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Forums - Nintendo - The truth about Nintendo

 

What do you think about Nintendo's attitude?

Awful, they should fail i... 189 14.04%
 
Pretty Bad, they should l... 385 28.60%
 
Not bad, they're just as anybody else 188 13.97%
 
Good, we need more like them 389 28.90%
 
Excellent, they don't need to change one bit 173 12.85%
 
Total:1,324
Zod95 said:
DarkD said:

Look up the contract bit, its on wikipedia, I remember reading it ages ago.  Something about weird fine print being added that gave them power over Nintendo's licenses.

My question is general and to go to the root of the problem: Nintendo is not used to negotiate. See what they did in the 80s. They need a dominant position so they can "negotiate" properly.

 

DarkD said:

So what, they are just supposed to keep using the PC standard even when it will make a game console outrageously expensive?  Here's another standard which you may have forgotten.  200-300 dollars.  That is how much game consoles cost back in the N64 and earlier eras.  Why should they go higher when it will break the price point that's been maintained for so long.  It's Sony and Microsoft that went over. 

There are several PC standards. You have PCs for 300€ and for 3000€. The standard here doesn't have to do with low or high level but with type of architecture. 200$-300$? Put inflation on that: http://kotaku.com/36-years-of-console-prices-adjusted-for-inflation-1485353267

N64? You've just picked one of the cheapest consoles of all time. You call it the standard? The standard is around 400$. PS4 and even XOne are not expensive.

 

DarkD said:

Why do you need evidence that the gamepad is easy to program for.  Controls aren't exactly the hard part of designing a game.  Pretty much every third party that released on the Wii U added a few gamepad features then released it as a Wii U exclusive with a new subtitle.  Batman and Deus Ex being prime examples.  Developers couldn't ask for an easier method of making a game have exclusive content.

You seem to don't understand what a port to another console requires. You think it's just control reconfiguration. It's much more than that. Otherwise, GTA V woud have been already on WiiU along with many other X360/PS3 games that have been skipping the WiiU.

 

DarkD said:

If you want to define the norm, how about any game which does something risky that you might see in the indy market, but created as a core franchise.  Examples would be Boom Blox or Zack and Wiki: Quest for Barbados Treasure.

So, in your opinion, the norm is about risky concepts seen on the indie market but created as core franchises...what?

 

DarkD said:

Those would have never been core titles on the PS3, they were only made possible because of Nintendo's open minded audience.

And yes Sony audience is closed minded.  You've more than once categorized cartoony graphics as being less worthy than hyper realistic graphics.  You have spent an absurd amount of time trying to shoot down a console brand which is beloved by its players and for what reason?  Because they don't share your values?  Nintendo may be somewhat shitty to third parties, but to the consumers they are the most moral group in the entire gaming industry.

If Sony's audience is close-minded, how could a game like Flower be so much appreciated?

Cartoonish graphics are not less worthy than realistic graphics. You pulled that out of context. Read the 2nd reply of this post (http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6108102) to understand that I don't necessarily consider realism a greater thing.


Your first argument has been debunked 20 times over.  If you need a refresher go back over the 20 some pages of posts.  

Secondly, the SNES was 200 dollars, NES was 300.  Debunked.  Sony broke the price point and technology standard, not Nintendo.  Maybe you're just too young to remember...

porting things to other consoles is actually not that hard.  You know how many tiny groups of people there are creating their own ports of various Japanese games.  A lot.  The reason they don't like to port is because by their calculations its cheaper to just develop another game for the PS3 and 360 than to port a game over to the Wii that probably won't sell.  I'm a programmer myself, although not a game programmer.  i have made games before, but just small time stuff.  I know what the development process is.  

I'm not going back over the tonnes of other posts we have, but this argument was about whether PS3 allowed for more creative freedom or the Wii.  I put Zack and Wiki up as my example and stated that its a triple A game that would never see the light of day outside the Indie market on the PS3.  

Sony fans are closed minded.  We're playing games here and you can't seem to realize how badly compromised the gameplay has become on your console.  Look at the playstation era of Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and so many other games and look at their sequels fair today.  Graphics have killed those games.  

You constantly argue how great Sony's photo realistic graphics are and how Nintendo is screwing us over by not having them.  I think I have it perfectly in context. 



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Viper1 said:
Zod95 said:
DarkD said:

Look up the contract bit, its on wikipedia, I remember reading it ages ago.  Something about weird fine print being added that gave them power over Nintendo's licenses.

My question is general and to go to the root of the problem: Nintendo is not used to negotiate. See what they did in the 80s. They need a dominant position so they can "negotiate" properly.

OK, I'm getting tired of this.  You wrote this "article" about history yet you know very little of the actual details.  It's like you pulled together a bunch of fanboy rants and tried to pass them off as a researched and coherent topic.

"Nintendo is not used to negotiate"?  Thsi is your factual truths?  How about the factual truth that Sony's contract would have granted them full licensing and branding control therefore reducing Nintendo to largely a 1st party role within Sony?   Do you know this at all?  If not, and I suspect you didn't, you're revisionist history needs to end here.

What you call truth is actually nothing more than hedged passive aggression. 

Your statements are tinged with a tone that alludes to your personal feelings.  Even if you don't say something overtly, you mean it with your tone. 

Your "quotes around words" are nothing more than a mask to hide behind.  So you claim something doesn't really mean something and you're just using the terms allegorically but it's purely a ruse to allay bias. 

Your article is non-factual, filled with bias and opinion, laced with passive aggresive attacks and as the executive editor of a video game network, I'd damn near fire you if you tried to pass that across my desk.  Start again, remove your personal feelings, do some real research (you know, call, email, contact actual people from back then), look at both sides, write from the view of the reader and then try to publish.  

I'll give you credit for be able to write with proper grammar and syntax.  You're educated.   But your biased, misinformed/confused, and seem to have an agenda that you put above the integrity of truth.   And that is where you have failed. 



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

sundin13 said:

1. That the whole point...hes using that example to point out your double standards and it seems to me that you just admitted it >.>

Could you please elaborate on this? I didn't get you. As far as I'm concerned, he is using double-standard, not me.

 

sundin13 said:

2. Eye of Judgement: TCG + Camera
LBP: Generic 2D platformer with custom levels
Flower: Technically not a Sony game but i'll give you that one
Twisted Metal: Car Combat with dark shell
Eyepet: Nintendogs with camera
Singstar: Karaoke
Heavy Rain: Fahrenheit aka Indigo Prophecy (published by Atari and available on PS2/XBox)
Getaway: Never heard of it but it sounds like GTA to me
Destruction Derby: you mean this destruction derby? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_Derby
Not even close to being sony's game
Motorstorm: Just a racing game
Killzone: Halo killer

Of course Eye Of Judgment is a table card game, Twisted Metal is car combat and Singstar is karaoke...but they are refinements from what games?

Eyepet is much different from Nintendogs (it doesn't even have dogs). Heavy Rain has very little to do with Fahrenheit. Killzone is totally different from Halo.

"Getaway: Never heard of it but it sounds like GTA to me" - This one really made me laugh. It's like saying "Mario: Never heard of it but it sounds like Sonic to me".

Destruction Derby is indeed an IP from Sony. Reflections made the first 2, then they went out for starting the Driver series. Destruction Derby stayed on Sony. Studio 33 made another 2 and then they quit. Destruction Derby continues to be Sony's property.

Motorstorm is just a racing game...well, then Mario is just a platformer and Zelda is just an RPG. If we go that way, what game was not a refinement from another one?

 

sundin13 said:

4. Graphic Leaps are natural progression so naturally they don't count as innovation.

Also, Eyetoy wasn't really a risk, if it flopped it wouldn't really hurt Sony too much. It was too peripheral to matter. 

BluRay was self support. They used a format that they made to make more money...

PSPGo was a terrible decision..If you classify terrible decisions as "risks" then I'll give you that

So if Eye of Judgement was a risk...what about the pokemon trading card game?

Seriously, if you classify those things as "risks", then I don't see how you could ignore that motion control was a risk, 3D was a risk, gamepad controller was a risk, First Person Metroid was a risk, etc....

 

Cell was not natural progression. It was a terrific (for the good and for the bad) outcome of research and development.

So, because EyeToy was a peripheral and because Blu-ray was successful, they weren't risks? Then I don't know that a risk is...

Pokémon trading card game has only appeared after the game to be hugely successful. That's not much of a risk, is it?

Unlike you say, I acknowledge that Wii motion, 3D on 3DS and WiiU gamepad were risks and attempts for innovation. I never said that Nintendo doesn't try to innovate. They just don't try to evolve (and evolution is a different thing, as you have already said) at the same pace of the competition.

 

sundin13 said:

5. As I've said before...if AAA games were making tons of money, devs wouldn't be leaving left and right. You don't walk away from something that works but the AAA gaming environment doesn't work

EDIT: @"That's right. I acknowledge little merit on that. And it's easy to understand why: such games require little time, money and other resources but talent, they don't even require to go out of the 4 walls of the studios. For me, that's the easy route."

110% your opinion...I would argue that it is just as difficult to create a game with a unique art style than it is to just make a cardboard cut out of real life. One of them actually takes talent and creativity, the other is just looking outside and saying "I'm doing that!"

Also, as I've said 100x, Nintendo games frequently have longer dev times than the industry standard for photorealistic games...what does that say about the time/money/effort that goes into Nintendo games? 

EDIT: @Your quote on pokemon below: You are clearly implying that a more complicated game is a better game. i have already fully argued your point on pokemon but this is ridiculous. Making pokemon real time wont make it a better game, it will just make it a different game.

I've only touched on issues that I had already said enough. There's no point on saying it over and over again.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Viper1 said:
Zod95 said:
DarkD said:

Look up the contract bit, its on wikipedia, I remember reading it ages ago.  Something about weird fine print being added that gave them power over Nintendo's licenses.

My question is general and to go to the root of the problem: Nintendo is not used to negotiate. See what they did in the 80s. They need a dominant position so they can "negotiate" properly.

OK, I'm getting tired of this.  You wrote this "article" about history yet you know very little of the actual details.  It's like you pulled together a bunch of fanboy rants and tried to pass them off as a researched and coherent topic.

"Nintendo is not used to negotiate"?  Thsi is your factual truths?  How about the factual truth that Sony's contract would have granted them full licensing and branding control therefore reducing Nintendo to largely a 1st party role within Sony?   Do you know this at all?  If not, and I suspect you didn't, you're revisionist history needs to end here.

What you call truth is actually nothing more than hedged passive aggression. 

Your statements are tinged with a tone that alludes to your personal feelings.  Even if you don't say something overtly, you mean it with your tone. 

Your "quotes around words" are nothing more than a mask to hide behind.  So you claim something doesn't really mean something and you're just using the terms allegorically but it's purely a ruse to allay bias. 

Your article is non-factual, filled with bias and opinion, laced with passive aggresive attacks and as the executive editor of a video game network, I'd damn near fire you if you tried to pass that across my desk.  Start again, remove your personal feelings, do some real research (you know, call, email, contact actual people from back then), look at both sides, write from the view of the reader and then try to publish.  

I'll give you credit for be able to write with proper grammar and syntax.  You're educated.   But your biased, misinformed/confused, and seem to have an agenda that you put above the integrity of truth.   And that is where you have failed. 

Congrats man. But I still have doubts if this discussion will over.



I think the general agreement is that Nintendo is innocent of all charges, especially considering how much and how obvious the bias is in his argument. Any chance we can just get a mod to lock it here. Otherwise I don't think this guy will give up...



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Zod95 said:
theRepublic said:
are one of the few video game companies out there not consistently seeking to screw over consumers. And they do it all at a more affordable price point than Sony or Microsoft.

"not consistently seeking to screw over consumers" - read "1.4. Nintendo’s policies towards gamers"

"they do it all at a more affordable price point than Sony or Microsoft." - read "1.3. What Nintendo is willing to offer"

theRepublic said:
Why should I worry if Nintendo can make a bigger profit than Sony or Microsoft, even at lower price points? Why should I spend more money on a console when I don't have to?

You don't. If Nintendo has the most appealing offers for you, go ahead.

1.4) Both Sony and Microsoft have games that do not come to the PC.  Most of the rest is ancient history.

1.3) I guess the fact that the SNES, and N64 were the most powerful of their generations means nothing to you?  And that the GC was only slightly less powerful than the Xbox (both more powerful than the PS2)?

I don't have time to read the whole thread.  I'm guessing most of that has already been covered by others more in depth.



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Zod95 said:
As a fan of videogaming, what matters to me is that this industry produces high-quality games. That's what really matters. But quality is about how much a game is appreciated by each person. Then, it varies from gamer to gamer, because it is about tastes. Talking about tastes is going around in circles, it's not possible to argue on this field. .

This is largely why this will be my last post in this topic. This thread is largely about tastes, including your OP, so we're really just going to keep running around  in circles. 

The only contention I have with this thread is the skewing of the "facts" to argue truth. If this was an opinion piece, this thread would have a completely different landscape.

Zod95 said:
These real people were rendered to the game, did all the action scenes to capture their movements and did their own voices too. This whole process demanded a lot of time, interviews, cinematic preparation, performances, etc. But the end result was absolutely remarkable: an immersive game like no other on the 6th generation. 

I know your trying hard to be objective, but this statement rather subjective to be honest.They might have put a lot of effort into that game, but frankly I thought the game itself was rather mediocre overall, certainly not very immersive for me... We're somehow talking about tastes now.

And let's discuss immersion for a second. It happens many different ways... When I think of immersive games, for me I think of games like Mass Effect, Fallout, or Legend of Zelda... I could go into great detail why I think those games are immersive, but again immersion forms off of our subjective interests, so it's rather irrelevant.

Zod95 said:
 Like the OP says, they have always avoided what is massive money spending, monsters of uncontrolled quality, bold concepts that could become state-of-the-art achievementsNintendo games are nothing more than small and conventional fun experiences that can only be praised on a subjective analysis. Objectively, they are a nullity.


Honestly, I can't get over how rediculous this statement is... Again this is largely your opinion.

Zod95 said:
Not my criteria. As I said earlier, I disregard my tastes or the tastes of anybody else when talking about quality in a forum full of different people that have different perceptions of quality. Instead, I use objective criteria (universal truth) not to assess quality but to try to estimate it. You may find it good or bad, but it is indeed an estimation based on facts, not tastes. And even if you don't connect commitment to quality, that's fine, don't call it quality, call it commitment. The section 1.2 of the OP shows how commited Nintendo has been along the time.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree... 



Current gaming platforms - Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Wii U, New 3DS, PC

It has been 4 days and I'm still lagging behind the many and large replies to the OP and my posts. I can't continue to spend so many hours everyday and therefore I guess I will have to stop now. I'm very sorry about all of you that were still waiting for my reply, specially those that were making the first comment.

There were people that have understood and agreed with the message of the OP, others that didn't, either by not understanding it or by disagreeing with it. Some others could agree with some points while raising issues about others.

Some people praised me by the hard work and the outcome achieved eventually saying that I'm one of the most well-informed users of the forum or that I should become a professional journalist. I thank you for the nice words but I know there are here on this site people with much more knowledge than me and that could become great journalists. I'm only an amateur.

Other users had the opposite reaction, calling me biased and eventually claiming that this is a joke thread. Some told me that I was already marked forever by making such an "attack" to Nintendo while others have even tried to get me banned at all costs.

My goal with this thread was not to attack or anger anyone. I just perceived a chasm between Nintendo's actions and reputation and I felt the need to expose that in a forum full of people willing to debate, hoping that either I could prove Nintendo's reputation is wrong or Nintendo's supporters could prove me wrong regarding Nintendo's actions. Either way, the chasm would disappear.

Unfortunately, that goal was not achieved. Although the sources of the OP have been challenged (by not being 1st hand sources), none of the facts were proven to be wrong. The arguments were challenged too, but most of these attempts were misunderstandings about the OP. Others were subjective statements. Some users could manage to point out several bad practices from Sony and Microsoft but they were not even close to Nintendo's. Yet, most (if not all) of these users have maintained their positions. The chasm continues to exist either by disagreements on subjective points or by lack of willingness to see the truth.

All of you may continue to debate with each other, and I may eventually make some replies too, but I'm refusing now any commitment to reply to anyone that addresses comments to my posts or the OP.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Zod95 said:

Unfortunately, that goal was not achieved. Although the sources of the OP have been challenged (by not being 1st hand sources), none of the facts were proven to be wrong. The arguments were challenged too, but most of these attempts were misunderstandings about the OP. Others were subjective statements. Some users could manage to point out several bad practices from Sony and Microsoft but they were not even close to Nintendo's. Yet, most (if not all) of these users have maintained their positions. The chasm continues to exist either by disagreements on subjective points or by lack of willingness to see the truth.


That's hilarious.  There are plenty of "facts" that are wrong, but you never actually acknowledged them.

Pretty clear that you're the one who isn't willing to see the truth on an objective point of view.



MDMAlliance said:

That's hilarious.  There are plenty of "facts" that are wrong, but you never actually acknowledged them.

Pretty clear that you're the one who isn't willing to see the truth on an objective point of view.

...

I'll just point out the blatant lies: "Not letting any of their games to be launched out of their consoles (not even on PC) was a way to tell the consumer that, no matter what, Nintendo games will ever only be played on Nintendo consoles."

Ok, I will give you one chance. I'm choosing only one of your selected sentences as "blatant lies" (to not lose the focus of the point) and I challenge you to list the Nintendo games launched on PC.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M