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Forums - Nintendo - Are third parties skipping Nintendo out of spite?

KylieDog said:
Nintendos fault, Sony and MS went to devs and asked what they wanted in a console so now they get support. Nintendo just did what they wanted with nobodies input and made the wrong console, they've done it 4 home systems in a row now and each time they lose more and more third party support.

They will not learn.

Not really Sony and Microsoft just made a mid end PC which is obviously easy to port from a PC to them. Nintendo always wants to make fully custom consoles which is great for them, but confusing to developers that expect a quick port.



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KylieDog said:
TheLegendaryWolf said:
KylieDog said:
Nintendos fault, Sony and MS went to devs and asked what they wanted in a console so now they get support. Nintendo just did what they wanted with nobodies input and made the wrong console, they've done it 4 home systems in a row now and each time they lose more and more third party support.

They will not learn.

Not really Sony and Microsoft just made a mid end PC which is obviously easy to port from a PC to them. Nintendo always wants to make fully custom consoles which is great for them, but confusing to developers that expect a quick port.


That excuse doesn't work when you take into account the last 4 Nintendo consoles all having this problem. 

Wasn't it difficult for 3rd parties to develop on N64? Also, the Gamecube's lack of successful 3rd party games is thanks to Nintendo's 1st party games, same with Wii and Wii U. In order to "win" back the missing support, they have to create new games using different genres (FPS, Sports simulators, 3PS) to prove they can appeal to the "core" gamers.



Nintendo doesn't bend over backwards for entitled third party developers. This is why only good developers like Ubisoft support Wii U.



"On my business card I am a corporate president. In my mind I am a game developer. But in my heart I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

Majority of 3rd party can not compete with Nintendo on their platforms and how do they expect to sell their games when they barely advertise them on Nintendo's platform and do not even try to promote versions of their games on Nintendo's platform and they barely put any effort in their ports which in turn results in a failure since they are incompetent. 3rd party developers were competitive on NES and SNES... They stopped being competitive when they backstabbed Nintendo...

Countless franchises that would sell better on Nintendos platform as exclusives are not on it... Ninja Gaiden is good example when Tecmo Koei was making a reboot they choose Xbox over Gamecube even when in their pool a vast majority of votes were on Gamecube and look at Castlevania, its a joke now and shadow of its former self... The publisher and developer do not want to develop for Nintendo even if it was extremely profitable... Konami is still smirking about the past and studio that makes latest Castlevania games is against Nintendo.

Some companies simply do not want to make money on Nintendos platforms and most of them are incompetent in advertising on Nintendo's platform like they have sub-human inteligence. I thought these people want.to make money, I guess not...



Fusioncode said:
Yeah I'm sure billion dollar corporations are making financial decisions out of spite.


EA



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KylieDog said:
TheLegendaryWolf said:
KylieDog said:


That excuse doesn't work when you take into account the last 4 Nintendo consoles all having this problem. 

Wasn't it difficult for 3rd parties to develop on N64? Also, the Gamecube's lack of successful 3rd party games is thanks to Nintendo's 1st party games, same with Wii and Wii U. In order to "win" back the missing support, they have to create new games using different genres (FPS, Sports simulators, 3PS) to prove they can appeal to the "core" gamers.


N64 - Nintendo used carts because it suited them, they didn't need much memory for their games and they made the carts so got them cheaper than third parties + got their console owner cut from sales to lessen cost, it all favoured Nintendo and nobody else.  Third parties flocked to PS1 with CDs that cost MUCH less and gave them more memory for the types of games they made.

GC - Nintendo used low memory GC discs because too cheap to pay a DVD license fee, didn't matter to Nintendo because most of their games don't use a lot of memory.  Third parties flocked to PS2 using DVD with more memory because it allowed them to make the sort of game they wanted, and even Xbox (so no blaming install base for why few GC games, because Xbox install base sucked too).

Wii - Went for a heavily underpowered console and abnormal controller because it suited them.  Again third parties went to other consoles because those offered what was needed for the games they wanted to make.

WiiU - Underpowered console again, again third parties going for the more powerful hardware because those let them make the games the want.

If you want thid party support, you need give them a reason to make games for your console.  Nintendo gives third parties reasons not to.


actually the gc discs was for privacy issues



spurgeonryan said:

Minecraft is still skipping 3DS and Wii U. But coming to vita?

 

Nintendo under attack!

It's more like this:

Microsoft courted Mojang with lots of money and fresh boxes of fedoras for notch.
Sony wanted a block of the pie and has done the same.
Nintendo would like it on their platform but are taking a "if you approach us and give us some control over the content then maybe" approach.

Additionally, given how successful the game is, I can see Nintendo being concerned about it stealing some of their first party games thunder.

Imagine, for example, it selling as well as it has on other platforms, and becoming one of, if not THE top selling game on the WiiU, that isn't the kind of publicity Nintendo want.



@KylieDog

Stop with the senseless narrow minded simpletonist way of thinking and reasoning...

PlayStation launched about one to one and a half year before Nintendo 64 launch. Nintendo 64 had its issues yet that did not stop 3rd parties making games for it and most of those games was either profitable or they broke even on the port. A lot of 3rd party games were extremely profitable, in sixth generation you only needed 100-150K units sold for game development costs being covered and later in Nintendo's 64 life developers got a hang of the console even with its limitations that they have overcomed with various tricks and few games were playable at 480P native which was amazing back then... Capcom managed to fit in entire Resident Evil 2 with cutscenes in a single 64MB cartridge and Resident Evil 2 was on two 700+ MB CD's!

Gamecube for 3rd parties was a huge improvement because it was not a nightmare to develop for like Nintendo 64 or Sega Saturn and was not a pain to develop for like PlayStation 2 that released one year earlier at a higher price point. Also Gamecube disc size and storage shouldt have been an issue at all... It did not stop developers to make games that required multiple discs and at least Gamecube supported various compression features which saved a ton of space in comparison to PlayStation 2 where you barely could compress your assets...

Wii was underpowered yet it was still a good step up when compared to PlayStation 2 or Xbox. Publishers and developers thqt worked on Gamecube had a head start and Wii was an good improvement and slightly easier to develop for. Motion controls was not the issue to begin with, they used it when necessary and experimented also Wii's install base allowed for many 3rd pary developers to make profit and good chunk of them made profit or atleast broke even... Nintendo took a risk like they do now with Wii U, Wii payed off... Anyway developing games for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 is far far more expensive and PlayStation 3 architecture was a hell to develop for and so was Xbox 360 that was at least more straight forward... HD twins had weird exotic CPUs that made programmers blow up their heads while Gamecube at least had a CPU that was also used by Apple back then in their products. Wii continued to use same CPU and GPU so you did not need to invest vast amount of R&D to make tools again from stratch... So it was more 3rd party friendly. Wii could have survived a couple of more years if Nintendo continued to make games for it and complexity of todays hardware makes Wii look like a toy now and Wii could have survived of handheld games being ported to it. Look at games that are on %DS... All of those would work on Wii better...

Wii U is not underpowered, Amazon FireTV and Ouya are underpowered for role of a game console and you still believe that myth that Wii U is underpowered... Please... Look at PlayStation Vita TV also... LMAO...

Wii U is not underpowered and denial about being underpowered needs to stop also it is a major step for 3rd parry developers since making tools and games on Wii U. Wii U's GPU is not exotic and completely alien as Gamecubes/Wii's since it is a conventional and it shares same VLIW architecture as Samsungs Adreno GPU's so anyone working on those should have some familiarity with Wii Us GPU also it is easier to develop for Wij U than Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 and that is why we see indie devs puttjng games on Wik U and a lot of them are 3D. Look at Shin'en, look at game Armillo or QUBE... You are forgeting that indies are also 3rd party if you dont count them then I guess you dont count Valve also, right?

Wii U has no issues like Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3... None at all. People that complained about CPU are inexperienced or just dont want to properly optimize for it. Pemalite confirmed that Wik Us CPU should wreck XBOX 360's and PlayStation 3's when properly utilized...

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



hated_individual said:

Capcom managed to fit in entire Resident Evil 2 with cutscenes in a single 64MB cartridge and Resident Evil 2 was on two 700+ MB CD's!

Yeah..
RE2 was on one cart, but all FMV cutscenes were noticibly compressed and downgraded, and all audio (which counts for the lions share of the game, and why the PSX version was split on to two disks) is highly compressed on the N64 version, making it sound horribly muffled and low quality, the same audio is clear on the PSX because its at the original recording quality and uses a large portion of disk space, neithe disk actually uses more than 550mb of data.

What you're basically saying is "Hah, i can fit a whole album on a 32mb flashdrive, but your shitty CD uses all "700+" mb for the same album, completely ignoring the fact that the CD audio is superior quality and the 64khz mp3's on the flashdrive sound like shit.

That isnt to say n64 sucks of course, just pointing out that games will use available space when they can, Nintendo gave Capcom use of the biggest catridge they had at 512MBit.

The point here is that getting the game on the cartidge wasnt as hard as you make it out to be, some custom compressors for texture data, but the rest was downsampling audio and FMV.

If you want approximates, for the PS1 disk 1,

total data used is 517MB
total of that used for video/voice is 386MB
total data used for demo mode (not used on n64 ver) is 16mb
Zero compression LZ for the BSS masks is 78.5mb
Leaves a grand total of actual game data 36.5mb

Compress all the other assets then play around with audio and video compression as well as compressing the BSS stored masks and you have yourself your 64mb rom (just remember to cut out the cutscene with Ada and Annette since it was removed from n64 ver as well).

hated_individual said:

Wii U is not underpowered, Amazon FireTV and Ouya are underpowered for role of a game console and you still believe that myth that Wii U is underpowered... Please... Look at PlayStation Vita TV also... LMAO...

Amazon FireTV and Ouya are underpowered in comparison to WiiU, WiiU is underpowered in comparison to PS4 and Xbox One, where do you get off on whining about him calling the WiiU underpowered by calling other devices underpowered too? All you are doing is the exact same as him, to people who actually like the FireTV and Ouya, do you not understand this?

Then you say "look at playstation vita tv", am i missing something?, if you made a mini-console out of a 3ds it would the exact same situation.



@Lucidium

Tell me something I don't know about Resident Evil 2 for Nintendo 64.

Nintendo 64 port of Resident Evil 2 is an amazing feat for its time and it trully showcases what a publisher/developer could have put on Nintendo 64 with enough effort... I wish Nintendo made a pack that could act as secondary cartridge, expansion pack containe 4MB of RAM so I wonder why Nintendo did not try to make a pack that would act as secondary cartridge. It would have solved some issues for some developers.

I dislike your double standards, dude... If Wii U was underpowered then it would not be technically possible to run those game on Wii U's hardware. Once an Android console has 128GFLOPS then it wont be underpowered and because of efficiency of todays hardware a 153.6 GFLOPS GPU of Athlon 5350 APU can run Bioshock Infinite at PC Low settings at 720P30FPS and that GPU is only fed by single stick 1600MHz RAM and if it supported dual channel then results would have been considerably better. Wii U would have run it twice the framerate or twice larger resolution... If it was a PC... At the very least...