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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

Kane1389 said:
curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:

You really are amazing. I simply adore how you single out blacks to make me appear racist and a bad person.

No, but seriously, can your strawman sink any lower?

Hey,  you're the one who outed yourself as a bad person by making the comment in the first place. You flat said you would support such a bill.

Well, at least I dont support slavery like you do. I mean, what kind of a human being supports slavery? What is the matter with you?

LMAO. Preventing bigoted discrimination against customers based on sexual orientation is slavery now. Oh my sides...



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badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

So basically what this tells us is....

 

Tim cook is a much nicer guy then Steve Jobs, who only wanted to take up for peoples rights when it wouldn't cost him any money.

So I guess corporate speech is a Good Thing™ this week? It's so hard to keep track!

I find it weird this is directed at me.

I'm always in favor of corporate speech.



Kasz216 said:

I find it weird this is directed at me.

I'm always in favor of corporate speech.

Not really where I was coming from with that since I know where you stand on speech issues. But I mean, I'm sure the "KKKORPORERASHINZ RNT PPL" crowd are really tonguing Apple's taint this week.

As an aside, I find it funny that the Kochs are always singled out as the most nefarious and right-wing extremist Buyers Of Our Glorious Democracy when they (a) are only the 59th largest donors and (b) have spent a lot of money in favor of state recognition of gay marriage.



curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:
curl-6 said:
Kane1389 said:

You really are amazing. I simply adore how you single out blacks to make me appear racist and a bad person.

No, but seriously, can your strawman sink any lower?

Hey,  you're the one who outed yourself as a bad person by making the comment in the first place. You flat said you would support such a bill.

Well, at least I dont support slavery like you do. I mean, what kind of a human being supports slavery? What is the matter with you?

LMAO. Preventing bigoted discrimination against customers based on sexual orientation is slavery now. Oh my sides...

Nah, forcing someone to work for someone is.



Well if businesses cannot discriminate against customers for these reasons, then there's no reason why customers can discriminate against businesses for these reasons. The only reason people don't bring up the latter is because this is all political pandering in an election year and doesn't really have any substance. I would love to see a straight porn actor have to explain why he won't do gay porn because he discriminating against gays. After all, it's just business and there's no reason why you should bring your personal beliefs to work with you right?

It saddens me that i even have to say this, but inevitably people will take this as an anti-gay comment and i am in no way anti-gay. I support freedom for businesses and customers, and that it should be voluntary on both sides.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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MonstaTruk said:
First, I'd like to say that I admit that this bill is rough/bold, in its wording. Welcome to the South. But I disagree with the connections to racial discrimination. This is all about...how someone has sex, right? No one HAS to tell anyone HOW they have sex. And no one has to be FORCED to like/dislike anyone. Now don't get me wrong: this bill will get turned around ASAP. I believe everyone should have equal rights. But my thing is that this doesn't HAVE to be a fight if you are homosexual. I mean, do g*ys where LBGT tags, or are required to tell receptionists if you're g*y? Keep your bedroom situations...in the bedroom. Simple patch?


Actually no, it gives people the right to discriminate based upon religious belief.  Ergo, you could have Christian's refusing to serve Muslims, Muslims refusing to serve Christian's, Jews refusing to serve both etc...  so on and so forth. 

 

Kane1389 said:
Tom3k said:
Kane1389 said:

This is nothing like segregation or jim crow, where institutions and people were forced by the goverment to discriminate against people. This law simply gives buisness owners  the freedome to deny service to someone they dont want have any buisness with. 

And you can fight ''bigotry and discrimination'' on an a federal level, but not on a private level. People should be allowed to have whatever beliefs they want, regardless of how you precieve them

Really? Nothing like segregation? If you're God fearing Christian it's against your religious belief to serve single mothers, divorced people, atheists, agnostics, muslims, jews, pagans, mormons... not just LGBT people. And do you really think that a business owner can afford to express his religious belief and deny sevices to all people against whom Bible has something to say. Of course not. They'll only hate on gays, because it's the most convenient. Like always good Christian hypocrisy.

If people dont want to serve those people and not make any money - they should be able to !!!! Nowhere does it even mention gays or any group of people, it doesnt even mention Christians!! It gives freedom to people to do buisness with whomever they want to. You and your kind just like to play the victim card while attacking Christians as usual (as if they are the worst offenders when it comes this kind of stuff. Try that shit in Iran and see how you'll end up)

People are allowed to believe in whatever nonsense they want to believe. That's their PRIVATE right, and that right should stay there and be PRIVATE. Your freedom, doesn't give you right to reduce my FREEDOM.

No one is attacking your freedom by denying you service at their own restaurant. The private buisness owneer can practice his private right in his private establishment. You are not required to be his customer.

That's the fundamental difference that bigots like yourself don't understand. 

Whats funny is that you are actually  the biggot here :)

 

There are plenty of theocracies out there for Christian's to 'shelter' in, if they're feeling overly persecuted (ergo, confusing equality with the loss of overwhelming power).  Besides, you're making great gains in Africa, millions of people dying daily because having AIDs is better than using birth control, so sayeth the Church.  Praise Jeebus.

Yeah, this doesn't attack anyone's freedom, just like not allowing minorities to drink from 'White' water fountains wasn't an attack on Freedom.



johnsobas said:
Well if businesses cannot discriminate against customers for these reasons, then there's no reason why customers can discriminate against businesses for these reasons. The only reason people don't bring up the latter is because this is all political pandering in an election year and doesn't really have any substance. I would love to see a straight porn actor have to explain why he won't do gay porn because he discriminating against gays. After all, it's just business and there's no reason why you should bring your personal beliefs to work with you right?

It saddens me that i even have to say this, but inevitably people will take this as an anti-gay comment and i am in no way anti-gay. I support freedom for businesses and customers, and that it should be voluntary on both sides.

What I find most frustrating about this whole argument is that it's being framed as freedom of religion rather than freedom of conscience, as if an atheist baker who finds homosexuality morally objectionable shouldn't have the same rights as a Christian one. Even the anti-SB 1062 crowd seems to, for now at least, concede that an actual church has the right to discriminate on this basis. They only object to a "public business" (as if it's not privately owned...) doing so. But it's very odd to me to grant the religious more rights than the irreligious, and it's equally odd to say that a tax exempt organization has fewer obligations and restrictions than one which pays taxes.

I suppose I should chalk that part up to the left's hostility to profit-turning and take comfort in the fact that the rest of it is all moot because it won't be much longer until churches are forced to perform gay weddings as well, so I needn't worry my pretty little head with trying to grasp the logic of it all.



mornelithe said:

Yeah, this doesn't attack anyone's freedom, just like not allowing minorities to drink from 'White' water fountains wasn't an attack on Freedom.

Government mandated integration is just as much an attack on individual liberty as was government mandated segregation. Just because you feel like the government is taking the right side doesn't change the fact that it is a coercive action.



badgenome said:
mornelithe said:

Yeah, this doesn't attack anyone's freedom, just like not allowing minorities to drink from 'White' water fountains wasn't an attack on Freedom.

Government mandated integration is just as much an attack on individual liberty as was government mandated segregation. Just because you feel like the government is taking the right side doesn't change the fact that it is a coercive action.

It doesn't matter whether it's a coercive action or not, it's in tune with the Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence which this country is founded upon.  You're more than welcome to disagree, or object, but the law and SCOTUS will uphold these principles, whether States like it or not.



mornelithe said:

It doesn't matter whether it's a coercive action or not

Actually, yes. It does matter when you're saying that it's not an attack on freedom.

I guess I missed the part of the Bill of Rights that said "all men are entitled to a cake from the bakery of their choice".