Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: If they could speak, they'd be saying "damn you Wii U!" Even if Nintendo had released Mario Galaxy 3 or Mario 64-2 instead, things would be no different, except maybe there'd have been a little less whineing at the E3 reveal. The anger and disappointment at the reveal was the sound of lost sales; people who would have gobbled up Mario 64 II turned their nose up at 3D World. I for one adore 3D World, but from a sales perspective, it was not a smart move. Except the only people angry at the reveal were rabbid forum go-ers who bought the game anyway. I take it you still don't understand that we're the minority, a tiny one at that. It made perfect sense as 3DLand is enroute to sell about as much or more than 64 n Galaxy so the series is clearly popular, and they probably found it was the variant best suited for multiplayer.

But 3D World will be lucky to sell as much as Sunshine, another game that was not what gamers wanted.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: If they could speak, they'd be saying "damn you Wii U!" Even if Nintendo had released Mario Galaxy 3 or Mario 64-2 instead, things would be no different, except maybe there'd have been a little less whineing at the E3 reveal. The anger and disappointment at the reveal was the sound of lost sales; people who would have gobbled up Mario 64 II turned their nose up at 3D World. I for one adore 3D World, but from a sales perspective, it was not a smart move. Except the only people angry at the reveal were rabbid forum go-ers who bought the game anyway. I take it you still don't understand that we're the minority, a tiny one at that. It made perfect sense as 3DLand is enroute to sell about as much or more than 64 n Galaxy so the series is clearly popular, and they probably found it was the variant best suited for multiplayer. But 3D World will be lucky to sell as much as Sunshine, another game that was not what gamers wanted.

Nah, people just didn't want the GCN as they've just been wanting Nintendo consoles less and less barring Wii with it's motion controls. A game can only sell as much as the console allows it to, and Sunshine did great for itself with that in mind, and so will SM3DW and NSMBU. MK8 and SSB4 are also gonna be pulling numbers similar to their GCN counterparts. Afterall you can't possibly expect Mario Kart to do 30+ million again on a console with sub 20 million sales.

The 2nd half of Mario 3D World honestly isn't that different from what a Galaxy 3 would be (I mean it even has Galaxy levels and a playable you-know-who). Mario 3D Land sold great and caused a large rise in 3DS sales.

People don't want something it's called the WII U. It's time to stop blaming individual games for a system no one but a few Nintendo loyalists want. Mario 3D World is one the best games Nintendo has made in the last ten years. It's a far better game than Mario Sunshine ever was. DKC: Tropical Freeze is also a great game.

No one asked for a $350 XBox 360-ish system with minimal third party games that they all can already play on the PS3/360 they already (yes ... even most Wii owners who were interested in gaming bought a 360/PS3 at some point ... the ones who didn't were never serious about gaming and are now getting their game fix for free/99 cents a pop on their phones/tablets). No one asked for a comically oversized controller with a low-res touch panel in the middle of it that can only stream games when its in the same room as the controller.

Nintendo simply cannot sell consoles unless 

A) They have full third party support (like the NES and SNES did)

or 

B) They have a hardware gimmick that everyone instantly falls head over feet for (like the Wiimote) which is new and trendy to casuals (extremely tricky to pull off). 

When they have a system that is:

C) Neither of the above

You are talking about a niche system. Mario ain't doing sh*t to save a system like that. That's all this is, nothing mind boggling is happening here. 

At some point I think you just have to acknowledge that Nintendo really isn't that great at selling home consoles. They do well with portables, but they haven't really had a strong console generation from year 1 through year 5 since the SNES which was like 20 years ago now. When ever they fix certain mistakes, they'll find a way to make 3-4 new critical ones each generation, barring a Wiimote miracle. 

Nintendo was trying to do what sony did with playstation 1 to playstation 2, sell with brand recognition. There are many reasons gamecube failed and having high horsepower was not one of them. I actually think if GameCube had weaker specs it would have done even worse.

Here is why Gamecube lost the sales race:
1) playstation had name brand recognition (wii u tried to replicate this but the casual audience has flocked to iphone that's why there's an overall shrinkage of console sales) NES to SNES did this and Xbox to xbox 360 did this. Nintendo needs to realize that the hardcore is a loyal fan base.

2) the mini dvd format was off putting to developers of large memory games.

3) swaying casual and hardcore that ps2 had added benefit of being a DVD player. Me being a nintendo fanboy even gave in to this for a DVD player.

4) having the best 3rd party support- nintendo never saw metal gear solid 2,3 , Maximo, tekken, street fighter, rygar, grand theft auto, etc..this made me very jealous before I eventually bought the ps2 . I was having fatigue having played zelda and mario since NES days(15 years).  I was also pissed that many of these games originated on NES and SNES and I grew up with them ( so to those pissed about bayonetta lol I know how you feel x 100)

So there u have it SUPERIOR POWER is not the reason the Gamecube failed and here are my educated reasons why

I totally agree with your post except that I think if nintendo created a console that had great first and 3rd party games then they would see better sales.. They also need a new name for their console and create a new image rather than being called "kiddy" by all my peers

Einsam_Delphin said: Nah, people just didn't want the GCN as they've just been wanting Nintendo consoles less and less barring Wii with it's motion controls. A game can only sell as much as the console allows it to, and Sunshine did great for itself with that in mind, and so will SM3DW and NSMBU. MK8 and SSB4 are also gonna be pulling numbers similar to their GCN counterparts. Afterall you can't possibly expect Mario Kart to do 30+ million again on a console with sub 20 million sales.

One of the biggest factors in what makes people want a console is its software.

Sunshine is part of the reason GCN didn't sell too hot, just as 3D World is part of the reason Wii U isn't selling so hot.

curl-6 said: Michael-5 said: curl-6 said: Mario 64 was a big leap, which is why it shifted serious hardware. 3D World was a 3DS sequel, so it didn't. How is Galaxy any different? It's the sequel to Super Mario 64. 3D Land and World have the same core design. Galaxy and 64 do not.

The difference isn't as big as you make it out to be. You did say 3DS is like WiiU because of Zelda OoT/WW. The difference from Galaxy & Mario 64 is smaller. Same core design, different level design. They are both still 3D Mario platformers, slightly more on the challenging side (where 3D World/Land are a bit simplified).

Michael-5 said: curl-6 said: 3D Land and World have the same core design. Galaxy and 64 do not. The difference isn't as big as you make it out to be. You did say 3DS is like WiiU because of Zelda OoT/WW. The difference from Galaxy & Mario 64 is smaller. Same core design, different level design. They are both still 3D Mario platformers, slightly more on the challenging side (where 3D World/Land are a bit simplified).

No, I didn't.

curl-6 said: Zero999 said: curl-6 said: 3DS is doing fine, it doesn't need help. Wii U on the other hand is in desperate need. try cleaning your eyes because I didn't say 3ds needs help. I said 3ds will BENEFIT from smash bros, just like any console. the series will only grow by reaching the portables, just like mario kart did. What's the better option at this point, 3DS benefiting, or Nintendo saving their bleeding home console division?

there's no bleeding home console division and you wrongly assume one option excludes the other.

curl-6 said: Michael-5 said: curl-6 said: 3D Land and World have the same core design. Galaxy and 64 do not. The difference isn't as big as you make it out to be. You did say 3DS is like WiiU because of Zelda OoT/WW. The difference from Galaxy & Mario 64 is smaller. Same core design, different level design. They are both still 3D Mario platformers, slightly more on the challenging side (where 3D World/Land are a bit simplified). No, I didn't.

Well you did say that DS had "no Twilight Princess, no Smash Bros, no Mario Galaxy; it didn't offer cheaper alternatives to all Wii's system sellers the way 3DS does for Wii U.", implying that 3DS has an equivalent Zelda to WiiU.

Anyway it doesn't matter, compared to Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros, every other Nintendo franchise (except Wii Sports/Wii Fit/Nintendogs/Brain Age) doesn't even come close. Mario Kart Wii sold 30+ million, and Mario Kart DS/NSMB/NSMB Wii all sold around 25 million.

DS, like 3DS, has Mario Kart/New Super Mario Bros.

If you're going to argue that Galaxy/Super Mario 64 are different because of gravity affects, then you have to accept Mario Kart 8 is vastly different from 7 for the same gravity affects. If you do this Wii had similar Mario Karts (much bigger franchise) and WiiU has similar Mario Platformers.

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The reason why WiiU is failing is because of the Gamepad and the lack of Wii Sports. Simple as that. 3DS has nothing to do with WiiU's sales, the people who play Mario Kart on hand helds are a different audience to those who play split screen on a console. Same goes for Mario (heck being co-op on the WiiU probably helps sales), same goes for NSMB, Mario Party, etc.

Argue all you like, but it doesn't matter. Your opinion =/= fact