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Forums - Sony - PS Vita doesn't deserve bad reputation

RenCutypoison on 14 April 2014
michael_stutzer said:
RenCutypoison said:
It's a good system. It doesn't have as much games as the 3DS, that's true. But it has as much valuable games as the 3DS in my eyes, so I bought one, and I'm not disappointed.

If you count the number of good games Vita is just as good if not better than 3DS. Looking at the Metacritic (I know, I know not a perfectly good metric but gives a very good idea), there are 39 80+ rated 3DS games, while the number for the Vita is 42. Between 70-80, there are 40 Vita games, 37 for 3DS. At the very top 3DS has a few more good games, I agree. However, in terms of pure numbers Vitais ahead.


It's not about the quantity, metacritic or anything.

It's about love and passion. I love gaming, and I love Atelier, Persona and Ys. People should not be saying "Vita has no games" but "Vita has no games I have an interest in". And if it's true for someone, he definetely should not get a vita. And if the Vita's collection don't appeal to someone right now it probably never will because it seems they will keep the same audience. (AKA 20-35 yo neckbeards)



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NintendoPie on 14 April 2014

I agree. Don't give blame to the system itself, give blame to the company that's been handling it badly.

Sony, why do you abuse the Vita?



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 14 April 2014
Kresnik said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Define what counts as big game to you? And give me some examples as well just so I know we are in the same page here cause to me a game like SSB, Bravely Default, Pokemon and etc are big games cause they a) sell a lot of units b) sell a lot of systems c) quality, high-budget titles... Granted there are 3 games that got announced not too long ago for the vita but they once again, cater to that niche audience that the vita is known for and not much else. But if your defination is different, thats fine too.


I don't particularly want to get into a debate with you but I just wanted to address a few points in this.

@ bolded - you named 3 3DS titles.  That alone should've set off alarm bells that you shouldn't include the word "budget" in there.  But anyway, regardless, I'm willing to bet that the budget for the 3 Vita games that were recently announced is at least in the same ballpark those games you listed.  Freedom Wars has been in development for 3 years; looks plenty polished and flashy for a Vita game.  Oreshika is a bit more on the cheaper side of things, but still, we're talking about Japanese-developed handheld games that aren't particularly pushing graphical boundaries - they're not going to have massive differences in budgets.

And can we say anything for the quality of Smash; Oreshika; Soul Sac & Freedom Wars yet?  None of them are released in the west.  3 of them aren't released anywhere yet.

@ underlined - did Bravely Default sell a lot of systems?  It sold a good amount of software.  Was it selling copies to people who bought a 3DS at the same time or was it selling to people who already had the system?  Seems an odd one to throw in there.

Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Also, unlike games like Playstation All Stars, SSB has enough differences such as Stages, Single Player, Multiplayer and Adventure mode to warrant it counting as a different game since the only things that are the same are the characters and items but virtually everything else is different which is why anyone would want to buy the game twice if you have both systems

You'd hope so too, since they charge you twice for it, which they didn't for PSABR.

I will admit, bravely default wasn't the best example for systems seller so my mistake on that part

But as for Pokemon and SSB vs Freedom Wars, Pokemon took about 3.5 years to create which is about the same time but 500 employees worked on it so do you know how many people worked on Freedom Wars? Cause development time doesn't really mean too much unless there are a lot of people working on it. And also, I obviously ment high budget for handheld titles

http://nintendoeverything.com/pokemon-x-and-y-development-details-took-3-5-years-make-500-staffers/

And as for smash bros, Sakurai is working with Namco but I can't really find the staff members one either. And yes, we won't know the quality although we can assume for smash bros given its track record. But my point of SSB being a big game with vs the 3 vita games being a niche game is still correct imo. a)b) will happen without a doubt but c) is iffy and hard to find since the same company is working on two different platforms which would be unfair to say that the budget for smash bros overall is the same as just the 3ds version but it will probably be on par with the other two... But what the other two will probably be missing is a)b)

Anyway, thanks for your input and sorry for the late reply/mistake(s)



                  

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Kresnik on 14 April 2014
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

I will admit, bravely default wasn't the best example for systems seller so my mistake on that part

But as for Pokemon and SSB vs Freedom Wars, Pokemon took about 3.5 years to create which is about the same time but 500 employees worked on it so do you know how many people worked on Freedom Wars? Cause development time doesn't really mean too much unless there are a lot of people working on it. And also, I obviously ment high budget for handheld titles

http://nintendoeverything.com/pokemon-x-and-y-development-details-took-3-5-years-make-500-staffers/

And as for smash bros, Sakurai is working with Namco but I can't really find the staff members one either. And yes, we won't know the quality although we can assume for smash bros given its track record. But my point of SSB being a big game with vs the 3 vita games being a niche game is still correct imo. a)b) will happen without a doubt but c) is iffy and hard to find since the same company is working on two different platforms which would be unfair to say that the budget for smash bros overall is the same as just the 3ds version

Anyway, thanks for your input and sorry for the late reply/mistake(s)


I'm not saying Vita has big games compared to 3DS btw.  Obviously it doesn't, otherwise it'd be selling like the 3DS.  But I think bringing budgets into it is completely daft given we're talking about low-production value Japanese games across the board (of which I'd say the production values were higher on the Vita games to be honest).

If we really want to discuss team sizes, Freedom Wars is a collaboration between Shift/Dimps/Japan Studio.  Dimps has 180 employees.  Shift has 70 employees. Can't find any figures for Japan Studio and obviously every single person isn't going to be working on this game, but the fact that it's a collaboration between 3 studios that's been in development for 3 years suggests that this is a higher-scale development than most.

I just don't see how you think the budget on these games in somewhat higher.  Even if we discount Bravely Default since you admitted including it was an error (it's a Silicon Studio handheld title.  It won't have a large budget), Nintendo is notoriously good with budgets and games that make high profits off low investments.  There's nothing to suggest that that has changed for 3DS development (WiiU, perhaps) so I just didn't see why you felt the need to drag that into your argument.  Kinda took away from the points you were trying to make.



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Wagram on 14 April 2014

It's the best handheld i've ever owned. Every experience i've played on the machine just trumps all the competition for me.



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Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 14 April 2014
Kresnik said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

I will admit, bravely default wasn't the best example for systems seller so my mistake on that part

But as for Pokemon and SSB vs Freedom Wars, Pokemon took about 3.5 years to create which is about the same time but 500 employees worked on it so do you know how many people worked on Freedom Wars? Cause development time doesn't really mean too much unless there are a lot of people working on it. And also, I obviously ment high budget for handheld titles

http://nintendoeverything.com/pokemon-x-and-y-development-details-took-3-5-years-make-500-staffers/

And as for smash bros, Sakurai is working with Namco but I can't really find the staff members one either. And yes, we won't know the quality although we can assume for smash bros given its track record. But my point of SSB being a big game with vs the 3 vita games being a niche game is still correct imo. a)b) will happen without a doubt but c) is iffy and hard to find since the same company is working on two different platforms which would be unfair to say that the budget for smash bros overall is the same as just the 3ds version

Anyway, thanks for your input and sorry for the late reply/mistake(s)


I'm not saying Vita has big games compared to 3DS btw.  Obviously it doesn't, otherwise it'd be selling like the 3DS.  But I think bringing budgets into it is completely daft given we're talking about low-production value Japanese games across the board (of which I'd say the production values were higher on the Vita games to be honest).

If we really want to discuss team sizes, Freedom Wars is a collaboration between Shift/Dimps/Japan Studio.  Dimps has 180 employees.  Shift has 70 employees. Can't find any figures for Japan Studio and obviously every single person isn't going to be working on this game, but the fact that it's a collaboration between 3 studios that's been in development for 3 years suggests that this is a higher-scale development than most.

I just don't see how you think the budget on these games in somewhat higher.  Even if we discount Bravely Default since you admitted including it was an error (it's a Silicon Studio handheld title.  It won't have a large budget), Nintendo is notoriously good with budgets and games that make high profits off low investments.  There's nothing to suggest that that has changed for 3DS development (WiiU, perhaps) so I just didn't see why you felt the need to drag that into your argument.  Kinda took away from the points you were trying to make.

Well... Technically, I never said it has higher budget than the vita games, it was just part of the 1/3 criteria that makes a game a big game in my eyes. Now obviously, handheld games are lower budget than console games but I am referring to handheld games that are higher budget when compared to most handheld games if that makes any sense. Like, you look at most of the games on vita and 3ds that get made by a lot of companies, they don't take as much money to make as games such as Uncharted, Killzone, SSB, MK7 and etc. Like that cod game didn't take as much money to make as Uncharted did and Rayman Origins didn't take as much money to make as MK7 and etc. Kinda like that is what I am referring to



                  

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Kresnik on 14 April 2014
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Like, you look at most of the games on vita and 3ds that get made by a lot of companies, they don't take as much money to make as games such as Uncharted, Killzone, SSB, MK7 and etc. Like that cod game didn't take as much money to make as Uncharted did and Rayman Origins didn't take as much money to make as MK7 and etc. Kinda like that is what I am referring to


I understand that, but I still don't think the Nintendo-sided games you're listing are anywhere near the Sony-sided games you're listing.  I'd imagine Killzone is head and shoulders above all those other games you listed in terms of development costs (and I'm not sure why you're including Rayman - obviously a port is going to cost less).

The highest budget 3DS game, I'd have thought, would've been Resident Evil Revelations, and I'd imagine it cost a fair bit more than MK/SSB.  Which would explain why Capcom weren't overly pleased with the sales they got on 3DS.

I think we're just going to keep going round and round in circles though since we don't have any actual figures on budgets, just speculation.



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Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 14 April 2014
Kresnik said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Like, you look at most of the games on vita and 3ds that get made by a lot of companies, they don't take as much money to make as games such as Uncharted, Killzone, SSB, MK7 and etc. Like that cod game didn't take as much money to make as Uncharted did and Rayman Origins didn't take as much money to make as MK7 and etc. Kinda like that is what I am referring to


I understand that, but I still don't think the Nintendo-sided games you're listing are anywhere near the Sony-sided games you're listing.  I'd imagine Killzone is head and shoulders above all those other games you listed in terms of development costs (and I'm not sure why you're including Rayman - obviously a port is going to cost less).

The highest budget 3DS game, I'd have thought, would've been Resident Evil Revelations, and I'd imagine it cost a fair bit more than MK/SSB.  Which would explain why Capcom weren't overly pleased with the sales they got on 3DS.

I think we're just going to keep going round and round in circles though since we don't have any actual figures on budgets, just speculation.

I agree! Good talk though, never really had a chat this long with a mod before loll. Pretty interesting! You guys certainly know your stuff, thats for sure!



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

*Sound Of Rain on 14 April 2014

No system does.

Every system has fans and if you like it that's all that matters.



forevercloud3000 on 14 April 2014
bananaking21 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Maybe Sony should market it as an actual handheld instead of an accessory? Seemed to help the PSP, you know having real games on it.


lol, that would indicate that sony actually markets the vita. 


Which is the handheld's only real problem......image. 

In actual execution the system gets more games than 3DS, they sell reasonably well to recoop dev cost, Games are highly praised by those who have actually played them, it is well designed piece of hardware, functions quick and swift, offers multiple pricing structures for all sorts of would be buyers(I think its ridiculous that many try to say it is too expensive when it has the power of a low grade tablet/game console but fits in a couat pocket all the while being less than half the price).



      

      

      

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