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Forums - Sony Discussion - My estimated specs of the PlayStation 5

TheJimbo1234 on 21 April 2014
Turkish said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:
 


Uh, Sony is bringing cloud gaming to the masses next year, the highest graphical fidelity it'll have are PS3 games. Sony will not release PS4 level of quality titles on PS Now after until PS5 drops otherwise it makes no sense to keep selling the PS4 hardware. In 6-7 years time the infrastructure in America and Europe might be sufficient enough for PS4 cloud gaming, it will most certainly not be enough for streaming PS5 quality titles, even if it is, only the lucky few with good connection will be elligible to stream that big chunk of data fast enough. Sony will not base their next big product on something a few people can enjoy.

No one is saying 12GB will be used by the OS, just that such an amount could be reserved initially with a hypothetical 56-64GB ram size.  We dont know what new technology can come out in the 2020s that a living room machine definetly must have. Windows uses 1GB memory? I have 16GB ram in my win7 pc, currently using 9.4GB ram, of 2.5GB to Firefox alone.

4K is the next big thing, anyone who says that current day technology is enough is delusional. Refer to threads made  6-7 years ago and see where technology stood back then and refer to this thread in 2020 and see how once few people thought they'd be stuck with 8-16GB ram, 1080p tv's, 2013 technology forever. 

 

 

Erm, nope.

They will have the PS4 on sale for a good few years, but why replace it? All you need for cloud gaming is a platform with an internet connection. You say everywhere needs hyper fast internet? Again, wrong. You just need to match the bluray bit rate which many Western countries already can with their high end fibre packages (which will be standard in next few years).

I am very familiar with tech and programing and I can tell you that 12GB is absurd. OS's will become lighter and optimised due to phones and tablets. The only thing that will fatten them up are unnecessary extras such as voice command and booting up everything in the background for fast loading, although that technically is not the OS. As for Firefox, stop having so many tabs and videos open ^^. 

Just zip it about 4k. You don't understand it ergo end of debate. You have no idea about pixel rates etc so don't argue about it. You ignored my points about it being unseen and bluray which begs the question; what would make you change you mind?

Bluray bitrate is a whole lot more than Netflix bit rate lol. PS5 will not be a streaming console, no one but a few will be able to stream a native 4K game. The bit rate will be compressed to shit to get it running, its not gonna be possible in 6-7 years.

Good that you're familiar with tech but unfortunately you're not from the future, you were unable to predict what a next gen OS would need back in 2007. You'd probably say "OS needing more than the entire 512MB ram of the PS3 or 360? Preposterous!"

I understand your point about 4K but it doesnt make much sense. You claim that its benefits are visible on a +60" screen, it's not. I have a 50" 1080p plasma, sitting on it from 3 meters and it is not sharp enough, some people who have never seen a 1080p/4K screen in the same room from the same range will tell you otherwise.

4K is real and it's coming.

*rollseyes*

Bluray is only 56mbit. High end allow this, so next time do some research before making any comments based on ignorance.

Vista needed 1.5GB to run well so time to do a bit of research. Also what programming and OS experience do you actually have as you simply think "OMGOSH NUMBERZ!" rather than understading why memory addressing has increased.

You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*

Time to do more research buddy. Plasma are infamous for having shitty clarity compared to LED/IPS. A standard 1080p would suffice (and you need to look into pixel viewing distance as well to understand why 4k isn't offered on smaller tv's).



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Turkish on 21 April 2014
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:
 


Uh, Sony is bringing cloud gaming to the masses next year, the highest graphical fidelity it'll have are PS3 games. Sony will not release PS4 level of quality titles on PS Now after until PS5 drops otherwise it makes no sense to keep selling the PS4 hardware. In 6-7 years time the infrastructure in America and Europe might be sufficient enough for PS4 cloud gaming, it will most certainly not be enough for streaming PS5 quality titles, even if it is, only the lucky few with good connection will be elligible to stream that big chunk of data fast enough. Sony will not base their next big product on something a few people can enjoy.

No one is saying 12GB will be used by the OS, just that such an amount could be reserved initially with a hypothetical 56-64GB ram size.  We dont know what new technology can come out in the 2020s that a living room machine definetly must have. Windows uses 1GB memory? I have 16GB ram in my win7 pc, currently using 9.4GB ram, of 2.5GB to Firefox alone.

4K is the next big thing, anyone who says that current day technology is enough is delusional. Refer to threads made  6-7 years ago and see where technology stood back then and refer to this thread in 2020 and see how once few people thought they'd be stuck with 8-16GB ram, 1080p tv's, 2013 technology forever. 

 

 

Erm, nope.

They will have the PS4 on sale for a good few years, but why replace it? All you need for cloud gaming is a platform with an internet connection. You say everywhere needs hyper fast internet? Again, wrong. You just need to match the bluray bit rate which many Western countries already can with their high end fibre packages (which will be standard in next few years).

I am very familiar with tech and programing and I can tell you that 12GB is absurd. OS's will become lighter and optimised due to phones and tablets. The only thing that will fatten them up are unnecessary extras such as voice command and booting up everything in the background for fast loading, although that technically is not the OS. As for Firefox, stop having so many tabs and videos open ^^. 

Just zip it about 4k. You don't understand it ergo end of debate. You have no idea about pixel rates etc so don't argue about it. You ignored my points about it being unseen and bluray which begs the question; what would make you change you mind?

Bluray bitrate is a whole lot more than Netflix bit rate lol. PS5 will not be a streaming console, no one but a few will be able to stream a native 4K game. The bit rate will be compressed to shit to get it running, its not gonna be possible in 6-7 years.

Good that you're familiar with tech but unfortunately you're not from the future, you were unable to predict what a next gen OS would need back in 2007. You'd probably say "OS needing more than the entire 512MB ram of the PS3 or 360? Preposterous!"

I understand your point about 4K but it doesnt make much sense. You claim that its benefits are visible on a +60" screen, it's not. I have a 50" 1080p plasma, sitting on it from 3 meters and it is not sharp enough, some people who have never seen a 1080p/4K screen in the same room from the same range will tell you otherwise.

4K is real and it's coming.

*rollseyes*

Bluray is only 56mbit. High end allow this, so next time do some research before making any comments based on ignorance.

Vista needed 1.5GB to run well so time to do a bit of research. Also what programming and OS experience do you actually have as you simply think "OMGOSH NUMBERZ!" rather than understading why memory addressing has increased.

You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*

Time to do more research buddy. Plasma are infamous for having shitty clarity compared to LED/IPS. A standard 1080p would suffice (and you need to look into pixel viewing distance as well to understand why 4k isn't offered on smaller tv's).


"Bluray is only 56mbit" LOOOOOOL, average global dl speed is 18Mbps http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

And for the 3rd time: even if the "high end" allowed this, the average is too low, Sony is not gonna release a product only few can fully enjoy. Why do I keep repeating this, pay attention to my posts.

"You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*"

Panel type vs resolution, can't believe someone is actually making a comparison between the 2

LOL

But if you got confused in all your wisdom and PhD level academic research: plasma is better than LED, which is still an inferior LCD screen but confuses many people like you into thinking it's a whole different technology called OLED.

I have a Samsung plasma from years ago, my parents bought a Philips LED TV last year, the Plasma looks much better and more natural than the LCD display. I must admit, the LCD fooled me in the store, it fools many. It looks good in store demos, the screen is so flashy and "in your face" than a plasma that people think it's better.



freedquaker on 21 April 2014
Pemalite said:
globalisateur said:


Why only 2K? We already can do 4K at 30fps with ~4tflops, can we?

PS5 with at least 10-15tflops (and better technology) will obviously target 4K (and easily IMO) for gaming and movies, exactly like PS4 targeted 1080p for games and succeeded, we still have only one game sub-1080p, an unoptimized launch game at 900p and at 60fps).

I really hope that Microsoft understand that and really try to release a 4K hardware this time. The problem with XB1 is not really the Tflops but more the inefficiency of the API (directs X is the culprit), the bad memory architecture (just see what Sucker punch can do with a ~100MB fast video framebuffer with Infamous SS) and number or ROPS.

What they could add this time is a hybrid SSD hard drive to improve IO access.


Teraflops aren't important.
Compare the Radeon 5870 against the 6970, the 6970 has a slightly lower TFLOP number, but the 6970 is easily faster, both despite having more flops than a 7870, looses to the 7870, see the trend here?

You need SERIOUS horsepower to render games at 4k and beyond, my old three Radeon 7970's in crossfire struggled in many games at max graphics at 7680x1440, that's roughly 20% more pixels than 4k.
Now I have Quad-Radeon 290's and it's no longer an issue, not because of the "Flops" but because of the video memory amount and bandwidth, an extra card helps a ton too.

This level of performance is not going to be mainstream performance anytime soon.
The GPU upgrade cycle has also slowed down in recent years, no longer are we seeing giant leaps and bounds every year, it's shifted over to bi-yearly.

You would more than likely be looking at a QHD standard for the next consoles, that's 2560x1440, which is a resolution that's gaining momentum across mobile and the PC industry.

Agreed with all the points here except the final sentence. Although technically true and feasible, most TV sets are not configured with that kind of resolution but set at 1080p max. So although the consoles may be capable of such resolutions, the outputs will not be there. Let's remember the 10x increase from the PS2 era to the PS3 while the resolutions increased only within the feasible range from 480p to 720p at the time. The TV standardization is a very slow process. The standard 1080p TVs have been available for almost a decade but only gaining traction in the last few years. There is no certain standard resolution over 1080p right now other than 4K, and we need at least 10+ years to follow that kind of performance.

My point is, the next gen will either go 1080p or 4K (given current trends), and there is no way 4K will be feasible by then.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

freedquaker on 21 April 2014

Turkish said:

...........you were unable to predict what a next gen OS would need back in 2007. You'd probably say "OS needing more than the entire 512MB ram of the PS3 or 360? Preposterous!" ...........


The sentence here actually defeats itself and reflects and major misunderstanding of the OS requirements. Speaking of FreeBSD on PS4 in particular, the OS definitely does NOT need 3 GB RAM to operate. For all we know, it is perfectly fine with about half a gig. Sony originally wanted to go with only 4 GB, reserving 0.5 GB for the OS, and leaving 3.5 GB for the games, remember?

Given that the OS is still the same, then what happened? They were able to increase the RAM to 8 GB, and knowing that most developers & games do not need that amount of memory, they decided to RESERVE some amount of RAM to make the console

a) Future proof with upcoming features

b) They can always release some of the reserved RAM in the future with a software update, but once you release it, it's gone, you can't take it back, in order to add more multi-tasking features etc...

 

So if anything, the 3 GB reserved for the OS proves that games DO NOT NEED 8 GB. This is clear from the PC games today, there isn't a single game that uses more than 4-5 GB! The vast majority of games do not even use more than 2 GB (system), being limited to 32 bit, and only recently are we seeing a trend away from this, with the advent of the next-gen consoles.

In the past, however, this was never the case. The PC had always used more RAM than was available on the consoles. Most PC games in 2006 were already using way more than 256-512 MB RAM, which comes with 360 and PS3. So you clearly see a relative abundance of memory here, which means the next gen will not have this kind of jump. The large reserve for the OS does not mean the OSs are that hungry, on the contrary, it means Sony can afford to reserve that much RAM from the games as they simply don't need as much today.

Mark my words here, and remember how ridiculous your original claims will look by then. Things do not get just scaled up, there is always a technical REASON behind them. With your projections, there is NONE.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Dark_Feanor on 21 April 2014

I can´t imagine what a 12GB RAM for OS would be needed for.



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haxxiy on 21 April 2014

By 2019 we'll probably be stuck on 14nm. Power consumption is the main factor at play here, and its returns are diminishing with every manufacturing process shrink. That kind of computing power would require something at least comparable to the original PS3 / X360 in terms of casing, PSU and cooling - huge and expensive machines, a business model Sony and MS are not likely to return to.

Besides, the RAM increase will be smaller. The only reason RAM increased so much this gen is because consoles traditionally lagged way behind the average PC (the GC for instance was like 27 MB when a PC would push 128-256 MB) and needed to catch up due to OS, more complex features and whatnot. Expect a four times increase, maybe six times if consoles take longer to release and we're lucky.

Anyways, it's way too early. Too many variables. We don't even know if Sony is going to release a new console, or if it'll even be around in seven years, or if it'll opt to follow the business-as-usual scenario instead of pulling a Wii...



 

 

 

 

 

TheJimbo1234 on 21 April 2014
Turkish said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:
 


Uh, Sony is bringing cloud gaming to the masses next year, the highest graphical fidelity it'll have are PS3 games. Sony will not release PS4 level of quality titles on PS Now after until PS5 drops otherwise it makes no sense to keep selling the PS4 hardware. In 6-7 years time the infrastructure in America and Europe might be sufficient enough for PS4 cloud gaming, it will most certainly not be enough for streaming PS5 quality titles, even if it is, only the lucky few with good connection will be elligible to stream that big chunk of data fast enough. Sony will not base their next big product on something a few people can enjoy.

No one is saying 12GB will be used by the OS, just that such an amount could be reserved initially with a hypothetical 56-64GB ram size.  We dont know what new technology can come out in the 2020s that a living room machine definetly must have. Windows uses 1GB memory? I have 16GB ram in my win7 pc, currently using 9.4GB ram, of 2.5GB to Firefox alone.

4K is the next big thing, anyone who says that current day technology is enough is delusional. Refer to threads made  6-7 years ago and see where technology stood back then and refer to this thread in 2020 and see how once few people thought they'd be stuck with 8-16GB ram, 1080p tv's, 2013 technology forever. 

 

 

Erm, nope.

They will have the PS4 on sale for a good few years, but why replace it? All you need for cloud gaming is a platform with an internet connection. You say everywhere needs hyper fast internet? Again, wrong. You just need to match the bluray bit rate which many Western countries already can with their high end fibre packages (which will be standard in next few years).

I am very familiar with tech and programing and I can tell you that 12GB is absurd. OS's will become lighter and optimised due to phones and tablets. The only thing that will fatten them up are unnecessary extras such as voice command and booting up everything in the background for fast loading, although that technically is not the OS. As for Firefox, stop having so many tabs and videos open ^^. 

Just zip it about 4k. You don't understand it ergo end of debate. You have no idea about pixel rates etc so don't argue about it. You ignored my points about it being unseen and bluray which begs the question; what would make you change you mind?

Bluray bitrate is a whole lot more than Netflix bit rate lol. PS5 will not be a streaming console, no one but a few will be able to stream a native 4K game. The bit rate will be compressed to shit to get it running, its not gonna be possible in 6-7 years.

Good that you're familiar with tech but unfortunately you're not from the future, you were unable to predict what a next gen OS would need back in 2007. You'd probably say "OS needing more than the entire 512MB ram of the PS3 or 360? Preposterous!"

I understand your point about 4K but it doesnt make much sense. You claim that its benefits are visible on a +60" screen, it's not. I have a 50" 1080p plasma, sitting on it from 3 meters and it is not sharp enough, some people who have never seen a 1080p/4K screen in the same room from the same range will tell you otherwise.

4K is real and it's coming.

*rollseyes*

Bluray is only 56mbit. High end allow this, so next time do some research before making any comments based on ignorance.

Vista needed 1.5GB to run well so time to do a bit of research. Also what programming and OS experience do you actually have as you simply think "OMGOSH NUMBERZ!" rather than understading why memory addressing has increased.

You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*

Time to do more research buddy. Plasma are infamous for having shitty clarity compared to LED/IPS. A standard 1080p would suffice (and you need to look into pixel viewing distance as well to understand why 4k isn't offered on smaller tv's).


"Bluray is only 56mbit" LOOOOOOL, average global dl speed is 18Mbps http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

And for the 3rd time: even if the "high end" allowed this, the average is too low, Sony is not gonna release a product only few can fully enjoy. Why do I keep repeating this, pay attention to my posts.

"You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*"

Panel type vs resolution, can't believe someone is actually making a comparison between the 2

LOL

But if you got confused in all your wisdom and PhD level academic research: plasma is better than LED, which is still an inferior LCD screen but confuses many people like you into thinking it's a whole different technology called OLED.

I have a Samsung plasma from years ago, my parents bought a Philips LED TV last year, the Plasma looks much better and more natural than the LCD display. I must admit, the LCD fooled me in the store, it fools many. It looks good in store demos, the screen is so flashy and "in your face" than a plasma that people think it's better.

So you ignored the fact that the PS4 has not been laucnhed globally ergo why include everywhere, and following trends, the actual markets will reach 56mb by 2020. NICE ONE

Why the hell do Sony care about the low end? If you are on low end internet, how can you afford a new console?! Your points make no sense. As always, new products are aimed at those who are better off.

Yes - panel type is important when talking about clarity. The issue here is you really lack any knowledge on this and are not man enough to admit it and back down.

Plasma is so much better that it is being scrapped. Yup, sounds good to me. The pit falls of plasma and fall in cost of LED means plasma is dead. 

Also why are you ignoring the fact of human ability to see pixels? Admit it - 4k is useless for most people.



Chris Hu on 21 April 2014

Right now anything over 16GB is pretty much overkill even for a top of the line PC and consoles never need as much RAM as PC's. So even six years from now I doubt it would need that much RAM. My guess would be that 24GB would be more then enough RAM.



Turkish on 21 April 2014
TheJimbo1234 said:
Turkish said:


"Bluray is only 56mbit" LOOOOOOL, average global dl speed is 18Mbps http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

And for the 3rd time: even if the "high end" allowed this, the average is too low, Sony is not gonna release a product only few can fully enjoy. Why do I keep repeating this, pay attention to my posts.

"You have a plasma and you wonder why 4k is better? *facepalm*"

Panel type vs resolution, can't believe someone is actually making a comparison between the 2

LOL

But if you got confused in all your wisdom and PhD level academic research: plasma is better than LED, which is still an inferior LCD screen but confuses many people like you into thinking it's a whole different technology called OLED.

I have a Samsung plasma from years ago, my parents bought a Philips LED TV last year, the Plasma looks much better and more natural than the LCD display. I must admit, the LCD fooled me in the store, it fools many. It looks good in store demos, the screen is so flashy and "in your face" than a plasma that people think it's better.

So you ignored the fact that the PS4 has not been laucnhed globally ergo why include everywhere, and following trends, the actual markets will reach 56mb by 2020. NICE ONE

Why the hell do Sony care about the low end? If you are on low end internet, how can you afford a new console?! Your points make no sense. As always, new products are aimed at those who are better off.

Yes - panel type is important when talking about clarity. The issue here is you really lack any knowledge on this and are not man enough to admit it and back down.

Plasma is so much better that it is being scrapped. Yup, sounds good to me. The pit falls of plasma and fall in cost of LED means plasma is dead. 

Also why are you ignoring the fact of human ability to see pixels? Admit it - 4k is useless for most people.


"PS4 has not been laucnhed globally"

It's available in 72 countries, it launched in every continent, this is a global launch lmao.

"the actual markets will reach 56mb by 2020"

Dude figures PS5 game streaming will be 56Mbit lol, for the first time he makes a bold prediction lol

"Why the hell do Sony care about the low end?"

Why the hell would they not care? Not everyone lives in the same living standard as you do, this is a very narrowminded outlook on the world.

"panel type is important when talking about clarity"

You're right, plasma is so blurry I can't see shit

"The issue here is you really lack any knowledge on this and are not man enough to admit it and back down."

 

Plasma is a much better technology than LCD, it's so good that my 4 year old plasma beats out the latest LCD tv's

Brightness is a non issue at home, only people who are in a brightly lit store get fooled by the LCD's flashy brightness. Plasma is natural, like the good old CRT screens.

I'd take a less eye popping, but natural looking TV over a TV with bad contrast, blacks that look gray, bad viewing angles, bad motion blur, bad input lag, bad color accuracy. In short: lcd is bad at everything that is supposed to be good about a TV. Plasma disadvantages are: more heat, power, not the brightest, in short: minor disadvantages that do not impact your viewing experience unlike LCD. Nasty screen technology, just nasty. Glad OLED is coming out.



Pemalite on 21 April 2014
freedquaker said:

Agreed with all the points here except the final sentence. Although technically true and feasible, most TV sets are not configured with that kind of resolution but set at 1080p max. So although the consoles may be capable of such resolutions, the outputs will not be there. Let's remember the 10x increase from the PS2 era to the PS3 while the resolutions increased only within the feasible range from 480p to 720p at the time. The TV standardization is a very slow process. The standard 1080p TVs have been available for almost a decade but only gaining traction in the last few years. There is no certain standard resolution over 1080p right now other than 4K, and we need at least 10+ years to follow that kind of performance.

My point is, the next gen will either go 1080p or 4K (given current trends), and there is no way 4K will be feasible by then.

4k is already upon us and getting cheaper every day, QHD has been with us for donkey's years.
Console generations take a long ass time.

And there is benefit to running games at QHD/4k even on a 1080P panel thanks to downsampling.

So we will have to agree to disagree on this one, there were movements for a shift to 2k/4k before this generation started.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--