs by putting ads on their online services. Making sure people hear and know about the actual games...

I think it's really laughable when people blame anyone other than Nintendo for the mess the company is in right now. Developers go where there's money to be made. Totally normal. Figures from the last few generations show how difficult it is for them to make money on Nintendo's home consoles. To deny this, and make excuses like "they're just releasing lazy ports", only tells me that some of you don't want to face the possibility that Nintendo may not be as Godly as you see them.


Likewise, to completely dismiss "lazy ports" as an issue shows a reluctance to face the possibility that devs are responsible for their own revenue.


Of course... Devs have been making lazy ports since the N64. 

And it's taken its toll...