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Forums - Microsoft - DirextX 12 - no stream, updates

Arkaign said:
BenVTrigger said:
This will have very little effect on Xbox One games, as consoles already have incredibly low level access.

PC however will see some pretty incredible gains from this if it delivers how they advertised it.

Agreed. However, it's possible that many launch-era XB1 titles didn't take great advantage of the already low-level API offered in the final pre-launch XB1 dev kit, simply due to not having enough time. So we can think of those as sort of sloppy ports to the hardware, as fast as possible, just to meet deadlines.

While DX11 vs. DX12 won't make much difference on XB1, what will make a fairly decent positive difference is a dev starting work on a title with final hardware in hand, working through it through the entire process, having all of the optimizations testable with final hardware at any point along the way, etc. Improved tools in the new SDK should help as well.

As opposed to how the launch titles were made, which was something like : here's a high end PC, and 'target' specs, now go make a game, we'll come back to you when the final hardware is ready and work with you in getting it ported to final hardware. IOW, a port vs. a natively written game from start to finish on a mature SDK and known hardware specs.

And of course, all of this would have been the same had there not even been a DX12 XB1 announcement. DX12 is not that meaningful for XB1 at all. But yeah, for PC it's a huge deal, as DX11 on PC did not in any way allow for low-level API draw call optimization, which is the 9,000lb monster that holds GPUs back.


Agreed, great post.

The main thing I'm seeing from DX12 that will probably actually help the Xbox One quite a bit, is it appears to make porting between X1 and PC much easier. Porting Forza 5 to PC using only 4 man months is pretty astounding. Especially taking into account they ported it to a PC using an Nvidia card while the X1 utilizes AMD.

This could be a pretty big deal and make multi-plat games much better than they have been at launch. People thinking DX12 is this "secret sauce" that will suddenly make the Xbox One the most powerful thing ever are mistaken, but I do think you will start to see some tangible improvements in games.  



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kowenicki said:
BenVTrigger said:
This will have very little effect on Xbox One games, as consoles already have incredibly low level access.

PC however will see some pretty incredible gains from this if it delivers how they advertised it.


steam box killer?

At these prices? 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/valve-steam-machines-specs/

Steam Machines don't need a killer. PC gamers will continue to build their own computers, while console gamers will stick with Sony/MS/Nintendo. These things will sell to the Valve faithfuls and few else. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Arkaign said:

That would be cool, but the real world marketplace in 4G/LTE basically precludes that from a practical perspective today. The big cell companies have all but killed truly unlimited 4G, and the fastest LTE networks like Verizon charge a ludicrous amount of money for the priveledge on a 'more you use, more you pay' scale.

The real problem is that the explosion of smartphones wasn't really taken into account by the FCC and governing bodies, so the frequencies we have out there in combination with wireless network infrastructure cannot support a large number of customers using 4G/LTE (and beyond) willy-nilly. It's a distinctly premium service.

For that reason, streaming HD games over 4G is unlikely to be reasonably supportable. Hell, it's only barely possible with wired connections of decent low-latency+high bandwidth in limited urban marketplaces as is.

There is Wifi so even if 4G services are too prohibitive you could just use that instead to stream games from your PC or X1. 



SubiyaCryolite said:
Im confused. Is Forza 5 a DX12 game or its being patched


there will be a patch after a system update unless they made it so DX version call is per game and not per system.



kowenicki said:
BenVTrigger said:
This will have very little effect on Xbox One games, as consoles already have incredibly low level access.

PC however will see some pretty incredible gains from this if it delivers how they advertised it.


steam box killer?


The new OpenGL will have similar properties to DX, what Steam OS brings to the table is if we have more dev support for Linux, then we'll not be bound to just Windows in the future, and that's a good thing for consumers since driver improvements on Steam OS will benefit Linux across the board and not just Steam OS itself.



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BenVTrigger said:
kowenicki said:
BenVTrigger said:
This will have very little effect on Xbox One games, as consoles already have incredibly low level access.

PC however will see some pretty incredible gains from this if it delivers how they advertised it.


steam box killer?


Actually yes this is quite a huge blow to Valves whole Steambox / Steam OS gameplan. One of the big selling points of Steam OS was essentially turning PC's into a console like environment to take strain off of hardware.  DX12 is doing exactly that and looking at some of the slides on how it optimizes across CPU cores and actually can free up GPU processing I don't see too much reason to ever have Steam OS.  And I LOVE me some Steam.

Honestly I'm pretty confused why Steam is even doing the whole Steam OS / Steambox gameplan. It really makes very little sense.


Because above



dahuman said:

-snip-

The steambox is one of the most WORTHLESS and STUPID ideas from Valve. I could not be more fucking dissappointed in them than I am right now. 

Just what is that POS aimed for ? I would rather be bound to windows than to have not have a shit ton of games. It is MICROSOFT that set standards for PC gaming and they have done more with Directx than what valve EVER will with their steambox. 



fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:

-snip-

The steambox is one of the most WORTHLESS and STUPID ideas from Valve. I could not be more fucking dissappointed in them than I am right now. 

Just what is that POS aimed for ? I would rather be bound to windows than to have not have a shit ton of games. It is MICROSOFT that set standards for PC gaming and they have done more with Directx than what valve EVER will with their steambox. 


But notice I never mentioned Steam Box but always just said Steam OS? XD



dahuman said:

But notice I never mentioned Steam Box but always just said Steam OS? XD

And will steam OS be largely adopted by PC gamers ? 

The whole stupid stunts that valve keeps pulling with steambox or steam OS makes me believe that their insane. I thought almost ALL publishers and developers were smart but valve just showed me that their more retarded than what EA will ever be. 



kowenicki said:
BenVTrigger said:
kowenicki said:
BenVTrigger said:
This will have very little effect on Xbox One games, as consoles already have incredibly low level access.

PC however will see some pretty incredible gains from this if it delivers how they advertised it.


steam box killer?


Actually yes this is quite a huge blow to Valves whole Steambox / Steam OS gameplan. One of the big selling points of Steam OS was essentially turning PC's into a console like environment to take strain off of hardware.  DX12 is doing exactly that and looking at some of the slides on how it optimizes across CPU cores and actually can free up GPU processing I don't see too much reason to ever have Steam OS.  And I LOVE me some Steam.

Honestly I'm pretty confused why Steam is even doing the whole Steam OS / Steambox gameplan. It really makes very little sense.


That was my thinking. Its a huge blow to the whole rationale for Steambox.  Whats the point of it now?


0 USD vs however much MS wants to charge for Windows, and opensource software out the asshole.