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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS preys on Consumer Ignorance with Xbox 360/One

gergroy said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
gergroy said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
Many business employ such devious tactics.

But what im surprised is that unlike any other industry, anti-consumer policies in the games indsutry are damage controlled by consumers themselves. It hurts my mind thinking about why people would do it.

People defended DRM, people defend games ditching SP but charging the same price as other games with SP and better MP, and last week I even came across one guy saying MS' parity clause doesnt affect consumers (WTF!)

I'm glad though that the majority of word of mouth is factual and does not use stupid logic. It needs to keep going though to make sure all "soccer moms" and "softball dads" know what they are spending money on and where it will be invested in the future.

how does the parity clause affect consumers?  

Because it forces developer to ready an xbox version and delay other versions of the game until it has.

If the indie development team is small, the game is delayed on all platforms just for xbox.... like xbox is supposed to be the first place they have to go to.

Sure, they dont HAVE to, but in that case xbox fans lose out. Either way someone loses out.

You can imagine what a cluster fuck it would cause if everyone company had such a ridiculous clause. The funny thing is that MS popularised the whole timed exclusivity thing but when others started doing it, they come up with this crap.

so... that doesn't seem to really affect consumers though.  that is more of a developer issue.  sure, you can say it will delay the game, but like you said, that is a developer choice.  It certainly doesn't take any choices away from the consumer.

Now, is the parity clause crap for indie developers?  definitely!!  I just don't see it as a big consumer issue like you are making it out to be.  

It does because not all indies have the resources to develop multiple versions of a game simultaneously.

Its why some indies are on xbox and not on other systems yet, and why some indies launched on PS and have claimed they dont want to work with xbox. Either way gamers on both sides have lost out. Without the policy the indie games would have made it to both systems.

There is no reason why the policy should exist. The way I see it is MS are just throwing a tantrum because they got beaten at their own timed exclusivity game which they started.

Also this is exactly the point of my original post. You have no reason to defend the policy, it is of no use or no benefit to anyone, yet you still defend it.



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gooch_destroyer said:
NeoRatt said:
Meanwhile Sony is truthful, righteous, and a bunch of really nice people...

So take a look at the promises Sony made about the PS3...

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/02/sony-ps3-promises/


Cool. I've found some from Nintendo too.

Iwata says Wii will avoid major droughts that plagued GameCube. (March 2007)

“When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says, ”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum.”

Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/libr...0607qa/02.html

Iwata promises that 3DS will avoid major droughts that plagued Wii and DS. (January 2011)

“It’s important that you be able to supply software with no pause,” said Iwata. “With the DS and Wii, following the titles that were released at launch, the momentum dropped when there was a gap in software releases. We’re making plans so that this type of thing won’t happen.”

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/10/iwat...ware-with-3ds/

Iwata promises that Wii U will avoid major droughts that plagued 3DS and Wii. (October 2011)

“ As we learned a bitter lesson with the launch of the Nintendo 3DS, we are trying to take every possible measure so that the Wii U will have a successful launch.”
“The company was unable to launch much-anticipated first-party titles for the Wii nor for the Nintendo 3DS in a timely fashion in the first half of the term. In the game platform business, creating momentum is very important, but the momentum was once lost, and it has had a large negative effect on our sales and profits.”

Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com...on-iwata-vows/

Iwata apologizes for Wii U drought in January and February. (January 2013)

“I apologize to those supporting Wii U about the lack of titles in January and February.”


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...ftware-drought

BONUS COMBO BREAKER - Reggie promises no drought in 2014

“The way we’re going to be different is, we’re gonna certainly have a steadier pace of games – both for Wii U and for 3DS.”
“The marketing activity is going to be constant throughout the entire year. You tease me a little bit that ‘boy the first half [of 2013] was a little quiet,’ and y’know what, you look back and it was. We’re not going to be making that same mistake in 2014.”

__________________________________________________________
Via Emily Rogers: http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013...stern-culture/

 

I shouldn't derail this thread.

Frankly, all gaming companies lie, stretch the truth, and twist it to try and get our dollars...  Anyone that thinks otherwise has no brain.



Just figured this out now? The Xbox is the American capitalist console based on perception and nickel and diming the masses whilst they believe the company has their act together where it counts. They decrease their negatives by increasing their positives. How you decrease your negatives? You shine the advertisement light on products that your partners make to take away from the void of games that you create yourself. You associate with your competitors teams so longtime gamers give a damn about your offerings. This is old news. MS is extremely deceptive. Their marketing techniques should be public knowledge by now. Microsoft isnt a creative company and their lack of growing first party  offerings after over ten years in the industry is a testament to this fact. They dont have the superior third party gimmick to fall back on. Its pretty much down to superior exclusives or nothing now.



fps_d0minat0r said:
gergroy said:

so... that doesn't seem to really affect consumers though.  that is more of a developer issue.  sure, you can say it will delay the game, but like you said, that is a developer choice.  It certainly doesn't take any choices away from the consumer.

Now, is the parity clause crap for indie developers?  definitely!!  I just don't see it as a big consumer issue like you are making it out to be.  

It does because not all indies have the resources to develop multiple versions of a game simultaneously.

Its why some indies are on xbox and not on other systems yet, and why some indies launched on PS and have claimed they dont want to work with xbox. Either way gamers on both sides have lost out. Without the policy the indie games would have made it to both systems.

There is no reason why the policy should exist. The way I see it is MS are just throwing a tantrum because they got beaten at their own timed exclusivity game which they started.

Also this is exactly the point of my original post. You have no reason to defend the policy, it is of no use or no benefit to anyone, yet you still defend it.

This in regards to MS demanding timed exclusivity and/or release parity with PSN? Because I can tell you first hand that it benefits the XBox gamer. We don't have to wait while someone else gets to play or we enjoy a 1st class experience with getting it first. If there was any place that MS truly cared for their gamers, it was the indie scene with 360.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

fps_d0minat0r said:
gergroy said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
gergroy said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
Many business employ such devious tactics.

But what im surprised is that unlike any other industry, anti-consumer policies in the games indsutry are damage controlled by consumers themselves. It hurts my mind thinking about why people would do it.

People defended DRM, people defend games ditching SP but charging the same price as other games with SP and better MP, and last week I even came across one guy saying MS' parity clause doesnt affect consumers (WTF!)

I'm glad though that the majority of word of mouth is factual and does not use stupid logic. It needs to keep going though to make sure all "soccer moms" and "softball dads" know what they are spending money on and where it will be invested in the future.

how does the parity clause affect consumers?  

Because it forces developer to ready an xbox version and delay other versions of the game until it has.

If the indie development team is small, the game is delayed on all platforms just for xbox.... like xbox is supposed to be the first place they have to go to.

Sure, they dont HAVE to, but in that case xbox fans lose out. Either way someone loses out.

You can imagine what a cluster fuck it would cause if everyone company had such a ridiculous clause. The funny thing is that MS popularised the whole timed exclusivity thing but when others started doing it, they come up with this crap.

so... that doesn't seem to really affect consumers though.  that is more of a developer issue.  sure, you can say it will delay the game, but like you said, that is a developer choice.  It certainly doesn't take any choices away from the consumer.

Now, is the parity clause crap for indie developers?  definitely!!  I just don't see it as a big consumer issue like you are making it out to be.  

It does because not all indies have the resources to develop multiple versions of a game simultaneously.

Its why some indies are on xbox and not on other systems yet, and why some indies launched on PS and have claimed they dont want to work with xbox. Either way gamers on both sides have lost out. Without the policy the indie games would have made it to both systems.

There is no reason why the policy should exist. The way I see it is MS are just throwing a tantrum because they got beaten at their own timed exclusivity game which they started.

Also this is exactly the point of my original post. You have no reason to defend the policy, it is of no use or no benefit to anyone, yet you still defend it.


Am I defending it?  I believe I called it crap no?  I just think it isn't a consumer issue as much as it is a developer issue. I believe the vast majority of consumers wouldnt give a crap about it, while the vast majority of developers care a heck of a lot about it.  My point is you are confusing the grieved party. 



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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

You know what's great. My TA's bought an XB360 Arcade for our lounge. They even bought a game and the OG kinect. Unfortunately, without XBL we couldn't even use the Kinect because it required an update, and the 360 was smart enough to know that the Kinect needed an update. Unfortunately, XBL was required to download the update, and without the update the Kinect was literally useless. Not to mention the lack of hdd meant I couldn't store the update or even save games with out a thumbdrive.

Talk about a great value.

There was no possible ways to get an internet connection at all? 4gb model is plenty to download the update and save games. 



prayformojo said:
Mr Puggsly said:
prayformojo said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
However bad MS was with the 360 Sony was worse with the PS3 from 2006-2010. Does no one remember how badly Sony treated fans from 2006-2010? The $599 price alone is worse than anything MS did except RROD. And no, the 360 was not more "expensive" than the PS3 during that time.

Sony did change, but it took a lot.

They were EASILY more expensive if you wanted the 360 to do what PS3 did.

$400.00 for the core system

$60.00 for the wireless adaptor

$20.00 for play and charge kit

$60.00 to play online

$200.00 for HDDVD add on

 

Total? Without taxes, around $740.00 US. And even spending THAT much, you still ended up with a HDD that was 40GB smaller and no HDMI.

The core system was actually $299.

Ultimately, Xbox 360 had a lower price of entry and the core system alone is/was suitable for the average gamer.

 

You're right. The $400.00 system was called the "pro" console, I forgot.


Also, Xbox Live was $50 until 2010.



The Op is spot on.



Wright said:

Other than bullshitting with timed exclusivity instead of actually exclusives, and losing some of its games by puting them on PC (Thus reducing 360's overall value), I disagree with the points made here.




Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

prayformojo said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
However bad MS was with the 360 Sony was worse with the PS3 from 2006-2010. Does no one remember how badly Sony treated fans from 2006-2010? The $599 price alone is worse than anything MS did except RROD. And no, the 360 was not more "expensive" than the PS3 during that time.

Sony did change, but it took a lot.

They were EASILY more expensive if you wanted the 360 to do what PS3 did.

$400.00 for the core system

$60.00 for the wireless adaptor

$20.00 for play and charge kit

$60.00 to play online

$200.00 for HDDVD add on

 

Total? Without taxes, around $740.00 US. And even spending THAT much, you still ended up with a HDD that was 40GB smaller and no HDMI.

Well 1st it was $400m for the Pro in 2005 with the 20 gig hardrive.

That alone played the same games as a PS3, and in the case of multiplats, played better versions. In short, the core experience was not only $200 cheaper, but superior.

And Not only was it $50 for Gold at the time, disregarding sales that are year round and easy tot ake advantage of., the quality of service was far superior then anything PSN offered until several years after PS3 launched.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.