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Forums - Gaming - Hey guys hear me out regarding PC vs Current Gen "Graphics" (and a bit on Wii U and mobile gaming)

BenVTrigger said:
The difference between PC and console won't be small. It will be enormous. It in fact already is. That being said when new generations of engines come out you will begin to see PC vastly outpacing consoles again.

Witcher 3 alone will be proof of this. Sorry but the console versions won't even be close. They'll be great I'm sure as CD Projekt Red are incredible but there will be a substantial difference.

That being said yes gameplay is important but judging PS4 / XB1 graphics on launch games is in no way indicative of what games will look like when true next gen engines start releasing.

New engines are becoming more and more resource friendly actually!  its not because of consoles, more so because of mobiles, and even GPUs and CPUs are getting more and more energy efficient, Haswell for example is not really different from Ivy Bridge, its just less energy hog, same with GPUs NVIDiA's flagship is the Titan, and they're trying to make it more affordable to people and have more stable releases which is why AMD is catching up ,thats their game but NVIDIA has the flagship still.

This isn't a bad thing its a good thing, and it means more ease of porting and more emphasis on creativity rather than "Try to run this on this console" challenge

If you've tried any SDK you'll see what I mean, its not marketing bullshit that developers say "endless creative possibility" when developing for the newer consoles its false about endless nothing is endless but its true that it allows more creative thinking than older consoles because the core of the consoles is now PC architect rather than console architect.

We will not see more games RUNNING better than LOOKING better, same with Witcher 3 by the way, what are you seeing in it? it looks the same as Witcher 2 on PC (which is my favorite looking game still by the way except for the "God rays" ) they're more focused on making it a full sandbox experience and have better believable AI and a live world, THIS is better than just making the game barely run expect on the highest GPUs and then dumbing down the experience ala "Unchartify" it.



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SvennoJ said:

Developers now are not trying to push boundaries  in technical depertmant  they're trying to stabalize technology and focus on making things more playable and less buggy this time around with less focus on making "BETTER GRAPHICS!!"

Sorry, but that's just wishful thinking. As long as people keep choosing the better looking game when placed side by side, and reviewers give buggy games a pass in favor of amazing spectacles, devs will keep doing as they have been doing. So far day 1 patches are going no where, as well as games released with bugs.


Mobile and Indie games are always popular to drag into the gameplay over graphics debate. However over 90% of them are crap. Most of the remainder are 1 trick ponies, that usually become repetitive / boring after an hour, or are only interesting to a small niche. And ofcourse it is easier to make a bug free decent performing indie game with simple game mechanics than a complex 60+ hour open world rpg.

 

@ first part.

but what happened to Ryse? no one liked that game even though it had "amazing graphics", and AC while it sold a lot it was very buggy same with BF4 , now their next installment they are FORCED to make things right, even if the next game is probably going to be the same anyways they'll focus less on graphics and more of actually running the game right this time, and if they didn't it will just suck because it really doesn't have any other thing good going on it.

@second part 

yes, Mobile games rely on 1 trick ponies which is why developers should see that making a game that doesn't give you a shit ton of tutorials and go straight into the meat of the game, they will focus more on the storyline , gameplay...etc , you know the good stuff, like i said Dark Souls is a good example on how to make a good game, I know its weird that I compare that game to mobile games but they actually have more in common than the "long movie-like tutorial " games, it just throws you in the game and expects you to be smart enough to figure it out on your own, even if you are not smart enough to press buttons and try to know what button does what you will learn out of curiousity, don't make games interactive movies, make games more interactive that should be the future of gaming not "Hollywood blockbuster graphics!"

Edit : Funny i forgot to mention Animal Crossing or Pokemon , see both of these games let you discover things on your own without giving you much tutorial you talk to towns people and they tell you "Did you know! you can press A to do this!" "you can catch more pokemon if you have etc" 

they don't have pop up screens that tell you to "Press X to Jason" "Press Up to go Up" , Yet they're ultra popular.



BenVTrigger said:
The difference between PC and console won't be small. It will be enormous. It in fact already is. That being said when new generations of engines come out you will begin to see PC vastly outpacing consoles again.

Witcher 3 alone will be proof of this. Sorry but the console versions won't even be close. They'll be great I'm sure as CD Projekt Red are incredible but there will be a substantial difference.

That being said yes gameplay is important but judging PS4 / XB1 graphics on launch games is in no way indicative of what games will look like when true next gen engines start releasing.


The difference between a high end gaming PC to console will be pretty big yeah. But consoles will have the advantage over the average PC's for a while too come. Which means the general public will be mostly impressed by "next gen". This will obviously vary from region to region but should hold true for the most part.

Most PC gamers only play a handful of games and they are in no way demanding. These games can be played with onboard GPU's from amd and intel.

It really doesnt matter much how big the theoretical difference is between consoles and high end PC's...the amount of people that have these high end machines is insignificant. And to make things worse theres no reason for devs to push games if they are limited by consoles. Which is why PC gamers love devs like CD Project who take the time to push their games

And btw The Witcher 2 ran at full settings on my PC (minus uber sampling obviously XD) and looked glorius! It really was a next gen experience last gen. Considering that the PS4 gpu is arguably stronger than the GPU i have at the moment i would say the console version might put up a good fight...depending on how far CD projects has moved along with their engine.



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PullusPardus said:
Shinobi-san said:
While gameplay is the all important factor when judging a game...i do believe there is a market for games that play well and look amazing too. This market is a bit different from the mobile market...

I take a game like uncharted...i thoroughly enjoy playing uncharted. It has solid gameplay but the gameplay inst the sole focus of the game. The game places equal emphasis on atmosphere, story, cinematics, set pieces etc. And together these elements put together make for one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. Its right up there with Diablo 2 and mario brothers.

So yeah i think striving for better looking games or at least making that option available to developers should still be one of the goals platform manufacturers try and attain.

Also with more powerful hardware, it doesn't only increase visual aspects but it can add to games in ways we never thought of before. More realistic AI, bigger more vivid worlds etc.

Yet on the so called "next gen" consoles and with a game like thief, that doesn't seem to be a technical marvel, we are struggling to hit 1080p 30fps. This catches peoples attention..because is that all next gen is? Is that the promise of next gen? Remembering that console limitations have a massive impact on the speed at which things develop on PC's as well...

So yeah graphics and technology certainly isn't the be all end all..and gameplay will always be king but its a good thing that we keep track of technological advancements and constantly benchmark how far we have come and what benefits gamers can reap from these advancements.

and that is what I said in the topic. 

you want "Better graphics" and was disappointed that developers don't want to push hardware to it's limit and make terrible buggy games like they did last gen, that isn't good for the industry, they should be focusing on making games run better.

I dont think thats what you said in your OP....

You said dont celebrate when games have "AMAZING GRAPHIX". Im saying why not? Why not strive for better graphics? Games dont have to be shit in order to have good graphics.



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PullusPardus said:
SvennoJ said:

Developers now are not trying to push boundaries  in technical depertmant  they're trying to stabalize technology and focus on making things more playable and less buggy this time around with less focus on making "BETTER GRAPHICS!!"

Sorry, but that's just wishful thinking. As long as people keep choosing the better looking game when placed side by side, and reviewers give buggy games a pass in favor of amazing spectacles, devs will keep doing as they have been doing. So far day 1 patches are going no where, as well as games released with bugs.


Mobile and Indie games are always popular to drag into the gameplay over graphics debate. However over 90% of them are crap. Most of the remainder are 1 trick ponies, that usually become repetitive / boring after an hour, or are only interesting to a small niche. And ofcourse it is easier to make a bug free decent performing indie game with simple game mechanics than a complex 60+ hour open world rpg.

 

@ first part.

but what happened to Ryse? no one liked that game even though it had "amazing graphics", and AC while it sold a lot it was very buggy same with BF4 , now their next installment they are FORCED to make things right, even if the next game is probably going to be the same anyways they'll focus less on graphics and more of actually running the game right this time, and if they didn't it will just suck because it really doesn't have any other thing good going on it.

@second part 

yes, Mobile games rely on 1 trick ponies which is why developers should see that making a game that doesn't give you a shit ton of tutorials and go straight into the meat of the game, they will focus more on the storyline , gameplay...etc , you know the good stuff, like i said Dark Souls is a good example on how to make a good game, I know its weird that I compare that game to mobile games but they actually have more in common than the "long movie-like tutorial " games, it just throws you in the game and expects you to be smart enough to figure it out on your own, even if you are not smart enough to press buttons and try to know what button does what you will learn out of curiousity, don't make games interactive movies, make games more interactive that should be the future of gaming not "Hollywood blockbuster graphics!"

Edit : Funny i forgot to mention Animal Crossing or Pokemon , see both of these games let you discover things on your own without giving you much tutorial you talk to towns people and they tell you "Did you know! you can press A to do this!" "you can catch more pokemon if you have etc" 

they don't have pop up screens that tell you to "Press X to Jason" "Press Up to go Up" , Yet they're ultra popular.

Ryse was a lost cause since they started it as a Kinect project. The only way to 'save' it was by adding eye catching graphics and making it a launch game. I didn't experience any bugs in AC4. The story missions sucked as usual, combat was still bland, and free running still too sticky. Exploring the vast open seas made it all worth it though. I don't know who is going to force them to make it better, but I hope they listen to the mission feedback ratings. Any annoying tail and eaves drop mission got 1 star from me.

Dark souls was buggy too, and also had a button prompt tutorial, albeit an imcomplete one. In some parts the slowdown almost made it impossible to fight. It also went too far in not explaining any of the game mechanics. It didn't reale become fun for me after checking out some wikis with risk of many spoilers. Get rid of movie like tutorials for sure, but at least explain all the controls in the options instead of finding out 20 hours later that you can jump over gaps. Plus have info somewhere what all the stats are for. Dark souls suffers from the same bad game design as any other rpg in that matter. It lets you level up and assign stats in fast succession at the start when you know least what it's for. By the time you know what's going on it takes ages to level up further to fix things.

Most games let you disable button prompts nowadays. The movie like intro stays ofcourse, since it still serves the purpose of setting the scene and providing a bit of back story. Different genres, different mechanics.



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That is a lot of incorrect wild assumptions you have made.
For the last 5 years devs have not been able to improve graphics, so why are you claiming that they have? They capped everything at 360/ps3 level and the PC got shafted for that.
They do want better graphics now as it is a selling point. Sure, they will add more things, but like every product, it has to look different to sell - graphics are key to that change.

No "tech" demo has come out for years, so god knows what you are on about there. Also Crysis was a great game, with fantastic AI. It just did what all PC games use to do - push the computer so you would want to upgrade.



Shinobi-san said:
BenVTrigger said:
The difference between PC and console won't be small. It will be enormous. It in fact already is. That being said when new generations of engines come out you will begin to see PC vastly outpacing consoles again.

Witcher 3 alone will be proof of this. Sorry but the console versions won't even be close. They'll be great I'm sure as CD Projekt Red are incredible but there will be a substantial difference.

That being said yes gameplay is important but judging PS4 / XB1 graphics on launch games is in no way indicative of what games will look like when true next gen engines start releasing.


The difference between a high end gaming PC to console will be pretty big yeah. But consoles will have the advantage over the average PC's for a while too come. Which means the general public will be mostly impressed by "next gen". This will obviously vary from region to region but should hold true for the most part.

Most PC gamers only play a handful of games and they are in no way demanding. These games can be played with onboard GPU's from amd and intel.

It really doesnt matter much how big the theoretical difference is between consoles and high end PC's...the amount of people that have these high end machines is insignificant. And to make things worse theres no reason for devs to push games if they are limited by consoles. Which is why PC gamers love devs like CD Project who take the time to push their games

And btw The Witcher 2 ran at full settings on my PC (minus uber sampling obviously XD) and looked glorius! It really was a next gen experience last gen. Considering that the PS4 gpu is arguably stronger than the GPU i have at the moment i would say the console version might put up a good fight...depending on how far CD projects has moved along with their engine.


This is an open world game

And CD Projekt Red already responded to somone who asked about maxing Witcher 3 on PC. They laughed and their response was, "Prepare to upgrade your PC."

Witcher 3 will be the Crysis of last gen. Only the absolute top end PC's will run it at Max settings.



BenVTrigger said:
Shinobi-san said:
BenVTrigger said:
The difference between PC and console won't be small. It will be enormous. It in fact already is. That being said when new generations of engines come out you will begin to see PC vastly outpacing consoles again.

Witcher 3 alone will be proof of this. Sorry but the console versions won't even be close. They'll be great I'm sure as CD Projekt Red are incredible but there will be a substantial difference.

That being said yes gameplay is important but judging PS4 / XB1 graphics on launch games is in no way indicative of what games will look like when true next gen engines start releasing.


The difference between a high end gaming PC to console will be pretty big yeah. But consoles will have the advantage over the average PC's for a while too come. Which means the general public will be mostly impressed by "next gen". This will obviously vary from region to region but should hold true for the most part.

Most PC gamers only play a handful of games and they are in no way demanding. These games can be played with onboard GPU's from amd and intel.

It really doesnt matter much how big the theoretical difference is between consoles and high end PC's...the amount of people that have these high end machines is insignificant. And to make things worse theres no reason for devs to push games if they are limited by consoles. Which is why PC gamers love devs like CD Project who take the time to push their games

And btw The Witcher 2 ran at full settings on my PC (minus uber sampling obviously XD) and looked glorius! It really was a next gen experience last gen. Considering that the PS4 gpu is arguably stronger than the GPU i have at the moment i would say the console version might put up a good fight...depending on how far CD projects has moved along with their engine.


This is an open world game

And CD Projekt Red already responded to somone who asked about maxing Witcher 3 on PC. They laughed and their response was, "Prepare to upgrade your PC."

Witcher 3 will be the Crysis of last gen. Only the absolute top end PC's will run it at Max settings.

Like i said depending on how far CD project has moved with their engine.

Im pretty sure il just need to upgrade my gpu to be able to run the Witcher 3 at near max settings plus maybe a bit of overclocking.

Theres a lot of settings that are very taxing on systems but dont do much for the visuals. Ubersampling really didnt do much imo and it was a massive hit on performance.

In any case the point of my post was to highlight that next gen consoles are better speced that your average PC's. I wasnt saying it will beat out a fully maxed out PC version. It will however probably hold up well. CD project are amazing devs.

We havent had a true crysis since crysis btw. A gtx780ti will most likely run the Withcher 3 quite well. The witcher games are optimised quite well, crysis wasnt.



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Shinobi-san said:
BenVTrigger said:
Shinobi-san said:
BenVTrigger said:
The difference between PC and console won't be small. It will be enormous. It in fact already is. That being said when new generations of engines come out you will begin to see PC vastly outpacing consoles again.

Witcher 3 alone will be proof of this. Sorry but the console versions won't even be close. They'll be great I'm sure as CD Projekt Red are incredible but there will be a substantial difference.

That being said yes gameplay is important but judging PS4 / XB1 graphics on launch games is in no way indicative of what games will look like when true next gen engines start releasing.


The difference between a high end gaming PC to console will be pretty big yeah. But consoles will have the advantage over the average PC's for a while too come. Which means the general public will be mostly impressed by "next gen". This will obviously vary from region to region but should hold true for the most part.

Most PC gamers only play a handful of games and they are in no way demanding. These games can be played with onboard GPU's from amd and intel.

It really doesnt matter much how big the theoretical difference is between consoles and high end PC's...the amount of people that have these high end machines is insignificant. And to make things worse theres no reason for devs to push games if they are limited by consoles. Which is why PC gamers love devs like CD Project who take the time to push their games

And btw The Witcher 2 ran at full settings on my PC (minus uber sampling obviously XD) and looked glorius! It really was a next gen experience last gen. Considering that the PS4 gpu is arguably stronger than the GPU i have at the moment i would say the console version might put up a good fight...depending on how far CD projects has moved along with their engine.


This is an open world game

And CD Projekt Red already responded to somone who asked about maxing Witcher 3 on PC. They laughed and their response was, "Prepare to upgrade your PC."

Witcher 3 will be the Crysis of last gen. Only the absolute top end PC's will run it at Max settings.

Like i said depending on how far CD project has moved with their engine.

Im pretty sure il just need to upgrade my gpu to be able to run the Witcher 3 at near max settings plus maybe a bit of overclocking.

Theres a lot of settings that are very taxing on systems but dont do much for the visuals. Ubersampling really didnt do much imo and it was a massive hit on performance.

In any case the point of my post was to highlight that next gen consoles are better speced that your average PC's. I wasnt saying it will beat out a fully maxed out PC version. It will however probably hold up well. CD project are amazing devs.

We havent had a true crysis since crysis btw. A gtx780ti will most likely run the Withcher 3 quite well. The witcher games are optimised quite well, crysis wasnt.

Yeah I hear you, and I'm by no means bashing the next gen systems as I think both PS4 and Xbox One are awesome. It just seems to me from everything I've heard that CD is really priding themselves in turning Witcher 3 into a serious hardware pusher.  



BenVTrigger said:
Shinobi-san said:

Like i said depending on how far CD project has moved with their engine.

Im pretty sure il just need to upgrade my gpu to be able to run the Witcher 3 at near max settings plus maybe a bit of overclocking.

Theres a lot of settings that are very taxing on systems but dont do much for the visuals. Ubersampling really didnt do much imo and it was a massive hit on performance.

In any case the point of my post was to highlight that next gen consoles are better speced that your average PC's. I wasnt saying it will beat out a fully maxed out PC version. It will however probably hold up well. CD project are amazing devs.

We havent had a true crysis since crysis btw. A gtx780ti will most likely run the Withcher 3 quite well. The witcher games are optimised quite well, crysis wasnt.

Yeah I hear you, and I'm by no means bashing the next gen systems as I think both PS4 and Xbox One are awesome. It just seems to me from everything I've heard that CD is really priding themselves in turning Witcher 3 into a serious hardware pusher.  


Look at me talking about a 780ti and there i see you have one! Nice.

Yeah im all for the next hardware pusher...just not so sure its going to be the withcer 3. They just dont have that history. That being said the witcher 3 seems out of this world. Easily my most hyped game and i will no doubt be getting it on PC and upgrading my gpu along with it. Good times.



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