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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox One and Titanfall bundle makes the Microsoft game console a better deal than the PS4

DerNebel on 28 March 2014
A_C_E said:
DerNebel said:

It is actually. Value is completely subjective and what adds value and what doesn't is different for every individual.

When the PS4 is the best selling system that means, that it has the best value to the most people, it's just that simple.

So when the author says the X1 gives the most value right now, then that is completely his "biased" (cause everybody is biased in some way) opinion.

It isn't actually. Value is based on how much you think something is worth. Just because you think something is worth X amount of money does not mean you have X amount of money. There's a difference between value proposition and budget/expense.

Value and top selling do not mean the same thing no matter how right you think you are.

The thing is it's completely impossible for us to quantify the amount of people that think the X1 has better value but can't afford it or the amount of people that think the PS4 has better value but can't afford it. The only way for us to realistically quantify the value perception is through sales.

So if out of those 10.6 million people that have bought a X1 or PS4 already the majority bought PS4s then that simply means, that to that majority the PS4 proposed the better value, cause let's be realistic here, if you can save up $400 for a console this early in its life then you can also safe $500 if you think this is the better deal. And if the PS4s continues to outsell the X1 despite all these deals, then that also means that the majority of people view the PS4 as a package with higher value.



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HoloDust on 28 March 2014

Hm, following that logic, I guess something like Mad Catz M.O.J.O + 250 one dollar games shits all over PS4 and XOne? Cause, nothing can beat that "value", right?



LivingMetal on 28 March 2014

As I mentioned in a previous thread the Xbox One offers value. I'm looking for gaming.



MoHasanie on 28 March 2014
LivingMetal said:
As I mentioned in a previous thread the Xbox One offers value. I'm looking for gaming.

So you think the X1 isn't a good gaming machine? 



    

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fatslob-:O on 28 March 2014
TheBlackNaruto said:
fatslob-:O said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Atually no consumers more so determine what is most affordable/popular/accessible not what is the most high quality product. A Chey cobalt sells more than a Bentley but it is widely known that a Bentley is a higher quality car. A McDs burger sales more than a Lobster or Steak but again the Lobster/Steak is of higher quality than the McDs burger. Does that take anything away fromt he sales though no...because the McDs burger is more affordable and accessible. Does it take anything away from the Chevy Cobalt no because again to the AVERAGE consumer the Cobalt is more affordable and accessible....not of higher quality.

But I see your point and what you are trying to say/do...hence the reason I said you sir....are good lol

Then how is quality defined ? Isn't it more important to know what your customers think about the product rather than the qualities of your own product ? 

Quality is defined as a high level of excellnce or value if I am not mistaken. And yes what consumers think about your product is very imoprtant even with that the AVERAGE consumer would still feel that just for reference a Bugatti is of higher quality than a Toyota Corolla even though they would be driving the Corolla. Or are you telling me that if you had a choice between a Nissan Versa and a Lamborghini that you would take the Nissan Versa because it seels more? That's why consumers mostly determine with what they purchase what is most affordable/accessible/popular. The sales debate has so many different directions that it is crazy lol. But you again have a very valid point none the less in your perspective...

@Bold What would high level of exellence mean ? Monetary value holds no weight in comparsion to the MARKET value. Quality is defined very vaguely on your part ... 

Why would they feel that the bugatti is of higher quality ? Being high end =/= high quality. Why wouldn't the corolla be of higher quality ? Doesn't affordibilty and accessibility ALSO factor in to the total perceived quality of the product also by the market ? The problem with your example is that it doesn't exist in real life! Customers want a solution for their issues and the Nissan Versa would do that RATHER than having no forms of transportation which means that IT is the more effective solution than not being able to have a lamborghini. This also speaks volumes about a customers decision! If they think that one solution is better than the other than it also implies that the one product is more ideal than the other which would also imply that it's of higher quality.

Being able to reach more customers is important because it will say alot about the quality of the solution. What good is a solution that no one can touch ? 

Steamboxes are known to be of a higher quality than consoles according to the hardcore PC gamers because it is said that they offer more but that isn't the case because customers simply reject it at a whole level due to the fact that it's quirky controller design and non controlled OEMs act as if they are attempting to sell them an overpriced PC. 



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greenmedic88 on 28 March 2014

It is a better package when you stack a $50 discount on a $500 MSRP console and add a $60 game to the package.

Some retailers are offering free games other than Titanfall along with the $50 discount, so this isn't only for consumers who wanted to play Titanfall on a new console.

The problem is, most consumers are simply looking at the $399 MSRP of the PS4 added to the public perception that the PS4 is the new console to buy for those who are truly on the fence and have no particular brand loyalty.

As someone who already bought a PS4 with light gaming habits, I don't think even a $399 XB1 would be enough to entice me to pick up a second new console, mostly because there aren't any games I'd be playing on it currently (I had no intention of buying Titanfall for my PC or XB360). The majority of console gamers seem to stick with one platform each generation whether it's due to time constraints (only a minority of gamers treat gaming like a part time job) or they just don't want to have to buy a console to play a few games that aren't on their console.

But if you were on the fence over which to buy, were in the market for a new console and had interest in Titanfall, the current deals you can pick up make it a much easier decision.



TheBlackNaruto on 28 March 2014
fatslob-:O said:

@Bold What would high level of exellence mean ? Monetary value holds no weight in comparsion to the MARKET value. Quality is defined very vaguely on your part ... 

Why would they feel that the bugatti is of higher quality ? Being high end =/= high quality. Why wouldn't the corolla be of higher quality ? Doesn't affordibilty and accessibility ALSO factor in to the total perceived quality of the product also by the market ? The problem with your example is that it doesn't exist in real life! Customers want a solution for their issues and the Nissan Versa would do that RATHER than having no forms of transportation which means that IT is the more effective solution than not being able to have a lamborghini. This also speaks volumes about a customers decision! If they think that one solution is better than the other than it also implies that the one product is more ideal than the other which would also imply that it's of higher quality.

Being able to reach more customers is important because it will say alot about the quality of the solution. What good is a solution that no one can touch ? 

Steamboxes are known to be of a higher quality than consoles according to the hardcore PC gamers because it is said that they offer more but that isn't the case because customers simply reject it at a whole level due to the fact that it's quirky controller design and non controlled OEMs act as if they are attempting to sell them an overpriced PC. 

So basically what you are saying is consumers determine what is afforadable/accesible to them. And that if they had the choice to get that Bugatti or Lamb they would but they can't because the it is not feasble for the average consumer. Hence a "solution" came that they can get another product that was "ideal" for them. Not of a higher quality than the fore mentioned products but "ideal" and "afforadable". Not saying that theya renot quality products because they indeed are. They are just not as high quality as other products which is fine.

Your last example basically states the same thing that while the PC steamboxes are of higher quality they are also not the most affordable when compared to consoles nor as easy to adapt to. Hence the reason the consoles sale more, still doesn't take away from the fact that the PC expereince is of higher quality though. See you are trying to make the statement that more sales equals the best quality. So then if that were the case what would be the need of these other more expensive products seeing as teh average person can't afford them? Why to we need Red Lobster, Longhorn, Lonestar, 54th, Sybergs etc and other resturants if they are not of a higher value than say McDs or Taco Bell? I mean both Taco Bell and McDs sell tons more so why the need of these more expensive less quality places?

Albeit I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from and what you are saying...a college professor of mine had us divide into teams and do this same exact debate(you would have been awesome for the other side lol) and we came to the conclusion that while both views are not wrong they are also not 100% correct because there are too many different factors to make one or the other absolute! But I do love talking about this though because it is always good to see the different views!



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

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LivingMetal on 28 March 2014
MoHasanie said:
LivingMetal said:
As I mentioned in a previous thread the Xbox One offers value. I'm looking for gaming.

So you think the X1 isn't a good gaming machine? 


Never said that which wasn't the point to begin with. 



Mystro-Sama on 28 March 2014
fatslob-:O said:
sales2099 said:
fatslob-:O said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
Value wise it is a better value there is no denying that when you look at the deals. Of course it boils down to opinion and what someone wants. But as far as the value/cost goes if you were to put the PS4 next to this XB1 deal then it is better. No need to argue about it or bring up the past when the PS3 had the better value/cost because it was also true for the PS4 back then.

Just because this isn't making the XB1 SELL better than the PS4, it DOES NOT mean that it is an incorrect statement...geez some defensive folks around here lol....and this is coming from a Sony fan lol.

Nobody here is acting defensive from my side ... It's a known fact that value is determined by consumers. You really can't analyse by price but rather you have to do it by market demand. 

No you see that in itself is defensive. The Vita has alot going for it. Better hardware, PS Plus free games, and solid games library. I can say that the Vita is a better value then the 3ds. Doesn't change that the 3ds is kicking its ass. Consumers decide what wins, value is a completely different aspect. You assume consumers think rationally. Many tablets do what a Ipad can do for hundreds cheaper, yet Ipad beasts them all. Brand mindshare, bandwagon hopping, etc. is very much different from the value a product actually poses.

Just admit your playing the see-saw effect. I get it, its your turn to brag so don't pretend to have any "logic" behind your argument. Just say what we are all thinking: "PS4 is selling better and therefore your argument is invalid". It's ok, I was there and now its your turn. But dont pretend to add any substance to your response when there is none.

Can you seriously say that Vita has a solid game library when it's software sales are flopping around and about ? If a consumer has the power to decide what wins then why don't they have the power to determine what's more valuable according to the market ? Why aren't consumers rational ? All they want is a solution and it is a FACT that WII delivered a better value then either the PS360. Maybe it's because the ipad may be a better value ? Has it ever occurred to you that that their is more to value than the price of a product ? If no one sees a point to buy your cheaper solution then how can it be the better solution ? 

Hey, I ain't exactly in this console war LOL. Although it's extremely funny to see you get so hurt over a statement. 


Half of Vita's software sales are digital lol



fatslob-:O on 28 March 2014
TheBlackNaruto said:

So basically what you are saying is consumers determine what is afforadable/accesible to them. And that if they had the choice to get that Bugatti or Lamb they would but they can't because the it is not feasble for the average consumer. Hence a "solution" came that they can get another product that was "ideal" for them. Not of a higher quality than the fore mentioned products but "ideal" and "afforadable". Not saying that theya renot quality products because they indeed are. They are just not as high quality as other products which is fine.

@Bold But how do you know that their not as high quality if not even higher than the high end products ? An ideal product is the best one as defined by the MARKET! There would be no guarantee that they would all buy lamborghini's even if all the customers would have a lot of money. What customers want the most is a solution to their issues! 

Your last example basically states the same thing that while the PC steamboxes are of higher quality they are also not the most affordable when compared to consoles nor as easy to adapt to. Hence the reason the consoles sale more, still doesn't take away from the fact that the PC expereince is of higher quality though. See you are trying to make the statement that more sales equals the best quality. So then if that were the case what would be the need of these other more expensive products seeing as teh average person can't afford them? Why to we need Red Lobster, Longhorn, Lonestar, 54th, Sybergs etc and other resturants if they are not of a higher value than say McDs or Taco Bell? I mean both Taco Bell and McDs sell tons more so why the need of these more expensive less quality places?

Some steamboxes are affordable but what really kills it is that valve aren't controlling the prices of some OEMs inflating them. PC gaming wasn't ALWAYS higher quality than it is now! In fact if it were before the new millenium I would argue that consoles were a higher quality experience than PCs and it showed in SALES. A customers experience on their platform is very important feedback and people agreed that the games on consoles were better which factored into their quality. Hence why people kept saying that PC gaming was dying in the past but all of it stopped in the middle of last generation when PC gaming started getting higher quality releases from consoles. Just because their are businesses at the high end does not mean that they don't get to exist. Some businesses are meant for a certain segment of the market but overall it doesn't disregard the fact that the market sees a higher value in some fast food restraurants than others. 

Albeit I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from and what you are saying...a college professor of mine had us divide into teams and do this same exact debate(you would have been awesome for the other side lol) and we came to the conclusion that while both views are not wrong they are also not 100% correct because there are too many different factors to make one or the other absolute! But I do love talking about this though because it is always good to see the different views!

Was the other side underwhelming or what ? It's always good to see things from a different perspective and I think you got the view of some engineering student LOL.